Strange question:
If something on a medical site or medical paperwork or whatever, says something to the effect of "in females, this is more likely to happen", does that still apply to us? I guess I'm not really sure what specifically about being female makes things more likely. To be more specific, I've got severe emetophobia (phobia of throwing up). I was researching about the percentages of people that feel sick after top surgery from the anesthesia. It said females have a 20% chance of feeling nauseous, and males have a much lower percentage. I'm not understanding which category I'm supposed to fall into anymore.

Quote from: AJarrah on August 04, 2013, 09:26:51 PM
Strange question:
If something on a medical site or medical paperwork or whatever, says something to the effect of "in females, this is more likely to happen", does that still apply to us? I guess I'm not really sure what specifically about being female makes things more likely. To be more specific, I've got severe emetophobia (phobia of throwing up). I was researching about the percentages of people that feel sick after top surgery from the anesthesia. It said females have a 20% chance of feeling nauseous, and males have a much lower percentage. I'm not understanding which category I'm supposed to fall into anymore.

What specifically makes this stat higher in females, your guess is as good as mine unless where you saw the state elaborates. According to Wikipedia (I know, not the be all, end all for reliability) "On average the incidence of nausea or vomiting after general anesthesia ranges between 25 and 30% [Cohen 1994]" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postoperative_nausea_and_vomiting) It also mentioned being female puts you at higher risk but doesn't say why. This article lists some interesting reasons: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2525506/ but mostly applies to motion sickness. It did mention that post-operative nausea was more common in people who get motion sickness.

Have you done any work on the phobia specifically? I had a similar phobia and used EFT on it (I went to someone who does EFT, because for whatever reason I wasn't getting results trying it on my own). I've also used EFT for a phobia of flying and was able to get on a plane for a 6 hour flight a week later after not flying anywhere for 16 years. I thought it was totally bunk stuff until that moment lol

Of course a stat is a stat,and most of them aren't worth a darn in predicting of individuals chances.

--Jay

Quotefemales have a 20% chance of feeling nauseous*

*According to the study we did with limited demographics and is no actual representation of the real world.

What a 20% chance really means, was that of the people studied 20% got nauseous. With some rewording on their part, it became a 20% chance for any female to become nauseous.

Soren, 
That is true of any study. It only gives results of the people studied.

Well, the phobia/anesthesia question was just one of the many things I've wondered about. For another instance, when looking at diet or exercise regimens they'll say some things are great for men and others are great for women, again I don't know what categories I fall into. I think I'm most curious what the biggest differences really are between men and women aside from the Y chromosome, reproductive organs and the testosterone vs. estrogen/progesterone levels (if there are any). I didn't think we were all that different, but I may be ignorant in the sense that I didn't care to learn about the female body growing up as I didn't feel I wanted to be female from God only knows what age, and what I have learned of the male body I don't know what all has changed in me to be the same. I guess I don't understand what it is specifically about the two anatomies that make different vitamins, minerals, medications, chemicals in general, react differently unless it is simply a testosterone level or an estrogen level.

What I'm ultimately saying is, I don't know at what points I'm supposed to sway toward the advice for the female body vs. the male body, because I "assume" there's only so much the testosterone can do, but I really have no idea. I don't even know if this is a question that anyone can answer, but I figure with how big this community is, someone might have a lot more knowledge than I do on the subject.

For things like diets, look into the male ones-- for good health, men need androgens, so most diets for men will give the body the nutrients it needs to make more; whereas a female diet is geared toward people who want boobs, not muscle.

You're pretty much male now when on T, within reason. Like you won't have the prostate or testicular cancer risks, and risk of breast cancer is a little higher than cis males after top surgery, and pre-hysto you're still at risk for cervical cancer, etc, but most other things you're now male. Diet and exercise included. You need more calories and you build muscle easier now.

