Life is filled with many transitions. We can talk about the growing up through puberty transition, which can confuse us as to our identities which leads to the after puberty transition which due to hormonal levels varying from one person to another and educational and open minded guardians can or can not lead to the gender transition or the getting a job and no more playing transition which can cause stress which leads to the going overboard transition which leads to the recovery transition which can lead to the seclusion transition or the mental ward transition or the going from extreme to extreme transition which got started due to the religous transition which was distorted due to our misplaced spiritual transition but in the end we see that there are many transitions and they come in varying order for us all.


For some there are other transitions such as overcoming physical disabilities transition.

There is also the judging transition which teaches one that when we share to others we are the ones who need to hear when we are judging others, because we are the ones with the problem.

This is like the learning to give transition where one finally realizes that giving is not for the receiver but for the giver

The main point in life is that we are on the keep growing transition which keeps us in place with being true to self transition which takes us back to the topic.

Whatever you add to the list may you get the abilty to forgive and forget transition which may seem at first as if it for others but in reality it is for oneself.


Please feel free to add to the list of transitions.

I do not see it as any list, it is just a matter of seperating how much of you has been environmentally induced and what is natural to your inner feelings.  Once you have cleaned house you are in approximately the same shape as any mainstream person.  You just have to work those things out like everyone else in the world has to.

Terri

the point in my post is for early transitioners to realize that transitioning encompasses many transitions..

yes, it does in a way.  As it affects your outlook on the world and yourself as well as what past treatment by society has done to your social skills and almost every aspect of your life that will not go away with simply achieving HRT, RLT and SRS, so you must examine your life from first memories and the environments you were in to actually come to terms with yourself.

The treatment of the gender problem itself is actually small potatoes, that is simply a matter of coming to terms with what that itself means to your life.  For some, the gender problem itself has pretty much resolved itself before getting into therapy, there is so much more to sort out in ones self before one can be made whole.

Sadly thugh, there are to many though that will go into therapy as a way to achieve hormones and not persue it much later until they need a letter for surgery.  I feel sorry for many of those, they will miss out on many of the benifits of thier new life.

Terri

What is transition?

Is it simply having an external female appearence?

A female body?

Appearing 100% of the time as female?

Is it physical, mental or both?

Can a person truely transition with the wrong anatomy?

Is it possible to externally appear, have the correct body parts, live 100% and still not be transitioneD?

Actually, I think that is the case in all to many

Quote from: Leigh on December 04, 2005, 09:54:14 PM
What is transition?
Is it simply having an external female appearence?
A female body?
Appearing 100% of the time as female?
Is it physical, mental or both?
Can a person truely transition with the wrong anatomy?
Is it possible to externally appear, have the correct body parts, live 100% and still not be transitioneD?

A full gender transition is mental, physical, and emotional.  Just having the appearance or requisite parts is not enough, though I don't see how someone can fully transition with the wrong anatomy.  I'm certain there are people who have gone through all the physical steps of transition but haven't made the mental or emotional leap.  In fact, some people transition only to find that still have gender dysphoria, that is, they've gone too far.

Dawn

I know many people believe it is possible and some say they have achieved it, but I fail to see how anyone believing themselves being female can truely be at one with such if they retain male anatomy.  In doing do, they are under many restrictions that surgery would free them of, and everytime they look at themselves are reminded they are anatomically different from females.

I can understand how some could feel they have achieved oneness, but all it takes is for a group of woman friends to go to or just get into a nudity situation, and then and there they are excluded from any further activity with thier friends.  A person who has not transitioned the body still has a secret, something to hide and I fail to see how they can be comfortable living yet another lie, constantly fearing discovery.

If one wants to be something other then pure man or woman I got no complaints about that, but it will never be woman to me, not in an unconditional sense.  Ftm's have different circumstances and I can understand thier not having bottom surgery.  for them it is lot more money then for MtF and nowhere near the physical results to be worth it for many, but use it or not, women have vaginias, not penises.

