Well, this is a fine turn of events.

I have a couple of questions for you guys if I may. I have often heard m2f's say that they knew from birth that they were a woman, but I have not heard that so much from guys.

If any of you feel that you evolved to your position, I would like to know about it. And, what pushed you past the point of sitting on the fence? See, I was born that way.

I have this really incredible woman friend that likes me, but she only dates men. I don't want to be a guy, but I hate being without her. It is not the first time I have dealt with this conundrum, but this is only the second time in my life where I care. She is all that and a bag of chips and the super-size soda to boot. If I were a regular guy, there is no doubt in my mind that we would be spending time together.

And I don't mean the sex either. This is way beyond that. This is a painful, bloody reminder everytime I think about her. As a liflong lesbo, I learned long ago that I can't always have what I want. Usually, over time, it fades away, and we become friends. But this is too much, and doesn't ever go away. Even time doesn't heal this wound.

I am supposed to see her tomorrow for the first time in six months. It would almost be a relief if the feelings were gone after we meet. But I am thinking not, based on the butterflys in my stomach. I know that I can't be something that I am not for her, but it is really tempting.

Does anyone know of anyone that has done something stupid like that? Transitioned to be with a gal?

Yes...

I had a gay friend, a guy who transitioned to be with his Male lover.

The Male lover ultimately decided that he didn't want to be with a woman. My friend decided then she didn't want to be a woman, so it was a no win situation.

Misguided reasons are the wrong reasons.

Buffy

I'm sorry to say that this sounds like a no-win situation, Thundra.

I can understand your longing and I think you would end up hating yourself and her if you transitioned to male even though you still feel female.  That's like volunteering for GID, fer cryin' out loud!  From someone who knows what that's like, please, don't even think about doing something so damaging!

I wish there were a better solution and I can't think of one besides keeping the level of your admiration secret and enjoying your friendship the way it stands.

hugs & wistful smiles
Emelye

QuoteIf any of you feel that you evolved to your position, I would like to know about it. And, what pushed you past the point of sitting on the fence?

still early on, but it just feels right.  I wasn't sure what was up with me when i was a kid.  I just know this is me... don't think i've evolved into this because i've always been this way.  I can just put words to it now.  I'm not doing this for anyone but myself.  I lived enough of my life being something i wasn't for other people.  it leads to misery.

I think it is more apparent for mtf at an early age because of society.  society is more accepting of girls wearing "guy" clothes etc.

QuoteI don't want to be a guy

QuoteDoes anyone know of anyone that has done something stupid like that? Transitioned to be with a gal?

yeah, that's a bad idea.  you need to do it for yourself and not other people.  if she can't get past the fact that you aren't a guy... that sucks. 

Does she know how you feel? 

QuoteDoes she know how you feel? 

We have never spoken of it, but I think she knows by how I touch her, look at her, and cater to her. She has invited me to come and visit her, and I intend to do just that.

I got to meet a group of her friends tonight, which makes us even -- since she met my friends previously at a get together.

Her ex was there, and surprisingly enough, I wasn't jealous, just annoyed. Part of me feels like I should let it go, but I can't. I don't want to be a guy, but it makes me wish I was a guy if I could be with her. That sounds completely contradictory, but that is just how it is.  Weird.
Y'know, until this moment, I never understood what many people in this community have to go thru. That is quite a burden for anyone to have to resolve. Pretty darn brutal.

Quote from: Thundra on July 07, 2007, 10:20:07 PM
I have a couple of questions for you guys if I may. I have often heard m2f's say that they knew from birth that they were a woman, but I have not heard that so much from guys.

I pretty much knew from birth. I simply assumed I was a boy and would grow up to be like my dad. I didn't know I was different from any other boy, until age 4 when my friend took a leak in the backyard and I saw that what he had was different from what I had.
The onset of puberty sent me into deep, unpenetrable denial. It's amazing what the mind will do to protect itself.
This lasted from age 11 - 18.

Quote from: J.T. on July 09, 2007, 01:14:33 AM
I think it is more apparent for mtf at an early age because of society.  society is more accepting of girls wearing "guy" clothes etc. 

It's equally as apparent for an ftm if you're forced into a dress every morning for private school and bows, ribbons, and lace every Sunday for church.
Just because society rejects 'feminine' boys, does not mean we had an easier road. At least I know I didn't.

Not really ranting at your statement or anything, rather at the implications of many who think that just because the world doesn't demonize tomboys that there's this great unbalance of hardship between an mtf childhood and an ftm childhood. I've read articles by professionals and even mtfs that actually state 'a budding mtf is in an especially difficult position compared to a budding ftm, due to society's...blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada...'

Yeah, that sounds good in theory. And I don't know, maybe some ftms did have it easy, but I'd glady invite the believers of that theory to spend one hour in my shoes when I was a 'budding ftm' so they can see just what a 'cakewalk' my childhood was.

Ahhh...that's better. Just had to get that out. Rant over, now back to the topic at hand.

Quote from: Thundra on July 07, 2007, 10:20:07 PM
If any of you feel that you evolved to your position, I would like to know about it. And, what pushed you past the point of sitting on the fence? See, I was born that way.

Well, here goes...
I came out of denial at 18 thinking I was the most unique creature on the planet and that I was the only 'female' alive who was really a man.
I thought it was cool, the ultimate deception. Boy, I was special - nobody else dead or alive had 'this' going.
I had no idea there were other people who had the body of one sex, but were really the opposite sex.
I thought a 'transsexual' was just a really dedicated drag queen who decided to procure a vagina.
As ignorant as that sounds.

