Four years ago the magazine I ran, nurtured and grew, failed as a result of the economy but more specifically, our competitor. There is only room for one type of this niche women's publication in my city. Well, Tuesday, I have a job interview with the competitor. I'm perfect for the job as they wouldn't have to train me or anything and they know how good I am at what i do because we competed for so long.

But, and there is huge butt, and it's my own. I don't pass as male. I guess I could if I didn't shave but you need to shave for an interview. I imagine they looked me up on FB or LinkedIN and I don't look masculine in any respect in those photos. But now it is nearly impossible to look masculine. Plus they are like exactly four blocks from the gender clinic. I think it is simply impossible for someone to not know I am a transsexual woman. I have to wear a suit I guess and I have lost like 15 lbs since I bought that. I am not looking forward to wearing it. It fit like five months ago but I don't know about now. I did have like A cups when I bought it in 2011 but now I hace full C cups and my shouder muscles are melting away ever since I started progesterone.

I am not really sure what I am trying to ask other then how should I approach this and should I cut my hair? I just dyed it auburn and it's finally getting long enough to not have to wear that stupid hat I wear. So I really don't want to but I want this job. I need it. But then again I'm not going to stop taking hormones for the job or even slow down or taper my dose. No is the answer to that. So they are going to find out the second I step out of the suit as I feel like that will kinda obscure my boobs but I should really check. Binding is not an option as they are too sensitive. If I wear a bra that is too tight they hurt. I don't want to be wincing when they ask questions.

It's not like I am going to be the public face of the magazine or anything. Everything I will be doing is behind closed doors. the jobs is really suited for a female and they are interviewing three other people and I would bet $10,000 they are all 28 year old women or moms looking for a job. So it's not like my lack of masculinity will be a factor in that respect and everyone who works at the office is female.

I mean they can't come out and ask me if I'm trans but I just sold something on Craigslist and I havent shaved and Im dressed male and the guy kept staring at my chest. He looked confused. That's what happens if I don't present female. Obviously, this was my exact goal and I am ecstatic it's going so well but I'd also like a job.

Comments are welcome. What do you think? Any thoughts?

I'm not the best person to comment on this because I've been struggling to find work; however, I would suggest trying not to focus too much on your appearance.  As long as you look presentable, I think you'll be okay.  Just try to show them why you are the right person for the job.  Why you fit in the position.

If you want to look more masculine and pass as male, try these suggestions.  Wear a suit and tie.  I do this for pretty much every interview as it is standard interview attire.  If you wear a sports bra and a sports jacket, your breasts may not be as noticeable.  Perhaps, also try to have a well kept beard.  Believe me, I understand the dyphoria issue, but having a slight beard that is maintained would help you pass and wouldn't be a deterrent either.  Your hair is short enough for it to be fine as it is.  With all of that going on, I don't think they would doubt your gender even if you are feminine.

So if they hired you, what would you do about going to work? How would you present then?  Do you intend to try to keep the fact that you are transitioning from them in order to get the job, then spring it on them shortly after?

Joanna,
If you have really big boobs as you describe, that would certainly be a problem trying to pass as a male or it would at least raise some questions.  However, I would really guess that if you have not yet done definitive beard removal and can still talk with a male voice, going with just a little beard shadow and your hair tied back should be enough to eliminate any doubts about your gender.

I was hired as a guy looking very like I do in my avatar photo, I just wasn't wearing a dress and my hair, while already much longer than most people in my situation, was not as long as it is now. I think that by any standards, I look pretty feminine yet since most people don't think transgender for a second, until I came out, while people did notice my unusual appearance, they had never associated it with anything in particular.

End of the day though, given everything you say about how you can no longer pass as a guy, why don't you just present as you?
Best of luck whatever you decide to do!
Donna

Wear what is appropriate to look nice. Male or female or in between I would hire someone based on how well they sold themselves. At least that's how we often hire in the south.

Well, that suit will make You look ridiculous - I know, because I just gave away three L sized jackets in which I looked... weird. In fact I look weird in everything which is L size now. So, if You can - go for smart casual instead, which is perfectly OK for job interviews and You dont have to wear a suit there - loose male cardigan might work as well and it could be loose enough to conceal Your most forward parts .
As regards Your hair - either tie it together in the back as Donna suggested, or go for that sleazy look - use lots of hair gel and comb it back... Essentially You will look like You had been licked and kissed by a cow, but a lot of men actually wear that style daily.