I'm not looking to get into the age old arguments about this, it is just my personal feelings

Terri

Quote from: Terri-Gene on December 06, 2005, 02:09:47 AM
I know many people believe it is possible and some say they have achieved it, but I fail to see how anyone believing themselves being female can truely be at one with such if they retain male anatomy.  In doing do, they are under many restrictions that surgery would free them of, and everytime they look at themselves are reminded they are anatomically different from females. 

An issue I am dissecting very carefully right now since my GRS is only 40 days away.  I have a number of fears about surgical complications, the time-intensive aftercare which can take several hours a day at first, loss of function, but my final conclusion is that all worthy goals require sacrifice that it will be worth it.  It has been harder than facing FFS which seems illogical because GRS goes unseen, surgery to the face is a powerful change visible to everyone.  I don't fully understand that yet.  But I agree, how can you feel completely like a woman with that thing there?  I can't.

Dawn

Hi Danielgrl-

Sorry i think you miss the piont. Transitition is not change. The two are quite different.

~Kristina~

Getting back to the topic of late transitions, age obviously brings a mixture of positives and negatives. One thing I've wondered about is how older men whofully transition and then find that some things, like hair, just aren't as good as genetic womens' hair.  Oh, we rationalize that many older women don't have good hair and sometimes we are content with that thought.  Wearing a wig, to most post op TS's, is to be avoided -- it's a monicker of something we know to be fake.  Again, we know that GG women wear wigs - why else would there be so many wig shops.  But it is fakery to us.  Even wearing makeup, to some TS's is a fake thing....they want to be recognized as women even without makeup.  We don't have the freedom that GG women to have to think it's just a beauty aid.  We recognize it as a deception.  I sometimes wonder how many TS's who transition in thier forties and fifties end up unsatisfied because, after all the work, pain and money, they're still not, in their minds, FULLY women.  To that, I'd say that they should consider that the cosmetic and clothing industry preys on GG women, telling them to buy this or that because it "makes me feel feminine."  I rarely have seen male products as being described as making you feel "more masculine."  To be a woman, then, is to have society always leaning on you as being incomplete...unless you buy this!  So, older TS's, be mellow.  Even GG women are made to feel less female....all in the name of making money.

Quote from: Teri Anne on December 17, 2005, 02:25:48 PM
Oh, we rationalize  ----sometimes we are content with -----we know to be fake.  ----we know that GG women wear wigs - -us. -----  We don't have the freedom  ------We recognize it as a deception.

Just who is the we & us that you are referring to?

QuoteSo, older TS's, be mellow.

Mellow--not in a million years youngster.   Mellow does not take chances nor succeed.  Mellow goes along to get along.  Mellow goes with which ever way is the easiest.

I happen to be one of those whose makeup is absolutely minimual.. I can fit all I own in my coat pocket.  I don't buy into the conformity syndrome that is ladeled out by the fashion industry and men in particular or for that matter what some in the tg community view as a female presentation.

Leigh

The "we" can be, but isn't necessarily, anyone who transitions.  I agree that using "we" carries inherent risks of generalization so let me modify that "we" to "some of us who've transitioned."  Transitioning has a goal for most of chipping away, as Michaelangelo did on David, all the things that you feel aren't the real you.  For me, I find that a lot of the things that women are urged to do by society (and by most makeover shows on TV) are to present an overtly feminine depiction.  It doesn't seem to matter that high heels, hair, makeup are essentially EXTERIOR treatments....what Frank Lloyd Wright referred to in buildings as "applied ornamentation."  Some gender therapists advocate that TS's in transition wear dresses despite the fact that many, if not most, women wear pants, simply for comfort.  It is this societally programmed image of what women should be that I object to.  Though I'm post op, I realize that I will never be a perfect image of womanhood, but I will be the best that I can try to be.  I am thought of as an average woman by strangers and, for me, that is enough for me. 

My stating that older TS should try to be mellow was another way of encouraging that we, having transitioned, should try to find peace.  We've gone through the ordeal of transition and we should, at this point, try to find comfort and peace.  One way of achieving that peace is to not torture ourselves regarding what we feel is bad about our appearance.  The comfort, for me, comes with the realization that genetic women are tortured to feel bad about themselves in order to make them purchase products. If you achieve happiness by not being mellow, then I say, go for it.  Whatever way that peace comes for you, individually, is good.  Everyone walks a different road.

