By way of "stealth," I think we have members who just want to go through life unmolested for who they are.

Too many of my friends here have suffered from irrational violence and hate.  That should never happen, but the reality is that it happens all too often.

I'm not really stealth, but I do have a pretty small radar profile.

I don't care whether someone else chooses to be open or stealth.

OK lets calm down a bit before I lock the thread.

What we were talking about was advantages and disadvantages and problems in going stealth vs non-stealth.

A good and important topic.

There is now an undertone of something else and I do not feel that is part of a healthy discussion for this topic.

If you wish to discuss matters outside of the post please post another.

I am very sensitive to peoples feelings on this and related topics.

You have my pm if you need to talk to someone.

Lets get back to topic please.

Otherwise it will be locked

Cindy

I was going to say GM, but Geex if you don't know me by now what has happened in the world

You know, looking back on it over the 40 years since my transition, I don't see total stealth as being that advantageous because sooner or later someone will find out and your cover is blown. When that happens, some people who were/are very close to you will be put off by the fact that you kept it such a secret and didn't share that with them (particularly spouses, boyfriends, etc.)

Of course you can't remain stealth with your doctor(s) no matter how well you pass because you need HRT and they need to know your background for your own safety.

If you are up-front with people (not in-your-face but honest) you will loose some potential friends but if they reject you for being TS, did you really want them as friends anyway?

Also EVERYBODY needs somebody to talk to, someone to confide in, and our past struggles are part of who we are, so you need someone you can talk to who KNOWS what you went through.

No matter how tight your "stealth" it is going to get blown sooner or later so just be honest with those close to you and, for those for whom it is none of their business, tell them so! Besides, it is much less stressful if you've nothing to hide.

JMHO

Stealth (to me) doesn't mean Never telling anyone no matter what the circumstances.  Stealth is living your life without Broadcasting who you are.

There will be circumstances where it is important someone (a particular person at a particular time) needs to know, but it doesn't mean telling everyone you meet.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on August 07, 2013, 09:02:39 AM
Stealth (to me) doesn't mean Never telling anyone no matter what the circumstances.  Stealth is living your life without Broadcasting who you are.

There will be circumstances where it is important someone (a particular person at a particular time) needs to know, but it doesn't mean telling everyone you meet.

Agreed. It's not problematic in itself that a few people know. I have 4-5 good friends who knows to keep their mouths shut and also understand why they shouldn't be talking about me to other people. Most people though don't understand why it is problematic for me that people talk.

I've confronted friends about it before and they were almost all generally surprised that I didn't want them talking about me. They don't think it's wrong because they see my transition and female persona as something equal to a hobby. They think of it as some kind of an interest I have, like skydivers and coin collectors have. Why would I possibly want to keep my hobby a secret? Isn't the attention part of the fun, right? At least that's how acquaintances who are in the know think of me.

It seems to me there is very little room between being stealth and being open. Either no-one know or everyone knows. I never ever ever ever ever ever tell anyone about my past, yet if I'm invited to a party or wedding or something it is almost guaranteed that everyone there knows about me. Even the people I've never met or even heard of before. Often, when I greet these people they realize I'm the TS they heard so much about and they can't help but start talking about it LOUDLY SO EVERYONE CAN HEAR IN CASE THEY DIDN'T ALREADY KNOW!!!! Sometimes they even know my former name and theyl go "Your name used to be xxx, right?" 

A few years back I moved out of the city to a quiet neighborhood. A few days after we had moved we was out in the garden having a few drinks with some friends and family when one of our new neighbors came to greet us. Almost the first thing he said was "So, you're the transsexual, huh?" and went on to talk at great length about all the transvestits he had encountered in his life. I was baffled that he already knew and as it turned out he is a friend of the landlord I had when I transitioned 10 years ago. The guy is a yapper so I think it's pretty much guaranteed that every single person living within half a mile knows about me by now. 

Quote from: MariaMx on August 07, 2013, 09:46:30 AM
every single person living within half a mile knows about me by now. 

I'm not sure what to say, but it's very upsetting. I experience vicariously a feeling of dehumanisation by reading this. It's absolutely not a hobby. It can be nothing further from being a hobby. I envisage smug faces and self-satisfaction from the knowing. If I were in your shoes, I'd be already changing my name, look and moving abroad. 