If it's a woman's magazine, run and operated by mostly if not all women, and if you had run a similar magazine as their competitor, then what's to keep you from coming on staff as you are and making it clear to the woman who does the hiring that you are in transition? I would think that she would decide to hire you based more on what you are bringing to the company, after all you don't come empty handed and have a wealth of experience, rather than balk at your tween gender status. It would be easier on her and clarify things to her and her staff right up front rather than having to come out later on the job as if you had been fooling them all along and leave them with the impression that you hired in under false pretenses. Having managed a business in the past, that would be the way I'd be looking at it. As long as you can be an asset and help them be profitable, your personal situation isn't important unless you are gross, smell bad or are a detriment to the safety and security of the company.

Quote from: learningtolive on August 31, 2013, 01:47:00 PM
If you wear a sports bra and a sports jacket, your breasts may not be as noticeable.  Perhaps, also try to have a well kept beard.  Believe me, I understand the dyphoria issue, but having a slight beard that is maintained would help you pass and wouldn't be a deterrent either.  Your hair is short enough for it to be fine as it is.  With all of that going on, I don't think they would doubt your gender even if you are feminine.

Well I can't grow a beard and it would look horrid if I tried. I don't grow facial hair on my cheeks and it would take me four months to grow a beard that is anything close to presentable. i had a freind once and I suspect she suspected I was trans or flat out knew but one time I was like I should grow a beard and she shrieked "don't ever do that. you would would look so awkward with a beard. Plus, my mom would flip out and make me shave. It's a good suggestion if I could pull it off but I can't.

Quote from: Donna Elvira on August 31, 2013, 01:52:25 PM
Joanna,
If you have really big boobs as you describe, that would certainly be a problem trying to pass as a male or it would at least raise some questions.  However, I would really guess that if you have not yet done definitive beard removal and can still talk with a male voice, going with just a little beard shadow and your hair tied back should be enough to eliminate any doubts about your gender.

My voice is fine. It is the definition of androgynous and my normal speaking pitch accorting to PRAAT is 150 hz. If I lower it, it sounds weird. It's not a problem. The major problem is the breasts and smiling. When I smile my cheeks bunch up and i makes me look really femme. And I have to smile and won't be able to stop myself. i fall into a zone.

I wouldn't be as worried about this if every single time I present as male on the streets people whisper things and I can them and sometimes they do not even try to hide what they are saying. "That's a girl. I'm telling you. There's no way it's a guy." That is with a jacket on and my breats eeffectively hidden. Maybe I am making a mountain out of a molehill.

Quote from: some old bag lady on August 31, 2013, 01:52:08 PM
So if they hired you, what would you do about going to work? How would you present then?  Do you intend to try to keep the fact that you are transitioning from them in order to get the job, then spring it on them shortly after?

Oh god I didn't even think of this. being stuck in a suit day in and day out sounds like a nightmare. I'm sure it is a casual office so I doubt it would be like that but wihtout a jacket, I encounter this probelm. How do I tell them? It sounds deceitful.

I'm not doubting they will know I am genetically male, I'm doubting that they won't take one look at me and think "woah, he is a she." I met my one friend a coupel months back and I presented as male. male cloths and everything but I didn't bind. I can't it hurts. He was one the phone and he didn't make any awkward looks so I was like great "he has no idea." Then he gets off the phone and says "When did you become a woman? Did you get imlants? There's no way hormones did that. You should told me this is awesome." I'm a journalist so I pride myself on remembering conversations.

Quote from: Christine167 on August 31, 2013, 02:12:53 PM
Wear what is appropriate to look nice. Male or female or in between I would hire someone based on how well they sold themselves. At least that's how we often hire in the south.

This is what i am hoping. There is no one more qualified to do this job in all of Philadelphia then me.  No one. And if there is they prolly already have a job.

The other thing is my old publisher was really competitive with the woman who owns this magazine. I came on board after that so it shouldn't effect me. But the hiring manager and owner know exactly who i am.

I won't lie I am kind of hoping they bring it up. Ya know tell me to not dress like a man. Or that I have choice. People either think I am a woman, a dyke, or a transsexual. There is no option D.

Hey Joanna I almost feel like teasing you a little bit but this is serious work to live stuff.  What about those famous civil protections in that fabulous Philly you love?  I agree with other commenters that your presentation matters but we want you to remain out and proud regardless.
I suggest that your skills, confidence and abilities will shine through and make your case.  Would you really wana work there and be in stealth mode?

Quote from: -Emily- on August 31, 2013, 02:40:04 PM
Well, that suit will make You look ridiculous - I know, because I just gave away three L sized jackets in which I looked... weird. In fact I look weird in everything which is L size now.

