I've been thinking.  I look at my life some 18 months ago, before things started to change.  I worked basically two full time jobs and I took my wife out to play a couple of times a week (hence the dark circles around my eyes).  Occasionally, I went and played with the children and grandchildren.  I used the internet almost exclusively for work.  I owned three pickup trucks, a house and a small resort (which is really job two, more of a tangible 401K).  Everyone at my "real" job was intimidated by me; they worked with me when there was absolutely no choice. At the resort, I really never talked with anyone. As bad as that sounds, that's really the end of the story.

Now?  In my real job, no one is intimidated anymore. Heck, half the women hug me when I show up.  I laugh, I talk, I share and others have responded; I'm busier now as they actually feel free to ask questions.  They want to work with me.  I have lost what little "male privilege" I had and have found myself in multiple teams with only women, who accept me as me, an acceptance that I have never found in any group before.  Although I'm not full time yet and am still working through telling everyone,  there really hasn't been a problem.  Everyone I've told keeps telling me some variation around "I knew" or "that explains a lot".  My resort is running well and I have dramatically cut down on the time I spend working there (although I'd still like to actually show a profit).  The time that used to be spent rebuilding the place has been turned into time to enjoy the things I have worked so hard to build.  I still play with my wife a couple of times a week and still play with the kids and the grandkids.  I bought a car, my first new car since 1983. No one can believe the car thing.  It's like "your trans gender? – OK", "you bought a car?  what?" . I spend time on social media.  I sing, A LOT.  I'm closing in on 100 lbs of weight lost.  I also cry, a lot.  Emotions can be over whelming. 

So, does that sound like the same person?  I don't think so.  Before, well, he was kind of an unhappy, arrogant ass.  Now, she's kind, accepting, caring and at times, fun, but most importantly, often happy.  I think we do a disservice when we say "I'm still the same person".  Yea, I've changed but I'd like to think I've changed for the better.
 
So..., have you changed? Is it reasonable for us to say "I'm the same person"?

It's kinda hard to say. A lot of things about me have changed. But when I watch old videos of me, I see...me inside some thin girl's body. Lol. My base personality is exactly the same, I just feel differently about myself, so that makes me seem different externally.

I've been wondering the same thing as of late. And if you're not the same person, is there any sense of continuity with your previous life?

The "Ship of Thesus" paradox

"The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned from Crete had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their place, in so much that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same."
—Plutarch, Theseus

What makes us, us?  I contend it is that esse, spirit, soul, consciousness, or whatever you want to call it, that seems to be apart from out physical selves.

I think that I am the same person I was prior to starting my transition. I have the same likes and dislikes as before. The only difference I can see, is that I am much much happier within myself. I am much more outgoing so I no longer see myself as an introvert.

I've noticed some improvements in myself by simple acknowledgement. I haven't started anything yet but I notice I am more willing to be helpful to others. If I see someone across the street in a wheelchair stuck I am ready to go help. If people here on Susan's are looking for information I'll gladly try to google it instead of telling them to do it. People who know me in real life probably wouldn't notice much of a difference but I notice it in myself.

Quote from: Jamie D on August 16, 2013, 07:47:08 PM
The "Ship of Thesus" paradox

"The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned from Crete had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their place, in so much that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same."
—Plutarch, Theseus

What makes us, us?  I contend it is that esse, spirit, soul, consciousness, or whatever you want to call it, that seems to be apart from out physical selves.

This is reasonable, at least in part.  I would propose that we are composed of three parts: body, soul and spirit.  In that proposal, our spirit would be the essence of who we are, our soul would be the intellect  of that essence and our body would be the physical manifestation of the soul and spirit.  In that scheme, two of three would not change.  The process of transition simply aligns the three together and our manifestation is corrected to be what it was meant to be.  Hence, we would be complete and able to express ourselves fully as we are.

I was actually thinking more about how others perceive us and how the proper alignment affects our thoughts, actions and interpersonal relationships.  We interact in the physical world and others cannot see all of the spirit and soul.  It is therefore asserted that even while mis-gendered, the outside world could see some part of that which makes us, well, us.

(Some would combine soul and spirit in to one and I believe your argument would have that combination.  I do not believe that combining the two would negate the "alignment" assertion.  I do like the dilemma posed by the changing of the wood on the ship.)   

I think that I have remained the same person after. After all, despite the fact that I am now a little more confident, a little more comfortable, and a little more of myself, I still have the same personality as myself; the only difference is the body, and my hormones that react with that body.

Quote from: JenSquid on August 16, 2013, 07:41:12 PM
I've been wondering the same thing as of late. And if you're not the same person, is there any sense of continuity with your previous life?

That's an interesting question. I think life changed a lot and I remember one point when I realized my memories of my previous life seemed as they were a story I once read in a book. The person in the story is some other person.

