Today I went out without my BF. I am usually with him when I am out so I maybe have gotten much prettier and bustier in the last month or so. And today I was walking down the Avenue and this guy stops and askes me if I'm working. I wasn't dressed like a hooker but he obviously thought I was one. It made me feel good because, ya know, I passed well enough to attract some John who wanted me to, uh, perform fallatio on him.

So maybe I think it is just a one-off or that the guy was stupid for thinking I am a woman. But then all these guys start saying Hi to me when I pass them or say stuff like "what's up baby girl" or "hey little mama!"Obviously I like this. But then this one guy starts walking with me and startes flirting and i thought it was innocent but he puts his arm around me and then started holding my hand and even kissed me. I shoulda said something or tried to hold him off but I prolly only encouraged him some how. It was weird cause I was dressed rather boyish and he asked where my GF was. I thought I was clocked but he just thought I was a dyke. Eventually, after like 10 minutes, I lost him.

It wasn't that bad and it is the kinda thing that could happen at ay bar. But most cis girls know how to hold guys off. I don't. I have no idea how to or to at least calm it down. I just ended up maybe flirting. I mean it was validating because I passed so well this guy really liked me and my voice didn't even betray me. Plus he kept telling me how pretty I am. I love guys and I love people saying I am pretty but I also have a BF and feel bad when this happens. It's great I pass so well and look pretty (though I don;t know maybe he was blind lol) but even though noting bad happened in the future another guy could be not so nice and much more forward.

So any you girls have any pointers on how to deal with men? Soon, I am going to start dressing a lot more femme and start showing off my boobs more. Plus I have only been on HRT for five months and you are supposed to get a lot more femme starting at six months right? I hope so. But it would prolly be good to know how deal with fesity men better. The only guy I want to please is my man! Love him.

I normally ignore them- the leering glances of men deep into their cups just don't do it for me *shudder*, and if I don't react to their words they give up.  For those few who don't understand body language,  letting them know that " my husband would love to have you join us " is enough to stop any ideas they may have. 

I seriously need a next move though....one day they may want to join 

That's kind of gross. No one should be invading your personal space like that. The only suggestion I have is clearly saying no or I'm not interested and pushing them out of the personal space bubble. If he continues and/or gets rough, find a crowd and get noisy with the telling off.

That's odd.  Where was your boyfriend throughout this?  I would imagine he would say something to get these guys off of you.  Was he there or did I misread something?

Getting compliments is okay, but two of the men are really pervy.  The guy that asked you for sexual favors deserves a big f off.  And the guy that started to follow and put his hands on you deserves a kick to the groin and a reminder that he cannot put his hands on a woman without permission.  Mace was invented for a reason.  I agree that body language and words are enough to deal with most situations.  However, the second guy here could have been a major threat.  I would have at least been very vocal about telling him to get his hands off and then pushed him off if he didn't follow through.  You never know where he could have taken things and we have too many assaults in the trans community already.

The other guys don't sound too bad.  Cat calling is unavoidable and the last guy was probably  just hitting on you.  For guys like that, body and verbal language can help you.  Also, you could come right out and say you have a boyfriend.  If he starts to harass you, then it's time to get bitchy and make a scene.  Likely that will embarrass him and scare him off. 

I need to verse myself at handling this, too.

Usually I just end up trying to be polite- which for some reason almost always comes across as flirting... I always end up digging the hole deeper. Bleh.

Like, what am I supposed to say when it's a friend of a friend and they insist on exchanging numbers? A sarcastic and/or elegant response that dodges the topic would be what I am after. I have a really hard time just saying "no" if they are being über polite and gentle.

By the way O/T

How flipping fun is flirting as a girl?? LOVE IT.

Now if I could just perfect the flirt-divert....

Quote from: Jennygirl on August 12, 2013, 12:10:13 AM
I need to verse myself at handling this, too.

Usually I just end up trying to be polite- which for some reason almost always comes across as flirting... I always end up digging the hole deeper. Bleh.

Like, what am I supposed to say when it's a friend of a friend and they insist on exchanging numbers? A sarcastic and/or elegant response that dodges the topic would be what I am after. I have a really hard time just saying "no" if they are being über polite and gentle.

Exactly! I feel like I dug myself into a hole. And prolly flirted a little but not a lot. The guy was gross...but polite. The thing is maybe I needed the validation. I was hanging out with this trans girl I know, and she has mental problems, but the other day my Bf was at the movies so I was hanging out with her alone and I dressed up nice and really showed of my cleavage and she kept making these comments that I don't pass and nobody in the right mind would think I am a woman and it really upset me. I was down for like a day or two. I feel like I pass but sometimes you need outside velidation. I mean I do have my BF and all so that should be enough but I don't know.

I mean it was totally gross and inapporpriate but I really feel like I should have did something but I was so happy that I passed so well that I just kinda flirted. In the future, I should do something or learn to not be so so nice and scared of offending.

But yeah Jenny being a girl ROCKS!!!!!!! Girl Power lol

Quote from: learningtolive on August 12, 2013, 12:09:08 AM
That's odd.  Where was your boyfriend throughout this?  I would imagine he would say something to get these guys off of you.  Was he there or did I misread something?