I don't have anything else. I do have a nice outfit but it's a woman's outfit. They're expecting a man. I don't want to shock and awe them.

Quote from: Shantel on August 31, 2013, 02:50:53 PM
If it's a woman's magazine, run and operated by mostly if not all women, and if you had run a similar magazine as their competitor, then what's to keep you from coming on staff as you are and making it clear to the woman who does the hiring that you are in transition? I would think that she would decide to hire you based more on what you are bringing to the company, after all you don't come empty handed and have a wealth of experience, rather than balk at your tween gender status. It would be easier on her and clarify things to her and her staff right up front rather than having to come out later on the job as if you had been fooling them all along and leave them with the impression that you hired in under false pretenses. Having managed a business in the past, that would be the way I'd be looking at it. As long as you can be an asset and help them be profitable, your personal situation isn't important unless you are gross, smell bad or are a detriment to the safety and security of the company.

Yeah hit the nail on the head. Bu how and when do i tell them I am transitioning? How di I let them know that I am a normal person. It would be impossible for them to not know what a transsexual is as they are located in the heart of Philadelphia's Gayborhood and four blocks from the Mazzoni Center. I am bound to run into them near there as I have an appointment with my case manager and bloodwork Friday.

This is what worries me: when i dress as a woman people treat me so so nice and like me or like me too much. I apparently pass very well and am really lucky. When I present as male: the whispers start and people say weird things. I passed as male the other day but not without being called Boy George. I was dressed in normal male clothes.

My mom says I won't get a job because no one will hire me with the way I look. It's really insulting and pisses me off. I was wearing skinny jeans and my boobs were sticking out when she said this so there is that. But it felt like she meant my overall apperance not my dress that day.

The other problem is I am not thinking properly. My BF is treating me weird and not returning my call and brushing me off and it's making me really upset. I mean we have planned for months to move in together as soon as I get a job and now I have the best chance to get one and we could actually do this and he is acting funny. He hasn't even talked to me since i told him but he did have court yesterday so I understand and I know he likes his independence so I feel like if I start acting how I usually act, he will leave me. My ex used to say when I get upset I act just like a girl and it is not on purpose but he is not going to like it. Ugh.

Quote from: Tessa James on August 31, 2013, 03:15:53 PM
Hey Joanna I almost feel like teasing you a little bit but this is serious work to live stuff.  What about those famous civil protections in that fabulous Philly you love?  I agree with other commenters that your presentation matters but we want you to remain out and proud regardless.
I suggest that your skills, confidence and abilities will shine through and make your case.  Would you really wana work there and be in stealth mode?

No i don't want to work in stealth as male that is for sure. That's not why I transitioned. And it simply is not feasible regardless as evryone says the real changes begin after the six month mark and it's been exactly six months. So I prolly will get even more feminine soon and I can see it happening. I'm getting new stretch marks on my boobs, hips, and butt so I know it isn't my imagination. But it's hard to distinguish them.

But I won't lie I don't want to be out and proud. In fact, I just want to get a job as a trans woman long enough to get references and change all my paper work. Then I will move to another city and I will never, ever ever tell anyone, not even any man, that I am a transsexual.

that is actually true! take a look here, philadelphia now has employee protection for adhering to the dress code of one's gender identity.

Joanna forgive me for using the term stealth as I recall we have engaged in discussion about this before and I completely respect your choice about self identity and being out.  I do sense pride and self esteem in your posts and I am just a month behind you in the HRT process.  Yes we experience major and dynamic changes with details that suggest it may still be a challenge for some to fly for life under everyones trans radar?

Best of luck girl, show em what you can do!

Quote from: Tessa James on August 31, 2013, 03:44:24 PM
Joanna forgive me for using the term stealth as I recall we have engaged in discussion about this before and I completely respect your choice about self identity and being out.  I do sense pride and self esteem in your posts and I am just a month behind you in the HRT process. 

No apology necessary lol but yeah i'm pretty proud of myself jk lol well not really.

Buy yeah I just talked to my BF and I am glad I didn't send some overly possessive, psycho chick text which is something that has dogged me for a long time. But he said that he doesn't think I can pass as male. He said there is no way they won't know. He doesn't think there is a thing I can do about it. I feel like I look a lot more femme in person then in pics so you really don't see the whole package. He literally started stumbing with his words when he tried to figure out what i could do and then said no "you have giant tits you can't hide them." lol

I think you should be honest and go as you, a woman. They may be expecting a man but there is no way you will pull that off now. And like others said what about the future if you are hired there?