Quote from: Teri Anne on December 17, 2005, 02:25:48 PM
Getting back to the topic of late transitions, age obviously brings a mixture of positives and negatives. One thing I've wondered about is how older men who fully transition and then find that some things, like hair, just aren't as good as genetic womens' hair. <snip>  Even wearing makeup, to some TS's is a fake thing....they want to be recognized as women even without makeup.  We don't have the freedom that GG women to have to think it's just a beauty aid.  We recognize it as a deception.  <snip>

Pardon me whilst I butt in here.  I only recently decided to explore the path of transition.  One of the things I've enjoyed doing is creating in my mind the kind of woman I want to look like.  It's funny you should mention hair and makeup...

I've never found makeup on GG women to be all that attractive, preferring the all-natural look.  In my mind, I picture myself the same way.  Same with hair that had to be wrangled into a particular shape.  I'm shooting for something that is obviously feminine, but doesn't look like I spend two hours a week at the beautician.

Rather, I want to shoot for the spunky, don't-give-a-damn-what-others-think, fun-to be-with young-at-heart older lady look.

As an aside, I'm planning on taking pictures of my face from several angles and then using a graphics program to pre-visualize different looks...

But what you said in that post sounded very much like my own thought process, so I had to chime in.

First off I don't consider makeup to be fakery. Personally I like the ability to cover up the occasional zit with a little concealer. I'm not being fake I just don't like people staring at my zit. Otherwise I often go out with very little if any makeup on and I haven't even fully transitioned yet. So this we generalization thing is just that, a very broad generalization. If you don't believe that, I'm sure Teri will chime in anytime now and set you straight on that point.

As to wigs, if you don't have a lot of hair then a wig is a must. Jeez If you have no teeth are you going to go around toothless or get some dentures. It doesn't make you a fake it's just a practicality, especially if you want to chew anything. GG, TS it doesn't matter. Everybody is wearing a mask of one sort or another, it doesn't make you a fake.

Cassie

Cassie, I thought I had already withdrawn the "we" and changed it to "some who transition."  I don't see any need to tell me it's a generalization to use the word "we" when I had already pointed out that it was an erroneous generalization. Please don't threaten me that a "Teri" in the group will smack me down for this error...especially when I already admitted fault.  I realize it may be said in jest but I'm sure you know that we all have tough enough lives on the outside without getting threats here.

I ended up my last paragraph indicating that people take different roads.  Thus, anyone who derives pleasure in using makeup, wigs, nail polish, or whatever -- more power to you.  Sometimes, I too, enjoy makeup and nail polish.  I'm not saying it's bad - it can be fun.  I wish guys were free to use these things.  I sometimes smile if I see a teenage guy breaking those gender laws.  I know there is something in me though that may be different than most TS's.  I tend to rebel against societally imposed suggestions on how to act as a woman.  I told my psych during transition that I did not wish to wear dresses because (1) no females at work wore dresses and (2) I felt it wasn't me.  For the most part, I am a content post op but I do have rare moments wherein I have self doubts -- am I feminine?  However, as I pointed out, genetic women face the same dilemma when they watch womens' advertising on TV or in magazines -- they are told, "buy this in order to feel feminine...to feel like a woman."  To equate wearing makeup or wigs to wearing false teeth is comparing apples to oranges....false teeth, as I'm sure you know, have no gender inference.  I was talking of exterior things that make women feel feminine and how advertisers use this to push products...promoting, in essense, feelings of inadequacy if you don't present yourself in a certain way.  I was also talking of how this talk of exterior things doesn't seem to go on as much in the male world...in buying a sports car, it's never mentioned that you should buy it to be male...rather, it's inferred...they often indicate, buy this and the pretty women willl surround you...a much subtler way of telling them aloud, "it'll make you feel masculine."   It's interesting to me how mass media chooses to sell to the sexes.

'Good Early morning Terri Anne.  I'm another of that "mellow" older type, being 55.  I also do not wear makeup. or fancy things to make myself more "feminine".  Well, thats not intirely right, I keep a short eyeliner pencil and a brow pencile in my pocket.  And of course I brush out my hair and line my eyes to make me beautiful.  Some years ago I did use full makeup but I found it smears in the sun, melts in the rain and so I quit using it.  I wear my liner everywhere I go so sorry about all that makeup.