You misread it. I was out alone. It wouldn't have happened if he was there. Nobody hits on me when I am with him. He thought I was a lesbian at first and I did tell him I have a man.

Quote from: learningtolive on August 12, 2013, 12:09:08 AMI would have at least been very vocal about telling him to get his hands off and then pushed him off if he didn't follow through.  You never know where he could have taken things and we have too many assaults in the trans community already

I kinda feel like that's what I should do but I wouldn't push andbody maybe slap his hands or something. I am really not that strong to push somebody off. I am like 5'5 on a good day and 128 lbs. I'm tiny. So I don't want to anger somebody. I don't know about assaults in the trans community. I feel like I pass well so it would be because I'm a woman not because I'm a trans woman. I would never let it get far enough that he would start feeling around my crotch. if I'm wearig skinny jeans he'd barely feel anything anyway before I slapped him. I'm really small there. Like an inch. Literally. I never virilzed like normal cis men.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 12, 2013, 12:37:35 AM
I mean I do have my BF and all so that should be enough but I don't know.

That's nothing to be ashamed of. Every girl loves to get nice compliments. (No difference with cis girls!)

Unfortunately I have nothing of an advise to give. I've never been to that situation; and even if it might not feel good, I'd love to share that experience with you...

That said, it's absolutely unapropriate behaviour touching somebody who did not invite you to do so.

Yeah, I understand you don't want to escalate the situation.  Having said that, don't feel afraid to fight back if someone puts there hand on you.  Assaults happen to both trans and cis women.  The unfortunate numbers in the crime statistics don't lie.  It sucks we need to be aware of this fact, but we do.  I don't want to overstate anything, because most of the guys might not be problems and flirting isn't a crime, but those who put their hands on you are a problem. 

As for the other guys, if you don't want the guys to continue, body language and not reciprocating the flirting will usually be enough.  If he doesn't get the clue, you shouldn't be afraid to verbalize your discomfort.  Some guys refuse to take no for an answer and need to be shown that no does in fact mean no.  I haven't been in the situation myself, but I have enough girlfriends and grew up with sisters, so I have seen and picked up the usual dos and dont's. 

By the way, I was looking at your avatar and noticed how much your progressing.  Congrats!

the words "Don't touch me!" have always served me well

I would just ignore it. It is nice to get respectful compliments once in a while, but when they touch you without your permission, that is an absolute no-no!

If men do get too close, backing off or just briskly walking away is a good way to allay any potential disasters. While it is in our nature to love getting compliments,  we ladies still need to always be on our guard for some men who may have ulterior motives.

I have been in situations both good and bad when it comes to men. The important part is just learning to ignore it, especially when the men are just not that attractive anyways, or that you have a boyfriend already. Or even telling them that your married if needs be can be a good protection.

Quote from: learningtolive on August 12, 2013, 12:51:57 AM
By the way, I was looking at your avatar and noticed how much your progressing.  Congrats!

Thanks. I am hoping now that in three weeks I will be six months on HRT that I will progress a lot more. They say that changes begin at six months. I started getting miss'd at 73 days and I def look a whole lot different but I want to be a little prettier. What girl doesn't lol

But I feel like I let that situation happen and didn't do anything because I needed the vaildation today. I wish I could be like passing doesn't matter but it does matter a lot to me. Luckily I guess I pass since today happened. I am actually pretty surprised. I guess stuff like this happens to a lot of women. And that's the thing: they know what to do. They have been dealing with it for a long time. I haven't. In many ways when you start to pass really well you get this whole other set of issues because all the sudden you are a woman and there is all these things I don't know. I am realizing there is alot more to being a woman then just being pretty and sensitive and emotional. I need to be strong too. Oh the travails of a trans woman lol

Quote from: Catalina on August 12, 2013, 01:25:50 AM
I would just ignore it. It is nice to get respectful compliments once in a while, but when they touch you without your permission, that is an absolute no-no!

I know that but women deal with this everyday. But they know how to deal with it. I feel like I am the sudden a woman and have all the troubles a woman had but exactly zero of the acquired knowledge of how to be a woman in the modern world and how to deal with touchy feely men. I certainly doubt I am the only woman who is demure. But I get ya.

Yeah, being thrown into the den of lions is not fun. At first, when I first began my transitioning stage, I really appreciated the attention that I was getting. But it got me into some interesting situations, that is for sure~!

I suppose that learning how to respond to men's affections or disaffections will come with experience, time, and observation. The female body is a aesthetically pleasing and beautiful to the eye, so don't be surprised if you find that there are people who are just appreciating your self, even if it may primarily come from a baser desire.

I first loved the attention, but I realised that it was also taking away from my own personal focus. At the start we may desire that validation, but eventually and essentially, that validation will come from ourselves and that made me a stronger woman. For me if I am just not interested, I would just look the other way if some man is gazing at me. OR if they ARE staring at me in interest, I look at them and that causes them some awkwardness.

OR if they are on the street and passing their gaze, then I let them and ignore it. And if they try to somehow say things to me, I let it brush aside and continue on with my day.