Quote from: Nicolette on August 07, 2013, 10:18:55 AM
I'm not sure what to say, but it's very upsetting. I experience vicariously a feeling of dehumanisation by reading this. It's absolutely not a hobby. It can be nothing further from being a hobby. I envisage smug faces and self-satisfaction from the knowing. If I were in your shoes, I'd be already changing my name, look and moving abroad. 

There aren't so many smug faces really. People in my country are very tolerant and accepting, but as they see me being trans as more of a hobby than a horrific medical condition they don't see any reason to be discreet about it. Mostly I notice by how they look at me, as if I'm the strangest object they've ever seen, or from the things they say that you just know they'd never say to a cis person. I will probably end up moving eventually, but it will probably take me a few years of planning and preparations. I can't just pack up and move to another country where I don't have work and a place to stay lined up. I'd end up on the streets if I did that.

Quote from: MariaMx on August 07, 2013, 09:46:30 AM
AI think it's pretty much guaranteed that every single person living within half a mile knows about me by now. 

Certainly true about my work and my social circles. I'm transitioning "in place" so stealth is pretty much impossible.

I have not transitioned from male to transgendered...I transitioned from male to female!!

Quote from: Just Shelly on August 07, 2013, 11:03:08 PM
I have not transitioned from male to transgendered...I transitioned from male to female!!

Haha!!! I absolutely love this post!

I noticed this thread is almost a week old but I haven't been to these forums in a long time, so I'm doing my best to catch up and be somewhat active here.

Anyway, the quote brings me right away to my bottom line on the topic. I've been completely open about my transition from the start, with everyone in my life. From work to family to friends to acquaintances. Not that I obsess on the topic or that I advertise that I am trans - I usually don't bring it up unless someone else does. From my experience, having been 'out' to everyone for a few years now, I do feel like a percentage of people treat me like a transsexual woman rather than a cissexual woman -- it can be glaringly obvious at times.

It's a difficult issue though because you never know from one person to the next, how they are going to treat you after you come out to them, or after they find out from someone else. Sometimes I just want to scream, "I am not a thing! I didn't transition to be treated like a third or other gender - if I was "other gendered" I would tell you! I am a woman! I might be trans but that doesn't make me any less of a woman than my hair color or my profession or the car I drive or what I ate for breakfast this morning!"

I learned from the start to keep my inner, irrational voice to myself. That's not to say my feelings were always irrational though. It can be very frustrating at times because no matter how much I (and those really close to me) feel that I am, or claim to be, the 'same' as a cissexual woman, I AM different because I have the lucky privilege of being trans and cissexuals do not. And arguing the point is often a fruitless exercise. I prefer to keep things as simple as possible, make any necessary clarifications and just be myself.

There have been more than a handful of moments where I've thought to myself, "I wish they never knew me before I started my transition!" or "I wish they never found out I was trans!" But I didn't feel that way because of how I looked or how I acted, I felt that way because of others insensitivity toward me and/or others validation, or lack of validation, of me as a woman.

When I started presenting myself full time as a female, I lacked the sense of self that I used to have when I presented as male. I lacked confidence and security more than I ever had, and I finally realized that was due to me being a woman rather than me being trans.

This can be a very confusing and intricate topic. I totally get why some people prefer to be as stealth as possible. I couldn't tell you which is better for you though I'm sure many of us here could write volumes on the topic and come up with an amazing list of pro's and con's! I only know what was right for me and I knew it without a doubt once I realized all things about my life that my transition was going to change and how long it would take.

I lost my job, I lost family, I lost friends and a community I lived in for 10 years. But I also gained family, kept some good friends, made a few new friends, learned to love myself and be proud of who I am. It means so much to me to be who I am now that I want to share it with everyone. And it's great if others can be happy and accepting of me, but it's more important to me that I am happy and accepting of myself.

I'll stop now because it's getting late and I said a lot more than I planned on saying. Haha!

Quote from: StellaB on July 31, 2013, 07:07:40 PM
I adopt a DEDD (Don't Explain Don't Deny) approach which has become a happy medium.

That's an excellent one!