I continued this line of thinking until I was reading a book one day and it mentioned in passing that the subject had gender identity disorder, realized it applied to me, researched it, and learned that transition was possible.
So much for being the only one of my kind throughout all the ages...
So goes the evolution of a very disgruntled ftm.

Quote from: Thundra on July 07, 2007, 10:20:07 PM
I don't want to be a guy,

This statement says it all. If you are not male, transitioning would be a colossal mistake.

Quote from: Thundra on July 07, 2007, 10:20:07 PM
Does anyone know of anyone that has done something stupid like that? Transitioned to be with a gal?

I don't think you could be truly happy doing this for any other reason than that you are truly male and need to be seen as male.

Say you did transition to male, got the girl, you two live happily ever after,...then what?
You'd be stuck living the life of someone you are not. And I, for one can tell you that that is not fun.

your friend,
Nero

QuoteSay you did transition to male, got the girl, you two live happily ever after,...then what?
You'd be stuck living the life of someone you are not. And I, for one can tell you that that is not fun.

I appreciate your heartfelt reply and I needed to hear that badly. But I gotta tell you dude, I don't know how anything could hurt more than saying goodbye an hour ago. Especially when she said I'll see you soon, and she meant it. She is a siren that one. Talk about messing with your head?

So yeah, I'm sitting here having a beer. Drowning my sorrows and all that. My body disgusts me. I totally get where Dennis was coming from now. Getting old sucks. This is just gross.
I need to figure some things out, and soon.

to paraphrase J.T., "do it for no one but yourself".

I think the reason some people assume it's easier for an FtM than an MTF is that, being men, the FtM's probably are disposed toward keeping in their feelings rather than showing them as the women (MtF) do.

I am sorry to hear that you are in this situation, Thundra. I hope you find your way sooner than later. If you need anything, just send me a message.


Love

Quote from: RebeccaFog on July 09, 2007, 08:28:34 PM
I think the reason some people assume it's easier for an FtM than an MTF is that, being men, the FtM's probably are disposed toward keeping in their feelings rather than showing them as the women (MtF) do.

Now that you mention it...I've always considered myself an emotional person, and I can feel things that don't really matter, I cry if I feel touched by something, etc., but when it's something personal and painful, I don't feel anything. I guess I just don't allow myself to.

QuoteNow that you mention it...I've always considered myself an emotional person, and I can feel things that don't really matter, I cry if I feel touched by something, etc., but when it's something personal and painful, I don't feel anything. I guess I just don't allow myself to.

I'm usually the same way with the same "skill."  Not this time. This is what is meant by someone getting "under your skin."

Quote from: Nero on July 09, 2007, 10:59:04 PM

Quote from: RebeccaFog on July 09, 2007, 08:28:34 PM
I think the reason some people assume it's easier for an FtM than an MTF is that, being men, the FtM's probably are disposed toward keeping in their feelings rather than showing them as the women (MtF) do.

Now that you mention it...I've always considered myself an emotional person, and I can feel things that don't really matter, I cry if I feel touched by something, etc., but when it's something personal and painful, I don't feel anything. I guess I just don't allow myself to.

   I wonder if the other sensitivity is your brain being controlled by estrogen? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with sensitive men or being sensitive, just that in a case like yours, are you more susceptible because of your hormones?

*hugs Thundra*

That sucks, what you're going through. The difference for me was that I did start feeling much more dysphoric as I got older, but I had also spent the years before puberty convinced I was male and that I'd wake up with the right body someday. Transition for someone else is definitely not a good idea, which I think you know.

I hope things get better for you.

Dennis

Quotehope things get better for you.

Thanks Dennis.

I'm chalking this is up as one of those life's lessons to help us get a clue as to what it is like to walk in someone else's shoes.  It sucks. I hafta tell you man, if this is what you had to deal with all of those years, you are a strong man my friend.

I think that everyone assumes that transitioning from f2m is easier than m2f, but I think maybe everyone is off base there too. Life is just hard -- period.

Quote from: RebeccaFog on July 10, 2007, 08:25:06 AM

Quote from: Nero on July 09, 2007, 10:59:04 PM

Quote from: RebeccaFog on July 09, 2007, 08:28:34 PM
I think the reason some people assume it's easier for an FtM than an MTF is that, being men, the FtM's probably are disposed toward keeping in their feelings rather than showing them as the women (MtF) do.

Now that you mention it...I've always considered myself an emotional person, and I can feel things that don't really matter, I cry if I feel touched by something, etc., but when it's something personal and painful, I don't feel anything. I guess I just don't allow myself to.

   I wonder if the other sensitivity is your brain being controlled by estrogen? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with sensitive men or being sensitive, just that in a case like yours, are you more susceptible because of your hormones?

I don't know. Guess I'll find out when I go on testosterone, since it's supposed to suppress estrogen. I hope that's not what it is though. I really don't want my personality to change, just my body.

QuoteI don't know. Guess I'll find out when I go on testosterone, since it's supposed to suppress estrogen. I hope that's not what it is though. I really don't want my personality to change, just my body.

Boy, are you in for a shock!  I was a completely different version of myself on the hormones.
Part of my problem with this woman friend of mine is that we met while I was experimenting.
See where I am going? It's weird.

I didn't find I had much of a personality change with testosterone. People around me just said I seemed more comfortable and relaxed.

Dennis

QuoteI don't know. Guess I'll find out when I go on testosterone, since it's supposed to suppress estrogen. I hope that's not what it is though. I really don't want my personality to change, just my body.

My personality didn't change at all. The only thing that changed was that I didn't cry as easily, which was something I was really, really looking forward to.

Now, sweat glands and face fuzz are a different matter...