So, I've been thinking how interesting it is the way that people's minds are subconsciously "programmed" to recognise supposed preferences that each sex has - for example, a great many people assume that "all men must enjoy fast cars and sports" and "all women must enjoy cooking and babies" - of course, we know that this is a very sexist and rubbish perspective, but nonetheless...I've noticed that this translates to other areas, food in particular.

My wife enjoys a good steak and a meaty hamburger with the lot - I, on the other hand, prefer chicken, fish and lighter dishes such as pasta and rice.  A great many people in Western culture assume that men like "meat and potatoes" and women like "salads and chicken".  Every single time we go out for dinner and order our food, when the server brings out plates - they never fail to put the steak or hamburger in front of me and the chicken or pasta in front of my wife.  They automatically assume that the man ordered the meat and the woman ordered the lighter dish. 

It's something that I never really paid attention to before until I started passing - whereas before, when I was read as "female", I always had my pasta or chicken or rice, etc. placed in front of me without question.  Has anyone noticed anything similar?  My wife and I were discussing it last night and found it interesting.

i'm from a place where everybody is expected to like bone marrow. i don't think there are any gender specific foods in this area, old traditions are still quite strong here. fish or reindeer or elk or sheep. then there are those who actually like those overgrown chickens raised on hormone supplements or other disgusting modern foods. i don't think anyone here makes the mistake of giving fish soup to the wife and meat balls to the husband if they ordered the opposite.

but i can imagine it happening in the city.

Hee Heee

My BF is a vegetarian, I'm not. Every time we go for dinner, which is regular, he gets the meat I get the vegetarian! He also eats about 10 times more than me which confuse the place as well. I ask for a small serve, a small steak. The staff never seem to catch on!

When I am with my friends, who are all male, we usually stop at a corner-shop to get some food for consumption while we're gaming or watching films. It's usually along the lines of the cheapest, meatiest, most disgusting microwave rubbish in stock. In fact, the more it screams 'THIS IS MEAT', the more they appreciate it. Many cis females, on seeing the sort of things we eat when we're together, declare it 'disgusting'. The thing is... myself and friends know that it is disgusting, and yet it doesn't stop us. The more meaty and processed it is, the manlier it is. 'Real men' are not put off by the amount of fat that leaks out of it nor the smell it produces. 'Real men' eat it and enjoy it, all while joking about how horrible it is. It's almost contradictory, but that's the way it is with my friends.

Maybe it's a cultural thing? I've never experienced that in the UK. Here, servers generally approach the table with the dishes, stand next to one of you and asks who's having what before plonking anything down on the table. It'd probably be considered rude for a British server to put a plate in front of someone without checking first. Apart from in high-end restaurants, of course - but that's because your waiter knows exactly who ordered what and they like to keep their service as unobtrusive as possible.

One thing I have noticed, though, is that they always approach the man first when taking the order or asking whether you want the bill. But when delivering the food to the table, they tend to ask the lady first. British people seem to be taught never to directly approach a lady when she's accompanied by a man, apart from when they're about to feed her. Hmmm... not sure what to make of that!

As for food choices, I've always been a meat-lover. Even as I child I would usually order the T-Bone steak whenever we went out.

It is as much cultural as it is based on gender based needs.
Men have in general more muscle, and muscle requires proteins. This gives rise to eating more meat and the likes.

Drinks is another story. That is, I think, completely cultural. I went out for dinner with two cis friends. A guy and a girl. The guy ordered a red wine, which was immediately offered to the girl when it was served. Ah yes, my guy friend started to resemble the wine in colour when he admitted it was for him.

Quote from: FTMDiaries on August 27, 2013, 05:21:15 AM
One thing I have noticed, though, is that they always approach the man first when taking the order or asking whether you want the bill. But when delivering the food to the table, they tend to ask the lady first. British people seem to be taught never to directly approach a lady when she's accompanied by a man, apart from when they're about to feed her. Hmmm... not sure what to make of that!

i think they present the food for the lady first in order to see if it passes her scrutiny. it's her eyes it needs to be appealing to, she's the one who'll have any complaints if it isn't good enough. whom would they ask to taste the wine? i imagine it would be the man, but i'm not too sure since i don't go to restaurants often. i'd ask the man at least, since i wouldn't want the lady to taste anything unpalatable, so testing it on him seems like a good idea to me. it also gives him a chance to look good in front of her. i think taking the order from the man is because he's the one who'll be expected to pay the bill as well.
there's quite a lot of old fashioned courtesy going on in european restaurants, i find it fascinating.

