In solidarity with Skye-Blue I am leaving.

Why are we all fighting and tossing venom?  I thought this was a community of people that respected one another.  I've always seen everyone as a virtual family. Skye is a good person and I consider her a friend who is always able to contact should she need me.  If she decides to leave, that's her choice and I respect it  And if you decide to leave, that's your choice and I respect it. But there is no reason for us to fight and criticize Susan for creating the Terms of Service for her own site.

Seriously, what's with all the infighting today?  Please let's all stop fighting.

Not to be pedantic, but I fail to see how boycotting the site will benefit anyone. This action isn't sending a political message, it's foregoing a support.

Maddy

I wish you all the best Yuki, but I hope you decide to keep your profile open and that more people don't decide to leave.

Like learningtolive said, Susan made the TOS for a reason and sometimes the moderators do things that might not make sense to some members because you can't see what goes on in the moderator boards. Everyone is welcome to contact a staff member via PM if you feel that a moderator's action wasn't warranted or if you don't understand why an action was taken.

Someone call a doctor this site is hemorrhaging members. Seriously, I hope you decide to stay. This is the best support site on the net. You will not find another one that is better. TgBoards is good and I lik eit but it does not have as many  members and can become quite uncivil.

The Suprme Court decided in Chaplinsky V New Hampshire that free speech does not mean you can say whatever you want. If you say something that can cause a riot, that is not protected speech, unless it is political, which was decided in the Cohen case and in Miller V California and is called the Miller Test.

The point is speech that cause a riot is not protected and should be banned. Online if a post is going to cause a flame war and people are going to become hurt, it needs to stop. The mods do a fantastic job in this and hard one at that that is virtually thankless. But I guess if you want an uncivil site where people trade barbs and meaningful conversation is thus suppressed, you will find it. Just not here.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 23, 2013, 06:18:17 PM
Someone call a doctor this site is hemorrhaging members. Seriously, I hope you decide to stay. This is the best support site on the net. You will not find another one that is better. TgBoards is good and I lik eit but it does not have as many  members and can become quite uncivil.

The Suprme Court decided in Chaplinsky V New Hampshire that free speech does not mean you can say whatever you want. If you say something that can cause a riot, that is not protected speech, unless it is political, which was decided in the Cohen case and in Miller V California and is called the Miller Test.

The point is speech that cause a riot is not protected and should be banned. Online if a post is going to cause a flame war and people are going to become hurt, it needs to stop. The mods do a fantastic job in this and hard one at that that is virtually thankless. But I guess if you want an uncivil site where people trade barbs and meaningful conversation is thus suppressed, you will find it. Just not here.

+1  Good comment Joanna, I'll second that!

I think I've missed something    Why are people leaving?    I don't want anyone to leave anything 

Quote from: Joey. on August 23, 2013, 06:42:23 PM
I think I've missed something    Why are people leaving?    I don't want anyone to leave anything 

I think this had to do with this thread: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,147338.0/topicseen.html

Quote from: Fairy Princess with a Death Ray on August 23, 2013, 05:37:39 PM
Not to be pedantic, but I fail to see how boycotting the site will benefit anyone. This action isn't sending a political message, it's foregoing a support.

Maddy

This.  There is a reason for fighting for free speech in general, for example having free speech on the internet as a whole but on a support forum there has to be some stricter rules to maintain it as a safe place for people to come.  I'm pretty sure that if you want to talk about something with someone and its not allowed on the forum, you can talk about it in a private message and nobody will stop you.  (I'm not entirely sure of this as I got banned from another forum for something that was said in a private message that was not offending the other party in the message but an admin had read what we were talking about and decided that it was deserving of a ban.)

No one on staff reads personal messages here.  In the event there is a lawful warrant, Susan can get into the database.  Otherwise your privacy is protected.

Quote from: Jamie D on August 23, 2013, 07:12:42 PM
No one on staff reads personal messages here.  In the event there is a lawful warrant, Susan can get into the database.  Otherwise your privacy is protected.

Good to know.  What we were talking about just so happens to be allowed on Susan's in the open forum, it was just a very strict group.

I run a forum in a different field where members frequently get offended and/or move on.  The safety of vulnerable members always overrides free speech so that sort of forum tends to be very strict.  As a mod I can say that it's a difficult job and mods do sometimes over-react but hopefully we are open to discuss our decisions in private conversations.  I have made decisions and later backed down - it happens.

Thanks to Susan et al for doing a difficult job with very little in the way of thanks.  The only time we tend to discuss the mods is when someone disagrees with a decision, but that's life.

I just want to add that I am heartbroken whenever a member feels they have to leave because of a dispute.

My credo has always been, "Build bridges, not walls."  I can only speak for myself, as a Moderator, but I will bend over backwards to try to set any wrongs right.

You have my word on that.