  The truth will set you free.Be who you really are then you will never have to worry about the future.Also you could bring another dimension to the magazine just a random thought that possibly could be used.I read women's magazines it would be nice to see some articles for us and I would buy it just for that reason.Sell your self not as who you are, but as to the value you can bring to the company.  Hugs  Pat 

Quote from: Bethany Dawn on August 31, 2013, 03:58:14 PM
I think you should be honest and go as you, a woman. They may be expecting a man but there is no way you will pull that off now. And like others said what about the future if you are hired there?

I thought about this but my gut tells me I should present male. I don't know I'm starting to get sick to my stomach at the thought of going. I'm also pretty sure my BF is about to leave me. I have been on hormones for six months, which when I started was my drop dead date for deciding if this was the right path. I mean I know it is but now with this job, my heart breaking, and this whole uncertainty that I have cast over my life it's making me ill. It just feels like I won't get this job and I would've gotten it if I hadn't transitioned and that my broken heart wouldn't be breaking all over again if I hadn't foolishly let someone in, which is only the result of the libido I have acquired thru hormone therapy. But maybe I'm wrong: maybe he won't leave me, maybe I will get the job, and maybe I will live happily ever after. It's a whole lot'a maybes.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 31, 2013, 08:17:42 PM
I thought about this but my gut tells me I should present male. I don't know I'm starting to get sick to my stomach at the thought of going. I'm also pretty sure my BF is about to leave me. I have been on hormones for six months, which when I started was my drop dead date for deciding if this was the right path. I mean I know it is but now with this job, my heart breaking, and this whole uncertainty that I have cast over my life it's making me ill. It just feels like I won't get this job and I would've gotten it if I hadn't transitioned and that my broken heart wouldn't be breaking all over again if I hadn't foolishly let someone in, which is only the result of the libido I have acquired thru hormone therapy. But maybe I'm wrong: maybe he won't leave me, maybe I will get the job, and maybe I will live happily ever after. It's a whole lot'a maybes.

I understand what you mean.  If I really tried, I probably could have found a decent position somewhere in Washington DC this year.  However, I knew that transitioning would have had to be put on the back burner.  For me, that just wasn't an option.  So I stayed where I am and hoped for the best. 

In your case, I think you can aquire the job while continuing to transition.  It isn't easy of course, but it's possible.  I'm sure you pass very well, but couldn't you try putting on a suit and styling your hair in a masculine way?  It really could work.  I do know it's hard to cover the girls (I'm starting to learn that the hard way); nonetheless, dressing in layers could work.  That's why I suggested a sports jacket and sports bra. 

Look job interview are hard enough.  You shouldn't have to worry about your appearance.  Whether you go as yourself or not really isn't all that relevant.  As long as you are presentable to your prospective employer, it won't be an issue.  What kind of magazine is this?  Is it a feminist mag or something more general?  What's their general societal outlook?

As for your boyfriend, don't let it get to you.  If it isn't meant to be, that isn't the end of romance in your life.  In the meantime, don't let unknowns crush you and maintain open communication with him.  Learn about how he feels and don't rely on assumptions. 

Jo

Stop stressing so much and just focus on the task at hand.
Just be you and do the best you can.
You can't do any more.

Is it worth ringing them prior to the interview and having a chat?
Do you have a female suit that could pass as male? Could you get one?
Be truthful to them. It could just make it so much easier.

Anyway from what you say you have everything they want so that is so much more important than anything else.
Be confident, rehearse your answers to questions they might have, and oh be yourself. They don't want to hire some one pretending.
I have done many interviews and have seen unprepared people, nervous people. They don't get the job, simple as that.
I have also see the people interviewing not being prepared. Would I want to work for them? No.

Re the BF side I have no eye deer sorry.

All the best
Jen

Quote from: learningtolive on August 31, 2013, 08:29:33 PM
It really could work.  I do know it's hard to cover the girls (I'm starting to learn that the hard way); nonetheless, dressing in layers could work.  That's why I suggested a sports jacket and sports bra. 

No, I tried the suit on and while it was big on me which emphasizes my being tiny, I passed as male just fine. But i also haven't shaved in days and have no makeup on. I can not not shave for the interview. Now, I don't have to wear foundation but then again, I look a lot better with it on. But I'm not sure how much foundation wil help or hurt. It's the shaving.

But yeah I pass very well as male. I think. Of course, I think this depresses me even more. If I pull the shirt out though and take the tie off I no longer pass and look like a stole my husband's suit. So I'm not sure. I always think I look 100 percent male and then guys hit on me and everyone calls me miss.

The problem is I am not going to wear a suit everyday and if they ask me to take my coat off, boobs. The other thing is my eyebrows. They're extremely feminine.