Quote from: Mr.X on August 27, 2013, 05:37:38 AM
It is as much cultural as it is based on gender based needs.
Men have in general more muscle, and muscle requires proteins. This gives rise to eating more meat and the likes.

Drinks is another story. That is, I think, completely cultural. I went out for dinner with two cis friends. A guy and a girl. The guy ordered a red wine, which was immediately offered to the girl when it was served. Ah yes, my guy friend started to resemble the wine in colour when he admitted it was for him.

did they ask her to taste, or did they just give it to her?

i don't know about those gender based needs. i see girls here who eat just as much meet as the guys. it's all about how much physically active a person is, and that's not really gender based. everybody here runs around in the mountains any time they get a day off, and have the same nutritional needs. in the cities i suppose it's just an image thing, guys wanting to the have biggest muscles and girls competing about the smallest waist.

Quotedid they ask her to taste, or did they just give it to her?

i don't know about those gender based needs. i see girls here who eat just as much meet as the guys. it's all about how much physically active a person is, and that's not really gender based. everybody here runs around in the mountains any time they get a day off, and have the same nutritional needs. in the cities i suppose it's just an image thing, guys wanting to the have biggest muscles and girls competing about the smallest waist.

It wasn't a high end place, so they just gave it to her.
And yes, I agree. It depends on activity levels as well. But that's where the term generally comes in. There are always exceptions to the rule. But in general, men have more muscle, which require protein maintenance.

Quote from: Mr.X on August 27, 2013, 05:37:38 AM
It is as much cultural as it is based on gender based needs.
Men have in general more muscle, and muscle requires proteins. This gives rise to eating more meat and the likes.

Drinks is another story. That is, I think, completely cultural. I went out for dinner with two cis friends. A guy and a girl. The guy ordered a red wine, which was immediately offered to the girl when it was served. Ah yes, my guy friend started to resemble the wine in colour when he admitted it was for him.

That must be cultural. In Adelaide wine is wine, doesn't matter the colour, guys drink white or red and girls drink white or red. No one gives a damn, everyone drinks wine!


Kreuzfidel, have you and your wife gone to Elephant and Castle on the corner of West Tce South Tce. Great salad bar and steaks to just look at and say OMG!

Must go back there!!! Steer on a plate I think our USA friends would say. Just let the horns droop over the table!

Mr. X, the talk about drinks reminded me of something. Slightly offtopic, but anyway; I really like a cappuccino or just coffee in general. When my dad orders a soft drink instead of coffee, our drinks are often mixed up, lol.

For the rest... never really noticed those things too much, but then again, I don't eat out that often, and if I do so it's often with my parents (who have the very nasty tendency to out me without them noticing. They ALWAYS have to tell their DAUGHTER is with them. Please, use "child" or something, ugh!) but then again, I have a varied taste. I love rice, fish, soups and chicken, but nothing is better than a well prepared, juicy (especially the 'juicy' part) beef. Omnomnom!

Funny is that when I don't try to be nice, people gender me correctly more often. One day I was having a super bad mood and someone asked me the way, I just grumbled "straight till crossroads, then left" or something, in a very uninviting tone, and they replied with "Thank you sir". *sigh* STEREOTYPES!

Quote from: Cindy on August 27, 2013, 05:52:46 AM

That must be cultural. In Adelaide wine is wine, doesn't matter the colour, guys drink white or red and girls drink white or red. No one gives a damn, everyone drinks wine!

I've faced bullying and criticism here in the UK for my choice of drink, if it isn't considered 'manly' enough. It's different on the gay scene, but in everyday bars & restaurants I've had friends accuse me of being too girly if I order wine or something with fruit in it. The truth is: I hate beer, but I love cider. It's just that many, many restaurants and bars sell revolting cider so I often have to order something else, like wine.

Whenever my friends rib me for ordering a girly drink, I just stick my tongue out at them and explain that guys who like guys are entitled to as girly a drink as we fancy!

Quote from: Cindy on August 27, 2013, 05:52:46 AM

That must be cultural. In Adelaide wine is wine, doesn't matter the colour, guys drink white or red and girls drink white or red. No one gives a damn, everyone drinks wine!

lol  I just had to laugh out loud, Cindy - thinking of Adelaide, the city of winos!

Quote from: Cindy on August 27, 2013, 05:52:46 AMKreuzfidel, have you and your wife gone to Elephant and Castle on the corner of West Tce South Tce. Great salad bar and steaks to just look at and say OMG!