I've always enjoyed being here at Susan's for support and to support others in kind. I view life in general and transition in particular like a ladder where we each reach up to someone further up the transition ladder for a little support and TLC and in turn reach down and grab a "Newby" by the hand and help that person up another rung. This works when we all co-operate with a willing attitude and a friendly manner. Free speech has always been an essential part of the process and invariably there is always a few who overstep the bounds of common sense and civility caused by hormonal changes and nasty mood swings, we all have them at times. That's the reason for moderators, and they do an excellent job of keeping the peace here unlike other sites that are knock down drag out free-for-alls. Members here are all free to be heard and to respond freely within the guidelines of a few common sense constraints. We are all free to leave whenever we feel it's necessary to take a break and step away from the crushing burden's of others. I wish those few who have decided to leave my best wishes and do keep in mind that we'll always be here for you and greet you with open arms should you decide to return. I'm not on staff here, but I'm sure that is Susan's position as well as that of her staff as well. ~Shan~

People come people go.

People get angry and upset, that is human nature.

There are no Mods who discriminate among members.

We can't. We ourselves are under scrutiny which is far tighter than general members are under, of that I can assure you.

We try damn hard to run a very large site under the rules the owner of the site has.

The wages and conditions are magnificent  , work till you drop and expect to be spat at, but be cheerful and help people who are crying out for help and have nowhere to go.

And on top we have our own horrors to deal with, but bugga that we are mods (sarcasm)

If you don't like the rules take it up with the owner she has an email: susan@susans.org

She is a very charming and a very nice woman, I know her well, she does listen.

Finally, sometimes we, as humans need to take a step back, we get upset, we react, we often regret the step we have taken, but our pride kicks in and we get stuck in the middle and we will not change, that is life.

I'm tired, it has been a hellish few weeks.

I'm Cindy, and in case you didn't know, you can message me anytime as well.

Cindy

Cindy has told me, she has been yelled at likely as often as I have

Much as I want to get in a right hissy fit bitch of a mood and rant like the emotional wench I probably am (which in an ironic way makes me feel good as it just conforms to me being a woman as I see it), the thing is, I get nothing out of leaving, for good.

I suppose in time, I will be like Cindy laughing at my past on the forum.

I wish people were not leaving.

I sometimes wonder how I stay, and then I realize how alone I would be if I left.

I have nothing outside of Susan's place, and I am not in a hurry to pretend there is anything else out there on the internet.

And I don't really like the internet, so I am not in a hurry to go looking either.

I hope she comes back. I will miss her.

I just came back to this thread to say, no I will not be 'returning' to Susan's place.
I will miss you guys dearly, you are lovely people,
however I prefer to spend my time in places free from censorship and oppression.

Susan's place has become the prominent place to come to for support with gender issues.
it is so sad.
it is said when there is a monopoly in something, corruption sets in.  make up your own mind.
and if any more posts disappear, you know there is a problem.

you might start to think you're living in Argentina in the 90s.
Take care of yourselves.

Is it just me or is this not really how it is here?  I don't feel anyone is oppressed from speaking their mind as long as it is not breaking the TOS, which are completely sensible for such a forum.

Quote from: Yuki-jker86 on August 31, 2013, 09:22:38 PM
I just came back to this thread to say, no I will not be 'returning' to Susan's place.
I will miss you guys dearly, you are lovely people,
however I prefer to spend my time in places free from censorship and oppression.

Susan's place has become the prominent place to come to for support with gender issues.
it is so sad.
it is said when there is a monopoly in something, corruption sets in.  make up your own mind.
and if any more posts disappear, you know there is a problem.

you might start to think you're living in Argentina in the 90s.
Take care of yourselves.

Don't you think you may be taking this a little too seriously. It's just a forum how are you feeling oppressed? It's not like they are hiding the rules from anyone. 

Quote from: Yuki-jker86 on August 31, 2013, 09:22:38 PM
I just came back to this thread to say, no I will not be 'returning' to Susan's place.
I will miss you guys dearly, you are lovely people,
however I prefer to spend my time in places free from censorship and oppression.

Susan's place has become the prominent place to come to for support with gender issues.
it is so sad.
it is said when there is a monopoly in something, corruption sets in.  make up your own mind.
and if any more posts disappear, you know there is a problem.

you might start to think you're living in Argentina in the 90s.
Take care of yourselves.

Before you leave, what censorship are you referring to?  I'm sorry, but I don't see it.  Do you have examples?  Remember there are terms of service and Susan has the right to set that as it is her site.  If someone violates that, the moderators have the right to enforce the rules.  However, outside of the terms of service, is there really anything that says corruption or undue censorship?  Can you  point out where you see it and what you find offensive.  No one can correct a problem if you don't state what you find objectionable.   Oppression continues if you don't speak up and show it for what it is.  If your goal is to improve the site or even critique it, it would be helpful for you to state what is oppressive about it.  I'm sorry, but I don't see Susan's turning into Pravda.

Nonetheless, I am sad to see you go and wish you well on your future endeavours.   Take care of yourself.