I think I am... or at least, as much "the same person" as I have been comparing the beginning and end of any other five-year period in my life. (I dunno if I'm the same person as I was when I graduated high school, or college, but almost everyone changes gradually but consistently as life goes on.) I'm definitely happier, more stable, and more content, but the same was true when I quit a job that was killing me.

I don't regret transition, and in many ways it's one of the best things I've ever done for myself. But I don't think I *reinvented* myself; I think I stripped away a lot of layers of misery and confusion.

Hmm...
There was an meadow called "Appleseed Meadow" because a large apple tree that grew in it, A battle was fought for it by two sides, One side won, But the battle was costly all that grew in it was burned to ash.
Peace came to the ruined landscape, Seasons changed, In time flowers grew to replace what was lost, It was renamed "Blossom Meadow" to reflect it's new nature.
Is it the same meadow?

Picking an arbitrary point pre- and post-transition, say two years, I was COMPLETELY different, almost completely opposite in every way!

Pre-transition I was quiet, shy, withdrawn, sullen, fairly anti-social, pessimistic, and generally gloomy. I had no interest in relationships and didn't trust people. I was also extremely depressed and suicidal and a real loner.

Two years post-transition (and SRS) I was outgoing, chipper (usually bubbly!), funny, optimistic, loving, playful, dynamic and full of energy. I had become the kind of person everybody likes to be around, had a gazillion friends, and loved being with my friends.

Even early on I was often amazed by how much I had changed but I knew that, deep down, I had always been the kind of person I had become but just needed the freedom to express and develop my potential. Honestly I BECAME the kind of young woman I admired most and even more!

Jennifer,

You post hit a chord. I buried myself in my work, it was everything to me.

To bypass a lot, I used to basically work 7 days a week and late into the night, even if it was working at home.

Now?

I've cut myself back to a three day week. I leave on time, I have a crazy social life that I love (never had one before) and I don't miss the past stuff at all.
And drive a sports car with number plates that say CINDY. I still give most of my money away but that's just me.

We are both fortunate in that we can afford what we do.

But yes I have changed.

Cindy

I've changed. Not due to transitioning or self acceptance but rather through life experience. I used to work 24/7 three to four months at a time, take two days off and back at it again. Now I don't really want to do anything but sit and watch the world go by. I used to be uptight and mostly business, now I take time to talk to someone else or just say thank you even if they treat me sort of rude. I really have no idea how bad their day was previous to when I showed up but I have had plenty of those days myself and definately take that into consideration. I think I'm a way better person now than when I was 21.

I can't help but wonder if maybe the reason people feel different is simply because they're happier.

I had 'the talk' with my wife last night. And it went VERY WELL!

She realized that some stuff is going to change. But she also realized that I'm still the same person. But now I can let myself be more me a little at a time at home. So... some stuff's going to change. And eventually I'm going to start HRT (Probably in about a year or so).

I'll still have the same hobbies. The same likes and dislikes and such. There'll be a lot of physical and social changes. But ... I really thing the BIGGEST change will be that I'll be happier. I'm a lot more so already after last night.

We're not even the same people from one year to the next - experiences change us. All transitioning does is take it to an extreme.

That said - there have been studies done that show FTMs who take hormones develop male spatial abilities while retaining female aptitudes for reading/writing. So, it likely does change our brains.

Kia Ora,

Re: Are we really "the same person" after transition?....

Physically and mentally we have to 'adapt' to our 'new' environment, so no, physically and mentally we are not the 'same' person...Other people tend to treat us differently which leads both body and mind to 'go with the flow of change'...

Paradoxically we are the same person but different...

Metta Zenda

Is the Tin Woodman the same person as Nick Chopper?

I would say the essence is more or less the same, but with the pain and fear stripped away so we can be more free to be who we really are.

I'd have to say for that I'm not the same person I was when I started. For me it seems like it's been a gradual process and I don't know how to put it into words but when I look back on pictures of myself I'm finding it more and more difficult to remember what it's like to be "him".

Don't get me wrong there are many parts of myself that have stayed (sense of humour, "geeky" interests) through this process but as a whole I do feel like the same person.

Quote from: Jamie D on August 16, 2013, 07:47:08 PM
The "Ship of Thesus" paradox

"The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned from Crete had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their place, in so much that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same."
—Plutarch, Theseus

What makes us, us?  I contend it is that esse, spirit, soul, consciousness, or whatever you want to call it, that seems to be apart from out physical selves.

This.  I think it's a process that we all go through in our lifetimes.  Sometimes there are major life events were more of us are "replaced" but it is still ongoing.  I think of how people around me have changed over the years, and how some events would cause them to change more dramatically.

I see how parenthood has caused an old high school friend to "grow up" and become more responsible than I could have imagined back then.  I see how the death of my father seemed to completely destroy my mother's confidence.  I can see how they've changed but in many ways they're still recognizable.