I have taken the last 2 years to sort it all out gathering viewpoints from conservative fundamental christians to liberal progressive christians. I have come to see some widely varying beliefs and opinions. I have also seen some and been directly emailed in these regards. Some have outrighted denied the existance of intersex people while others have denied that Euncuhs in the bible are some sort of gender variant person.


Where I personally stood just 3 years ago was that a person with an intersex condtion was someone influenced by the fall of man. That these things happen due to a sinful world and nature and it was a form of demonic opression. I used to think being transgender was pure direct demonic influence as well as having a differernt orientation. I never ever hated anyone that was lgbtqqi before at all, never did anything to hurt or try to tell them to stop, i didnt consider it to be any of my business and that it was between them and God.


Thank the Lord that I have been made aware of certain medical and spiritual and personal struggles that people go though. Thank goodness that I got to meet real holy fruited people that just happen to be some variation of lgbtqqi and also were of the same faith. It was a wonderful eye opener.

Of course as you all know i found out I was intersex too. And on top of it all dealing with gender confusion in my heart and mind. But I am still amazed today how people react to people.

I mean here we have folks born with intersex conditions and no one can deny the medical truth of it all and yet we have people (like my mom unfortunately and joel osteen also) that deny that these things are real and shrug it off as man made up information.

Same can be said for those who are transgender and transsexual and gay lesbian or bisexual, pansexual or genderfluid. It seems to me that these things are more in the mind and body and can be confirmed medically speaking to various degrees.

I see no demons here anymore. I pray other Christians will stop seeing demons as well. 

Sadly though this issue is starting to become a wedge between me and my family and former friends. When I'm exposed to the way I was those tapes start playing.in my head again questioning whetherim making the right choice.

Jesus said it bluntly and once and for all. "Take up YOUR Cross and follow Me!!"  "No man comes to the Father but by being as I have been, a follower, lover and believer to my end and new beginning!!"

We are specifically called to not follow the way of man, only the way of the Son Of Man.

To others the statement of our lives one by one "I am lifting my cross of ________ to my shoulders and following the Great Master of my faith and no one else."  "I go in peace to love and serve my Lord." 

With that we leave behind all who would distort those elements to their will being greater than God's will in our lives. 

The Peace of the Lord be always with you.

thank you vicky for being a good example

Shawn,

You post an interesting topic. One that is misunderstood by so many. What a Christian believes when the Lord Jesus of Nazareth himself said not all who say they are Christ are Christ.

To start there are false ministers out there who are no closer to God than their master Satan. Men and women who have twisted the word of God for personal gain or glory. people who could not care less about your soul.

According to the word of God the final authority in all matters is the word of God. Kings were commanded to keep it with them and all who are Christians are to meditate in it day and night and teach it to their children. People like Joel Osteen only care about a dollar and will tell you anything you want to hear to keep the money coming in. Their views subtly change with the multitudes to stay popular and make money.

As for as contemporary Christians, the left, the right, conservative and such they are man made terms not even in the word of God. Like the words homosexual, gay and such. No where to be found. All just terms that either water down the word of God or used to justify a sin or a means of self-glory.

The word says they were first called Christians in Antioch.

Not conservative Christians. Not contemporary Christians. Not gay Christians or straight Christians. Just Christians.

Christians in the word of God were those who believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God. They were baptized in water and then baptized with the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Two separate baptisms. They spake in tongues as the Spirit gave utterance and searched the word daily to see if the things Paul taught were true. They didn't just believe every person who came along claiming to be a minister or anointed.

Christians had signs and wonders following what they believed. They had dreams and visions verifying their belief. One young lady here had such. It was verified by me and both of us had the dream 30 plus years before we met. Both she and I cold tell each other parts of that dream that the other never spake to verify both had the same dream. That dream was and is still crystal clear after all these years.

Christians are those who follow the whole word of God just as Jesus said. They don't twist it to justify what they want. The believe both the good and the bad about their beliefs and change their beliefs to be obedient unto the word. They do not change the word to justify their beliefs.

Christians are led of the Spirit of God and not the teachings of man that go against the word of God.

When Christians do indeed follow the word of God in obedience and are led of the Spirit they will know the truth and the truth shall set them free. Free of false teaching, unnecessary condemnation and free of perverting the word of God and end up being damned.

I hope this helps. These things define a Christian by the word of God. Faith in Jesus, belief of the whole word of God and baptism of the Holy Ghost and being led of the Spirit. Walking in obedience unto the word of God and denying one's self.

May God bless.

Quote from: Del on August 16, 2013, 02:11:18 PM
Shawn,

You post an interesting topic. One that is misunderstood by so many. What a Christian believes when the Lord Jesus of Nazareth himself said not all who say they are Christ are Christ.

To start there are false ministers out there who are no closer to God than their master Satan. Men and women who have twisted the word of God for personal gain or glory. people who could not care less about your soul.

According to the word of God the final authority in all matters is the word of God. Kings were commanded to keep it with them and all who are Christians are to meditate in it day and night and teach it to their children. People like Joel Osteen only care about a dollar and will tell you anything you want to hear to keep the money coming in. Their views subtly change with the multitudes to stay popular and make money.

As for as contemporary Christians, the left, the right, conservative and such they are man made terms not even in the word of God. Like the words homosexual, gay and such. No where to be found. All just terms that either water down the word of God or used to justify a sin or a means of self-glory.

The word says they were first called Christians in Antioch.

Not conservative Christians. Not contemporary Christians. Not gay Christians or straight Christians. Just Christians.