The whole being sick after surgery thing is only a study based on asking certain groups, not really something conclusive. Also, with regards to being sick after top surgery, the risk is actually quite minimal. It's not major surgery and doesn't take long. It's a day surgery and most often under 1.5hrs. For the most part people don't get sick unless it's a particularly long operation.  Everyone is different, of course, but the shorter the operation, the smaller the risk. On personal experience I've had over 15 operations thus far, and the only time I was every sick afterwards was in an operation that took most of the day, it also required drilling the bone at my ear and doing a lot of work on my inner ear, which further affects nausea. Any other surgery I've had was under 3-4hrs and I never felt sick after.

Quote from: LordKAT on August 05, 2013, 02:46:55 AM
Soren, 
That is true of any study. It only gives results of the people studied.

I'm well aware.

I think the information that "you're now male" may be a little misleading. It can certainly apply for some things. I was curious myself on this one and looked up more information. Hormones certainly aren't the be all, end all, and there's definite physiological differences. I guess you never know when one of these difference might come into play in a medical capacity.

Here's a link that discusses some of these ....

http://drjamesdobson.org/Solid-Answers/Answers?a=ff773023-2693-410d-b9e1-662f6985be4e (I personally found it interesting that women have larger stomachs)

Quote from: insideontheoutside on August 05, 2013, 09:44:30 PM
I think the information that "you're now male" may be a little misleading. It can certainly apply for some things. I was curious myself on this one and looked up more information. Hormones certainly aren't the be all, end all, and there's definite physiological differences. I guess you never know when one of these difference might come into play in a medical capacity.

Here's a link that discusses some of these ....

http://drjamesdobson.org/Solid-Answers/Answers?a=ff773023-2693-410d-b9e1-662f6985be4e (I personally found it interesting that women have larger stomachs)

Interesting link but

Quoteshe outlives a man by three or four years in the U.S....

Life expectancy was equal before use of chemical estrogens in pesticides became widespread

QuoteThe sexes differ in skeletal structure, women having a shorter head, broader face, less protruding chin, shorter legs, and longer trunk. The first finger of a woman's hand is usually longer than the third; with men the reverse is true. Boys' teeth last longer than do those of girls.

I don't match any of the female characteristics in this one.

Quote...provides resistance to cold...

My mother, and all of my friends mother's, and several of my female friends start freezing when it's under 60 degrees.

QuoteWomen's hearts beat more rapidly than those of men (80 versus 72 beats per minute).

Depends how in shape the person being tested is. I've seen cis men anywhere from 40s to 100s RHR, same with women.

QuoteWomen can withstand high temperatures better than men because their metabolism slows down less

Depends on the person, where they were born, and where they were raised.

QuoteThe young men tended to carry them at their sides with their arms looped over the top. Women and girls, by contrast, usually cradled their books at their breasts, in much the same way they would a baby

I can neither confirm nor deny this, because up here we have things called backpacks. I would like to note that "cradled their books at their breasts, in much the same way they would a baby" would also cover belly fat, a sore spot for many females.

***

But I should make a few amendments to my previous posts:
For alcohol, you should stick to the female's designated amount, especially with anything containing hops. Unless you have the mass of an "average" cis guy, then you can get health problems from drinking the same amount of alcohol as them, but feel free to adjust if you know your tolerance level.

For diets, still stick with male ones, since that's what you want your body to be; however make sure there are no trans fats and little saturated fats, low in sodium; etc. AKA, make sure it's healthy.

For risks like driving accidents, nausea, etc- ignore them completely. Studies like that have no information of any worth in them.

For everything else, use some common sense. If the people of tumblr or youtube agree with you, then you're (usually) doing it wrong.

Yeah, anything like that is going to be generalizations from a cross-section of whomever they tested to come up with the statistics. But often it's one of those things where a majority showed a particular trait (still boggled by larger stomachs haha). Of course there's going to be variation. While I didn't luck out on the height department, I don't have the finger thing going on or the longer trunk either, for example. The unfortunate thing is that link came from a doctor's site, and probably the majority of doctor's buy studies like this. I mean, what one of the first things asked on a medical exam doc ... M of F. From there on out they're going to treat you a certain way. But, if you're really trans, they might find a few "quirks"

Quote from: insideontheoutside on August 05, 2013, 10:16:37 PM
(still boggled by larger stomachs haha).