I've met a lot of other women in older ages who makeup the same and none of us feel like we are missing out on anything.  I think you get the need to wear makeup and wigs from the CD set for the most part.  It would take a half dozen of somebodies to force a wig on my head and for clothing, I have a preference for jeans and leather.  NObody calls me cute and all that, but being treated like a lady is mostly expected these days, in public and at work.   You should hang out with some of us old stock, you might learn most arn't what you think in the cosmetic department.  Well, not those that aren't into men that is.  Cosmetics and clothing, a couple of us at least wouldn't exist in the conception of that post, and I realize you clarified it but it just didn't fit a great many at all.

Afraid you will find most of the older women here are not so into makeup as your post on this would suggest.  We like to look like ourselves and simply are not into it.  And this applies to cloths as well.  You would get more agreement with CD's about makeup then you would with older TS's in here, as we are who we are, not fashion modles and some would puke at the thought of being attractive to men.  Women see us as one of them so we simply have no fuss in that department and concider the thought that we feel we need makeup to be an insult.  Such a post would apply more to the younger crowd then it does to those over 50 in my opinion and from what I see in one of the heaviest segments of transgendered/Transsexual people in the U.S.A.

Terri

QuoteSorry i think you miss the piont. Transitition is not change. The two are quite different

hmmmmm, to bad you couldn't go back and talk with me 15 years ago, I could easily bet on the fact that you would be screaming for a change in me, which has happened, but only because of transition.  me of then and me of now are night and day.  The change in attitudes and actions is self evident to older friends who still associate with me and I'm not talking about gender stuff, just in the way I am and do which has been affected ultimately by transition more then any thing else in life.  It's the difference in thinking I was a woman or I was crazy and I'm not crazy, I simply couldn't keep going with my mind on a male circut.

I do believe in change of spirit and soul and I believe That only transition could have affected that change because I absolutely did and I'm not done changing yet.  Thats life.

Some people refuse to accept the idea of transition changing their mental/emotional life because they like to say they have been a woman all thier life and are just changing thier body, well, despite that little girls grow up some day if they are lucky they definately do change.

Terri

Quote from: Terri-Gene on December 18, 2005, 02:30:09 AM
Some people refuse to accept the idea of transition changing their mental/emotional life because they like to say they have been a woman all thier life and are just changing thier body, well, despite that little girls grow up some day if they are lucky they definately do change.

I've felt this and I've also come to realize that it's dishonest.  As I've transitioned, my past has changed so that in my memories, I was always female, a girl and then a woman.  My therapist says this is healthy and I think it is.  I think it's the truth, I always was female.  But you can't deny or ignore the years of denial and trying to fit in.  Female or not, I tried to live part of my life as a man and so my world view is different than most natal women.  As I transition, the changes have involved much more than changes in body.  While I feel just like the same person, there has been a tremendous shift within me spiritually and emotionally.  I don't know how anyone could transition and not feel changed.

Giving up all the male artifice I had built up over the years to protect this secret is sometimes challenging.  I think that is why many MTFs are hostile towards men: having lived in that world for so long, knowing how many of them view women, it's hard not to be hostile.  I've also tried to stop making generalizations about men because it isn't fair.  Good men do exist, they're just not that easy to find. 

The rest, the makeup and wigs, is all superficial stuff.  Plenty of older transwomen need to wear a wig because time has been unkind; I don't consider that fakery.  I don't have much use for makeup and I dress in jeans and shirts.  I still think I look like an idiot in a dress and probably always will.  I am sometimes tempted to go really femme but realize that isn't who I am and I don't wish to trade faking male for faking someone else's idea of female.

Dawn

Teri

Rather than telling us about yourself in bits and pieces in different posts why not go to the introductions forum?

The members here cover every initial that describes anyone who is gender variant, cd to post op and people who live as their natal birth sex/gender.  Timewise some are very new such as yourself and others have been here longer than you state that you are post.

Leigh