Christians in the word of God were those who believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God. They were baptized in water and then baptized with the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Two separate baptisms. They spake in tongues as the Spirit gave utterance and searched the word daily to see if the things Paul taught were true. They didn't just believe every person who came along claiming to be a minister or anointed.

Christians had signs and wonders following what they believed. They had dreams and visions verifying their belief. One young lady here had such. It was verified by me and both of us had the dream 30 plus years before we met. Both she and I cold tell each other parts of that dream that the other never spake to verify both had the same dream. That dream was and is still crystal clear after all these years.

Christians are those who follow the whole word of God just as Jesus said. They don't twist it to justify what they want. The believe both the good and the bad about their beliefs and change their beliefs to be obedient unto the word. They do not change the word to justify their beliefs.

Christians are led of the Spirit of God and not the teachings of man that go against the word of God.

When Christians do indeed follow the word of God in obedience and are led of the Spirit they will know the truth and the truth shall set them free. Free of false teaching, unnecessary condemnation and free of perverting the word of God and end up being damned.

I hope this helps. These things define a Christian by the word of God. Faith in Jesus, belief of the whole word of God and baptism of the Holy Ghost and being led of the Spirit. Walking in obedience unto the word of God and denying one's self.

May God bless.

I read this and was left wondering what the word of god was when it comes to LGBT individuals, in your opinion of course.

I'm sorry if my method of answering was not clear but that is my point of course.

When a person truly believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for their sins they will not only confess such but use the whole word of God in their lives and beliefs.

The Spirit of God will guide them and verify through others as ell as the signs and wonders that they are indeed following the Lord and the right Spirit. They will know that what they believe is right as revealed by the Spirit. That means it really doesn't matter what the multitudes believe nor the false prophets teaching lies. They will know they are either right or must change to suit the word of God.

As for what a Christian believes about GLBT matters the Spirit of God will show them Not a false prophet, a popular minister or the multitudes. All of my answer is scripturally sound as found in the word of God.

If one wishes to know what the Lord Jesus or the early church believed as defined by scripture they must try to be as that early church and use the whole word of God. God will honor it and lead them and teach them by his Spirit.

For those who say that the views of the early church do not apply today the word says that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. It is also written his word changes not. Since the Lord could reveal end time matters to John on the Isle of Patmos it is indeed a fact that the word applies today and the Lord knows how all things shall end.

I'm sorry if you didn't see it but the answer was there discreetly.

Simply put, follow the Lord how the whole word says and you will have your answer from the Lord directly. It doesn't matter what a heretical backslidden church thinks. Neither what false prophets say.

May God bless.

Amen and Amen! It took me a while when I was a teenager to get over that hump as well. Now I know better. All of Gods children, including the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered and transsexual and intersex ones, are blessed by Him.

I will be judged on what I have done or not done not for who I am.We are the way God made us it is up to us to make the best of ourselves,that is why we were given free will

Kim,
That is an interesting answer. Pretty much just what I discreetly said. Minus the God makes us that way part.

It is interesting as well that your response about free will destroys the argument about how a "loving God" can send people to hell.

In fact, he doesn't. He sets before them good and evil, blessings and cursing. They choose. Depending on their choice they choose heaven or hell.

May God bless.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on August 15, 2013, 10:57:23 AM
  I have taken the last 2 years to sort it all out gathering viewpoints from conservative fundamental christians to liberal progressive christians. I have come to see some widely varying beliefs and opinions. I have also seen some and been directly emailed in these regards. Some have outrighted denied the existance of intersex people while others have denied that Euncuhs in the bible are some sort of gender variant person.


Where I personally stood just 3 years ago was that a person with an intersex condtion was someone influenced by the fall of man. That these things happen due to a sinful world and nature and it was a form of demonic opression. I used to think being transgender was pure direct demonic influence as well as having a differernt orientation. I never ever hated anyone that was lgbtqqi before at all, never did anything to hurt or try to tell them to stop, i didnt consider it to be any of my business and that it was between them and God.


Thank the Lord that I have been made aware of certain medical and spiritual and personal struggles that people go though. Thank goodness that I got to meet real holy fruited people that just happen to be some variation of lgbtqqi and also were of the same faith. It was a wonderful eye opener.

Of course as you all know i found out I was intersex too. And on top of it all dealing with gender confusion in my heart and mind. But I am still amazed today how people react to people.

I mean here we have folks born with intersex conditions and no one can deny the medical truth of it all and yet we have people (like my mom unfortunately and joel osteen also) that deny that these things are real and shrug it off as man made up information.

Same can be said for those who are transgender and transsexual and gay lesbian or bisexual, pansexual or genderfluid. It seems to me that these things are more in the mind and body and can be confirmed medically speaking to various degrees.

I see no demons here anymore. I pray other Christians will stop seeing demons as well. 

Amen Shawn!  I know it can be very hurtful people, especially those close to us, will write off how we feel has "being an attack from the enemy" or is a "spirit".  While I do feel many people believe that, I also feel it's a away for some people to subconciously use that as an excuse because they don't want to believe that what we go through has been medically backed up by science.  With more attention to this, hopefully we can start to break down some of the barriers.

Quote from: Del on August 18, 2013, 06:10:40 AM
Kim,
That is an interesting answer. Pretty much just what I discreetly said. Minus the God makes us that way part.

It is interesting as well that your response about free will destroys the argument about how a "loving God" can send people to hell.

In fact, he doesn't. He sets before them good and evil, blessings and cursing. They choose. Depending on their choice they choose heaven or hell.

May God bless.




That's good