All those poor dieters... 

The main differences really are male now with regards to risk factors of male VS female for which the OP was asking about.  That list only confirms it!  On T:

1) We also have a shorter life expectancy - hormonal
2) Hormonal
3) Metabolism goes up - hormonal
4) Shape differs in only very particular areas for definite, mainly the pelvis.  Everything else is only in general. Doesn't matter when referring to risk factors anyway.
5) In general - size is a factor.
6) Hormonal
7) Hormonal
8 ) Hormonal
9) Hormonal
10) In general - size is a factor.
11) Hormonal + body fat distribution with more subcutaneous fat under the skin - which changes on T.
12) Bull.  This example is more to do with following a trend along with strength.  Transgender boys/men would be more likely to walk, talk and act like men pre-T just because of the psychological effect of mirroring.  So it's nothing to do with anything on a cellular level other than strength - which then is affected when you're on T!   

Quote from: insideontheoutside on August 04, 2013, 10:35:11 PM
What specifically makes this stat higher in females, your guess is as good as mine unless where you saw the state elaborates. According to Wikipedia (I know, not the be all, end all for reliability) "On average the incidence of nausea or vomiting after general anesthesia ranges between 25 and 30% [Cohen 1994]" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postoperative_nausea_and_vomiting) It also mentioned being female puts you at higher risk but doesn't say why. This article lists some interesting reasons: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2525506/ but mostly applies to motion sickness. It did mention that post-operative nausea was more common in people who get motion sickness.

Have you done any work on the phobia specifically? I had a similar phobia and used EFT on it (I went to someone who does EFT, because for whatever reason I wasn't getting results trying it on my own). I've also used EFT for a phobia of flying and was able to get on a plane for a 6 hour flight a week later after not flying anywhere for 16 years. I thought it was totally bunk stuff until that moment lol

Looking up EFT right now, it looks interesting. You mean this Emotional Freedom Techniques thing right? I've tried working on the phobia in small doses and have vastly improved but the phobia is still severe. :/

Quote from: Jack_M on August 05, 2013, 11:40:42 PM
The main differences really are male now with regards to risk factors of male VS female for which the OP was asking about.  That list only confirms it!  On T:

1) We also have a shorter life expectancy - hormonal
2) Hormonal
3) Metabolism goes up - hormonal
4) Shape differs in only very particular areas for definite, mainly the pelvis.  Everything else is only in general. Doesn't matter when referring to risk factors anyway.
5) In general - size is a factor.
6) Hormonal
7) Hormonal
8 ) Hormonal
9) Hormonal
10) In general - size is a factor.
11) Hormonal + body fat distribution with more subcutaneous fat under the skin - which changes on T.
12) Bull.  This example is more to do with following a trend along with strength.  Transgender boys/men would be more likely to walk, talk and act like men pre-T just because of the psychological effect of mirroring.  So it's nothing to do with anything on a cellular level other than strength - which then is affected when you're on T!   

Plenty of individuals born as male don't have all the typical "risk factors" such as high cholesterol, high blood pressure, shorter life expectancy, higher basal metabolism, not being able to withstand higher temperatures ... just about everything on the list (btw I only posted the list because it was "interesting" and I was curious myself as to what medical professionals had down as the physiological differences). 

It's probably better if your medical professional really got to know YOU (meaning, they should also know you're trans) and your particular body, rather than holding you up in comparison against anyone else really. Sadly that's sometimes not the case and many doctors will do everything from diagnosis to prescribe based on generalizations, averages or statistics and not on the most thorough tests or getting to know the individual patient.