Must go back there!!! Steer on a plate I think our USA friends would say. Just let the horns droop over the table!

No, we certainly haven't!  I think that may be a great idea for our anniversary!!! 

I noticed something else after going out to a couple of different night clubs. When a girl buys a drink, they give her a straw. But when a guy buys a drink, he doesnt get one! I thought that maybe it depended on the drink, since a lot of girls buy sweeter alcohol while a lot of men go for something stronger and drinking that with a straw would taste bad. When I bought a plain glass of coke, I got no straw. But when my friend (who is female) bought me the exact same thing from the same place, they put a straw in the cup! Also, I have never seen a guy drinking from a straw at a night club. It was interesting

I've been waiting staff for over two years now, and there's definitely some correlation between men and meat, and women with poultry and fish.  We've started offering a choice of red cabbage, salad or vegetables recently, and it's normally then men who have red cabbage or veg, and the women who have salad, unless it's something where one of the options just wouldn't go well, like a pie and salad.

I do expect the men to have the heartier, meatier things, so I might look towards them when asking who's having a meat dish, or I might just look at whoever replied to me when I greeted them, depends on whether I've spoken to them before.  I wouldn't dream of putting the food down before they'd told me who was having what though, because it makes me look a fool when I get it wrong, and you never really know.  Unless it's our Monday regulars, because I know that David will have the pie or steak with chips and veg, and Linda will have the other, often fish or crab, with salad and new potatoes (except this week they swapped the salad and the veg over and it confused the life out of me, I thought the order had been written wrong!  We got a good laugh out of that when I checked we'd got it right with them).

Other random observations I've made are that men are generally English mustard and ketchup people, while women are Mayonnaise, and if they have mustard, Dijon.  I'm surprised at how many men order cappuccinos though, I thought that was a "woman's drink".  Women rarely have real ale in my experience, but I don't blame them, none of the locals will go near the stuff for fear of severe repercussions in their stomachs for the next few days.  We did rib one of the locals a lot when he occasionally had a martini, but it was just part of his oddballness, and he was normally too drunk to probably even remember he'd had one by the time he ordered it, between asking for glasses of water and flicking it at everyone and trying to get non-swimmers to go skinny dipping.

As for me, my girlfriend's always laughing at me because I LIKE MEAT.  RAWR!  I get meat withdrawals if I haven't had any in a while.  Although I don't like sausages or burgers with herbs and all that rubbish in, if I wanted something to taste like a leaf I'd go into the garden and chew on the grass.

my youngest brother likes meat. when he was around 15, he suddenly decided to go vegetarian, for some unintelligible reason. sure, i said, and cooked delicious, varied, nutritious vegetarian food. i was in heaven, my body isn't made for digesting meat, at least not if it's cooked, but my brother broke down and gave in after only a month. suddenly one day, my mother had prepared some good steak for them.

but other men tend to prefer fish. fresh fish, can't get any better food that that. there's even a saying "meat is meat and fish is food". when i was arranging a conference earlier this year, they pretty much demanded that i ordered fish for dinner. no point ordering meat outside the hunting season, the people here care about quality.

Most of these things are pretty much cultural expectations that are pretty much B.S. A good diet is esp important on T as high blood pressure and high cholesterol are concerns. Increasing fruits and veggies and eating less fat and sugar is important. Actually lowered my cholesterol, which wasn't sky high, on T from an improved diet (my diet was never terrible). I feel great too with better diet and more exercise.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on August 27, 2013, 10:46:19 AM
Increasing fruits and veggies and eating less fat and sugar is important.

not so much fruit, it contains too much sugar. vegetables (raw or not overcooked) for the vitamins they contain, and berries for antioxidants. wild berries should be better than cultivated ones. fruits should only be eaten instead of other snacks.

I guess men in Finland are somewhat expected to love, or at least like, red meat in all forms. I don't, I prefer chicken because I have childhood "traumas" about red meat. Besides, I don't like the taste most of the time.

It's more common to talk about how all men love to drink beer here. Another stereotype that I break, I hate that stuff.

Man food?  Rubbish!

I'm a vegetarian, so I suppose that's a bit "girly" of me. There's still a stereotype in Sweden that men like meat and greasy food, and that women are supposed to like chicken, fish and salads to "stay slim" or some other rubbish like that. I like some healthy foods, like wholegrain rice and such, in part because it tastes good and also because I can stay fuller while eating less of it. Healthy food is also seen as somewhat feminine.