Unwanted attention is just not fun, because it can lead to misplacement of affection ('leading someone on'), or danger, or just awkwardness. If you ARE interested, I suppose that you can just go for it, lol. But I also remind myself, am I familiar with this person enough that he won't murder me for knowing my personal history? And that can help me come back to reality as well.

I have also received the other side of validation: when men from certain cultures talk to my male friends or whatnot instead of me, because of either an internal sense of sex-segregation, or just plain 'women speak less serious than men' kind of deal. Or assumed roles, characteristics, or mannerisms - simply because of my womanhood (being told that ladies do not eat in the public presence of others, etc.). I end up feeling ignored, but that is the reality of womankind.

Some good attention though, is seeing men being gentlemen and opening doors for you, or letting you sit on the bus over himself, or being polite to you on the street or in a store. Those are positive, safe and wonderful acts of validation for women like us!

Umm, punch him in the balls?

Btw, regarding exchange of numbers... You dont have to give them the correct No. ya know .

Now I'm wondering how it would work to just explain, in frank language, why his actions are making you uncomfortable. Something like, Sir, I'm just going about my daily affairs; I have no time or interest in flirting, let alone cheating on my boyfriend, and to be frank your actions are making me very uncomfortable. Please be on your way and let me be on mine.

Being excessively innocent and a total airhead works for me. So far as a girl it hasn't happened (lol, I barely have an A cup and only because of the very stuffed bra, and I pass at best for an unfortunately unattractive girl, much older than I really am), but one summer, when I was, as a guy, working as a tourist guide, one or two people of each gender more or less flirted with me.

I was completely oblivious to it, kept being my usual nice and professional and clumsy self, and such, and relatively fast they thought I was dumb or something, or not into guys/girls (both false, haha), and gave up.

The key is not to ignore them. That may make them try harder, not to mention not everyone is able to simply ignore someone unless genuinely not noticing them (I can't anyway). It's to convince them by your actions that not only you're not remotely interested, but you can't in a hundred years begin to understand their intentions.

Of course with someone very pushy / very much in love that kind of strategy will fail, and then you'd have to say flat out that you're not interested. But I have a feeling it'll handle most.

I found a seemingly good tip on the web about talking to guys in a more human way, talk about normal stuff and they will see you as a normal human. I think it's true that guys do hype up women in their heads so that they really really like you. If you talk about normal stuff maybe that will change their perception and they can continue to talk with you more comfortably instead of pressing on and on and on.

I'm afraid that for the guys who always continue to press, there might be no other way than to be kinda rude.

Quote from: Jennygirl on August 12, 2013, 01:05:51 PM
I found a seemingly good tip on the web about talking to guys in a more human way, talk about normal stuff and they will see you as a normal human. I think it's true that guys do hype up women in their heads so that they really really like you. If you talk about normal stuff maybe that will change their perception and they can continue to talk with you more comfortably instead of pressing on and on and on.

I'm afraid that for the guys who always continue to press, there might be no other way than to be kinda rude.

That seems like a really good idea. I'll try it. I mean i want to be able to go out and not be hit one and harrsed by guys all the time. It seems really strange it even happened and guys find me attractive. I mean this guy thought I was really really pretty. He kept saying it. It was really validating. But it will get old and fast. It prolly won't happen again.

Quote from: ZoeM on August 12, 2013, 08:36:18 AM
Now I'm wondering how it would work to just explain, in frank language, why his actions are making you uncomfortable. Something like, Sir, I'm just going about my daily affairs; I have no time or interest in flirting, let alone cheating on my boyfriend, and to be frank your actions are making me very uncomfortable. Please be on your way and let me be on mine.

This actually seems like something I could do. I'm not big on physically trying to stop and won't be able to in any event. I want to be firm and strong but without being aggressive. As anytime I have been overly aggressive people just laugh.

Quote from: ZoeM on August 12, 2013, 08:36:18 AM
Now I'm wondering how it would work to just explain, in frank language, why his actions are making you uncomfortable. Something like, Sir, I'm just going about my daily affairs; I have no time or interest in flirting, let alone cheating on my boyfriend, and to be frank your actions are making me very uncomfortable. Please be on your way and let me be on mine.

Actually this one does work - since you do have a boy friend - it is a horrible thing about western society -the fact that you are "owned" by another man will get you left alone usually

this is a sad fact but it will help you get by - do use it

the other thing - do not engage if at all possible before you have to, as he was walking up to you and talking you should not have looked at him or acknowledged his existence at all, even looking in his direction allowed him to talk to you it was probably why he started

it is part of the maab training to look AT people while faab training is not to look people in the eye on the street and look straight ahead

do your best to completely ignore everything any one calls out to you as of they are not addressing you unless you actually KNOW them this is what cis womyn do if a man come after you run, blow a whistle, scream, throw your purse, kick him in some way draw attention.

be forward about what you don't want back.

Men like that are interested in submission, don't insult them but don't get walked all over.

As for the one that touched you? Call the cops. Anyone thats going to put their arms around you, hold your hand and kiss you when you don't even know his name? That's just a psycho.