Would love to use that one too, if you don't mind :-)

Quote from: Kaori on August 16, 2013, 05:06:25 AM
Haha!!! I absolutely love this post!

I noticed this thread is almost a week old but I haven't been to these forums in a long time, so I'm doing my best to catch up and be somewhat active here.

Anyway, the quote brings me right away to my bottom line on the topic. I've been completely open about my transition from the start, with everyone in my life. From work to family to friends to acquaintances. Not that I obsess on the topic or that I advertise that I am trans - I usually don't bring it up unless someone else does. From my experience, having been 'out' to everyone for a few years now, I do feel like a percentage of people treat me like a transsexual woman rather than a cissexual woman -- it can be glaringly obvious at times.

It's a difficult issue though because you never know from one person to the next, how they are going to treat you after you come out to them, or after they find out from someone else. Sometimes I just want to scream, "I am not a thing! I didn't transition to be treated like a third or other gender - if I was "other gendered" I would tell you! I am a woman! I might be trans but that doesn't make me any less of a woman than my hair color or my profession or the car I drive or what I ate for breakfast this morning!"

I learned from the start to keep my inner, irrational voice to myself. That's not to say my feelings were always irrational though. It can be very frustrating at times because no matter how much I (and those really close to me) feel that I am, or claim to be, the 'same' as a cissexual woman, I AM different because I have the lucky privilege of being trans and cissexuals do not. And arguing the point is often a fruitless exercise. I prefer to keep things as simple as possible, make any necessary clarifications and just be myself.

There have been more than a handful of moments where I've thought to myself, "I wish they never knew me before I started my transition!" or "I wish they never found out I was trans!" But I didn't feel that way because of how I looked or how I acted, I felt that way because of others insensitivity toward me and/or others validation, or lack of validation, of me as a woman.

When I started presenting myself full time as a female, I lacked the sense of self that I used to have when I presented as male. I lacked confidence and security more than I ever had, and I finally realized that was due to me being a woman rather than me being trans.
This can be a very confusing and intricate topic. I totally get why some people prefer to be as stealth as possible. I couldn't tell you which is better for you though I'm sure many of us here could write volumes on the topic and come up with an amazing list of pro's and con's! I only know what was right for me and I knew it without a doubt once I realized all things about my life that my transition was going to change and how long it would take.

I lost my job, I lost family, I lost friends and a community I lived in for 10 years. But I also gained family, kept some good friends, made a few new friends, learned to love myself and be proud of who I am. It means so much to me to be who I am now that I want to share it with everyone. And it's great if others can be happy and accepting of me, but it's more important to me that I am happy and accepting of myself.

I'll stop now because it's getting late and I said a lot more than I planned on saying. Haha!

Thank you

Although I don't necessarily share the same opinion I highlighted. Though I do feel less confidant at times, this is only because of the way I am treated because of my gender. This can be overcome by being more assertive...but I was not assertive in my previous gender...so I have an even harder time now. I do know and work with some woman that are assertive...some of them are not liked the best! I feel much less confident (secure) being trans....hence the want for stealth.

I think many that say they are proud to be trans may not fully support this belief themselves. If so, why take so much effort in changing appearance, voice, body shape, and the ultimate.... genitalia (for which no one can plainly see) if you are fine being identified as trans. Why even change your name???

This is my opinion...I'm sure there are some that disagree. You have the right to your opinion as well! Like I originally said....I did transition to become transgendered...is this how I have to define myself at times?...yes! Do I have to enjoy it? No! This does not mean I would deny who I am when need be....but I would not want or expect anyone to relate to me as a transgendered person once they knew.

I had this happen early on in my transition. My children's school counselor felt I would still prefer to be referred to as Mr or him because I told her I will always be my children's father....I would never want that to change nor could I in my children's eyes....for others I am simply their mother. I only found this out later when she referred to me as him to another teacher and this was really confusing them. I thought as a counselor she wasn't too smart. I had a talk with her telling her I am not going through all of this to still be referred to as "him" or "Mr"...I suppose I could of told her that she could refer to me as "trans" ??

Quote from: StellaB on July 31, 2013, 07:07:40 PM
I adopt a DEDD (Don't Explain Don't Deny) approach which has become a happy medium.