I'll tell you the truth: I want to be outted as trans and I want them to notice so I don't have to hide. What would be worse then not getting the job, is getting it and having to go to work as male day in and day out. The thought of it makes me want to vomit.

I have no idea. I'll just go, do my best, appear like I am though in a suit.

Quote from: learningtolive on August 31, 2013, 08:29:33 PM
As for your boyfriend, don't let it get to you.  If it isn't meant to be, that isn't the end of romance in your life.  In the meantime, don't let unknowns crush you and maintain open communication with him.  Learn about how he feels and don't rely on assumptions. 

It's not that easy. I feel like I am in love and just the other day everything was so great and we were dancing and holding hands and now, nothing. He emailed me this morning, which was normal and then I don't know. He is hanging out with his stupid friend so I am actually just upset he didn't want to hang out with me. He isn't living in Philly right now for complicated reasons I can't explain but I only see him like once a week and he only texted me yesterday at like midnight saying he was ok or whatever and then he was all cold today. I know when something is wrong. I can feel it. I feel like he is just going to cut me off. End of story. He told me he has done this to other people when they annoy him and that's it. he did this to me once before when we first met and I felt something wrong and he eventually did tell me that he once decided that he doesn't want anything to do with me.

I mean I know he is attracted to me as ya know, it isn't hard to tell when a guy is attracted lol and he told me he always gets boners around me so yeah. The problem is that he is straight and I am ya know not a genetic girl and not post op. It's sooooo frustrating.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 31, 2013, 11:06:57 PM
No, I tried the suit on and while it was big on me which emphasizes my being tiny, I passed as male just fine. But i also haven't shaved in days and have no makeup on. I can not not shave for the interview. Now, I don't have to wear foundation but then again, I look a lot better with it on. But I'm not sure how much foundation wil help or hurt. It's the shaving.

But yeah I pass very well as male. I think. Of course, I think this depresses me even more. If I pull the shirt out though and take the tie off I no longer pass and look like a stole my husband's suit. So I'm not sure. I always think I look 100 percent male and then guys hit on me and everyone calls me miss.

The problem is I am not going to wear a suit everyday and if they ask me to take my coat off, boobs. The other thing is my eyebrows. They're extremely feminine.

I'll tell you the truth: I want to be outted as trans and I want them to notice so I don't have to hide. What would be worse then not getting the job, is getting it and having to go to work as male day in and day out. The thought of it makes me want to vomit.

I have no idea. I'll just go, do my best, appear like I am though in a suit.

It's not that easy. I feel like I am in love and just the other day everything was so great and we were dancing and holding hands and now, nothing. He emailed me this morning, which was normal and then I don't know. He is hanging out with his stupid friend so I am actually just upset he didn't want to hang out with me. He isn't living in Philly right now for complicated reasons I can't explain but I only see him like once a week and he only texted me yesterday at like midnight saying he was ok or whatever and then he was all cold today. I know when something is wrong. I can feel it. I feel like he is just going to cut me off. End of story. He told me he has done this to other people when they annoy him and that's it. he did this to me once before when we first met and I felt something wrong and he eventually did tell me that he once decided that he doesn't want anything to do with me.

I mean I know he is attracted to me as ya know, it isn't hard to tell when a guy is attracted lol and he told me he always gets boners around me so yeah. The problem is that he is straight and I am ya know not a genetic girl and not post op. It's sooooo frustrating.

Well, you could come out after getting the job.  Honestly, I think coming out after the fact are the best option you have.  Keep in mind most interviewers are interested in perceived problems and don't care about your issues.  They want to see why your fit for the job.  I think presenting as female without a matching name is only going to create issues in the interview.  Sure, coming out after the fact is a bit deceptive, but you will have the job.  Having said that, I could be wrong on this.  You are further in your transition that I am, so I can't be too much help.  I can only offer my opinion. 

I don't want to make assumptions about your boyfriend, but he sounds a bit cold if he is willing to drop you like that and rarely finds time for you.  IT doesn't matter if you are trans.  You will find someone who respects you.  Do you feel your boyfriend does?  That's important to know.  If he doesn't, I wouldn't worry about him and would further investigate if that's a relationship worth investing more time in. Again, I don't know everything, so I don't want to make assumptions. Just some food for thought.

By the way, my friend is trans and her boyfriend is always begging her to spend more time together.   Believe me, there are guys out there who will love you for who you are.  It just may take some time to find them.  Though, I do understand the fear.  I'm scared that I'll never find the guy for me.  Why do men have to be so complicated?!