When you're trying to decide on your own, it gets more dicey. I guess you could go by statistics or what you read on a message board. I know it's a nice idea to think that your body is basically male (and you have the same risk factors) after you start taking T (I would love to make myself believe that), but the reality is you're artificially adjusting the hormones, on average, 5 to 10x past what was normal for your body (hence all the "warnings", blood tests, etc. - and this was a line my doctor told me almost word for word) ... which isn't the case for individuals born as male, and I believe that alone can create some different risk factors that don't fit neatly into the two boxes (male or female). That's just my opinion (and based on what my doctor told me). Some of it can be pretty obvious. Like if you're no longer having a shark week, your hormones are no longer fluctuating like they used to and you're not predisposed to all the female b.s. that went along with that. If you've had a full hysto, you're obviously not susceptible to ovarian cancer (and are no longer producing the same level of E that you were). If you're T levels are "normal male" then your metabolism might have changed. I really believe that it really depends on what exactly it is and isn't totally cut and dry when you're trans.

Quote from: AJarrah on August 06, 2013, 12:59:26 AM
Looking up EFT right now, it looks interesting. You mean this Emotional Freedom Techniques thing right? I've tried working on the phobia in small doses and have vastly improved but the phobia is still severe. :/

Yeah that's it. I really got the most benefit from EFT when I worked with someone else who does it. I only had minor success on my own. One thing I did find interesting when I worked with someone else was what the root source of the phobia actually was. For instance with my air travel phobia I totally thought it has to do with the mechanics of it all – I've always been worried about something going wrong mechanically with the plane. However, what it really came down to was a fear of being trapped and unable to "get away" from the situation (you're not going anywhere at 30k feet! you're on that plane, stuck there with everyone else, for the duration of the flight). When we got to that in the session, I actually started shaking and freaking out as if I was really about to get on a plane. I remember the lady saying that you always got better results when you could replicate the emotion. Well, that seemed to be the case.

Quote from: Soren on August 05, 2013, 10:31:09 PM
All those poor dieters... 

hahaha

Yeah because they're risk factors, not definites.  There's undeniable proof that there's greater risk factors but risk factor doesn't mean you have it - it's just a higher risk, and that we do have because it's something that happens at a chemical level to increase the chance.

I'm not sure how this factors into it, but there are still basic differences like organ size. Cis males supposedly have larger lungs and all that.
Basically, unless something's hormone dependent, I would factor us somewhere in between whatever response/amount for male and female to be on the safe side. (And even if something is T based system versus E based system related, we still may not function exactly as a typical cis male.) We're probably not going to have the exact same response to whatever as a cis male or female.
For the vomiting thing, you'd probably need to know why the females had a higher risk. Is it hormonal, psychological, to do with basic internal structure, etc?

In this instance, they're basing that off of hormones and not genetics (XX/XY etc. karyotype) or physiology. Pharmacological agents are chemistry. Your whole body is a chain-reaction of chemistry. Your hormones are chemistry. They all play off of one another. Ergo, its hormonal differences between male and female that they're talking about here. Your sex hormones can affect the chemical reactions to medications but not so much your genetics or physiology. In example, female hormones are responsible for why females get more migraines than males (I know for me personally, 100% of my migraines disappeared after T. Totally a non-issue now). Same difference here. Just one of those things.

So if you're allowed to take your T and don't have to stop it, you'll be better off there. However, you can and should speak with your surgeon about this. They can and should give you antiemetics. He/She can make a note in your chart for the nurses to follow up on that after, before you go home.

In my experience, the nausea does not last that long and its only happened once to me from general. Lasted maybe 20 minutes. But that could have been the really strong painkillers they injected in my IV before I left (eye surgery is a real ). Dunno for sure. But those antiemetics they can give should knock it right out before it can even start.

I got really lost in this conversation with all of the various points of view, but for what it's worth if anyone's interested, I had the surgery done, requested an anti-emetic in my sedation and had no problems