Kia Ora Stella,

The "Middle Path"...The Buddha's teachings in a nutshell   

Metta Zenda

Yeah... I don't think I'm going to be able to do the stealth thing for several reasons. I mean, yeah, it is likely that I may pass OK once all is said and done. But as was mentioned, I just don't think I could take the emotional burden of withholding something about myself from people. I always like being open with everyone. It is my problem. I am WAY too open. I'd feel as if I was lying by withholding information. Then there is the fact that I can't be stealth because my business clients would know about me. I'm not looking forward to possibly losing them when I start to transition. Then I also was asked to be an advocate by two nonprofit organizations for a joint project to stop discrimination against the LGBTQIA community and the "disabled," and that would require that I be public in front of the whole world, so I'm not even sure if I can handle that. So yeah... I'm trying to figure out the whole stealth or open thing, too. I guess I will find out eventually when it comes to that.

allthough I do hate the bull->-bleeped-<- like you girls do... I still need to be open.

If a boyfriend cant deal with being thought of as gay... he is not worth my time really.

I know how difficult it all is though... and I hate the prejudice just as much as you girls do!

I could care less what choice someone makes in this one.

What I can point out is that nearly every post op woman I have met does not talk about her past with other people. As a matter of fact she regrets her younger days when she was perhaps more open. Some of these women ran their mouths so much that they deeply regret what they did in the pre op days.

I sometimes see people say hey we had this girl in the community and then as time went by she no longer was part of it. They then go on to ask why that is.

It is natural people. Some people make their dreams come true and then move on to new life adventures. As they become women (in the eyes of the world) they have less and less in common with this trans community.

Katie

For me its easy, for those who knew me before I am out, for those I meet now I let them work it out or not work it out. I don't know how you would classify that. *shrugs* I am just being me.

Quote from: Katie on October 28, 2013, 09:32:46 AM
I could care less what choice someone makes in this one.

What I can point out is that nearly every post op woman I have met does not talk about her past with other people. As a matter of fact she regrets her younger days when she was perhaps more open. Some of these women ran their mouths so much that they deeply regret what they did in the pre op days.

I sometimes see people say hey we had this girl in the community and then as time went by she no longer was part of it. They then go on to ask why that is.

It is natural people. Some people make their dreams come true and then move on to new life adventures. As they become women (in the eyes of the world) they have less and less in common with this trans community.

Katie

Some of us aren't even post-op.. I've slipped away from the community, I'm busy living my life and see no need to advertise..

I am completely stealth, except for the five or six hundred people I have told, and anyone they have told, and anyone who looks at any social media where I have pictures of my previous presentation, or references and recommendations made to my old name. I am happy and comfortable living this way, though I know it isn't right for everyone.

10 days ago I came out to 20 friends who participate in a spoken word poetry group with me. Avoiding aspects of my past that would have outed me was preventing me from performing, and perfecting, some of my best work, and after spending 15 hours of intense emotion with them, it felt like time. It was cathartic, and liberating, to feel safe and accepted by these men and women who were already fond of me and admiring of my work. In some ways it may distance me, by making me more the "other", but my personality is adept at bridging gaps, and if anything they were warmer and more genuine, reflecting back what I felt.

I think it was that experience that gave me the final push to apply for a job (long shot, but truly my dream job) that would out me to about 2 million people more or less. I will find out next week if I get to interview for it.

I think what makes the decision for me is that 1) I feel a sense of vocation, or calling, that grows stronger every day; and 2) I am not the least bit bothered by becoming a representative "other" in peoples' minds. If they knew how "other" I really am, the transgender history would seem the most ordinary and least unusual thing about me. And that is something I have a gift for doing... people who know me, realize that there is nothing abnormal, threatening, or scary about transgender people, they are just "us" with slightly different struggles in their past.

When writing and speaking I try to keep the scale human and personal, and I hope and intend for many people to hear or read my work and hopefully be enlightened by it. I once intended to use pen names and to be completely stealth in all of my differences, including my trans history, but that was before I discovered how many people are hurting and don't have anyone effectively advocating in their name to the governors, senators, CEOs, church leaders, media. If I can be a little log in an enormous flood roaring down from the mountains, then I will be glad to float out front adding my voice to the roar.