I'm having a disagreement with my spouse and I feel pretty strongly that she's arguing from misinformation. I'd appreciate the input of those more knowledgeable to help me resolve this.

I would like to start HRT ASAP. I have an endo referral in the works and, assuming that leads to a px, I intend to fill it. My wife, however, is pressing me to delay for a year. Her priority is moving back to the big city and she is very concerned that by transitioning in a conservative, small town, we will be ostracized here and I'll never get the decent job references I need to get out.

My proposed compromise is start HRT, but delay any kind of workplace transition until we can move (a year, maybe two). She's convinced that this isn't possible. I suspect strongly that it is. I'm 32 years old and not exactly starting from the feminine end of the spectrum.

So my question is this, how long could I reasonably continue to work in male mode while on HRT? At what point would things simple become impossible to hide?

Maddy

You are not going to like this answer but - your mileage may vary. You might never know how susceptible Your body will be towards estradiol so... Given that You admit that Your starting point is not very feminine and You absolutely do not in tend to start extensive weight loss programme, then that might buy You some time. If You do not proceed with other explicit and visual indicators, like plucking out eyebrows to the extend when they are unmistakably female, wearing make-up everywhere etc - then only boobies might be the ones which could betray You. As for me - I am 35 now - and I dont know how much time I have left. I have heard that 5th month is sort of major landmark after which everything just spirals up... At the moment, I am often being asked to reveal my secret how I suddenly look 5-10 years younger and how I managed to loose a lot of weight fast. One friend of mine got an idea that I might be having cancer, because I keep loosing weight, falling out of cloth sizes and my face suddenly looks narrower. I sometimes get confused looks from complete strangers, but honestly, I do not make much effort to pass as a male - I am somewhere in the androgynous style now. So, people do notice, but most probably they wont get an idea what is going on. As long as You can provide decent explanations - You should be able to pull this off.. plus, those who see You everyday are the ones which are the least likely to see Your changes.

Hi Maddy,

Good question and you know a big part of the answer is going to be predicated on what your individual responses are to HRT and self acceptance.  Many in transition here complain or worry about not making progress fast enough while we have a current sister who is even thinking about a breast binder since she is getting a generous response to HRT and is not out at work.  The local wisdom speaks to looking at your mom or sisters for a biological prediction.
On the emotional front I am transitioning in a very rural small town area and have had very supportive responses or indifference.  My fears were way exaggerated after decades of repression and reinforcement.  I also started out thinking and actually pledging to my wife that I could stop, delay or turn back.  Oh girl was I naive!  My lightning bolts of self recognition were powerful and I quickly found myself completely at peace with transitioning and absolutely disinterested in ever going back into that dark closet.  The effects of HRT on your emotional world, well?
It seems so wonderfully different for many of us and for the non binary or non op transgender person there may actually be greater latitude in presentation and expectations.  Look at the profound interest here in  "do I pass" or before and after pics.  It really seems tough to predict what will happen for you on your individual life path.
That your wife and you are still together and planning a future together is promising.  Are you in a corporate arena that recognizes work place protections and rights?  Do you belong to professional organizations as an employee or volunteer that could be sources of positive references?  Friends or connected family members in your network?  I once convinced myself I could not be transgender because I was also so far from the feminine end of the looks spectrum.  You may be surprised by how little that matters to you down the road.

Big warm Hugs

FPWADR

It depends what prep work you have done.

For instance, I have been getting laser for over a year now on my face to remove a very heavy facial growth.
Still some left but mostly gone. Having facial hair will prolong you to be able to present male even when on HRT.

Presenting as female will be easier with it gone however.

No one has said anything to me about the diminishing facial hair so it's interesting what people notice.
Before and after pictures would be very noticeable.
My therapist has not said anything but I will be pointing it out next week.

After yesterday therapy session HRT is a bit closer and form what I have seen some can pas prior to starting while others find it difficult even after 6 months.
There was a post here by Sarah Anne and she made it only 3 months or so after starting. Sarah has made wonderful progress.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,124374.0.html

Hope this helps

Jen

it depends.....some m2f's on hrt can only keep passing as male a few months, others a year or more, and some continue to pass as male for the rest of their lives despite not wanting to.....

Depends on what kind of male are you trying to pass as a normal straight male? At eight and a half months on hrt I couldn't pass as a straight male if my life depended on it.
But I'm not trying to pass as one either and I kind of help it along. The physical things are kind of easy to hide but the emotional and mental changes are not as easy to hide and they will start showing up when you least expect it.
I would say you really don't have much time to hide theses changes a couple of months maybe but they will eventually get people talking about you. At this point I don't even know how to pretend to be a male anymore. I really don't know how men think anymore I didn't really understand before but now I'm clueless to how to behave like one now. 

Well I'm a year FT.

As Jenny mentioned it also depends on how you present, and of course how quickly your body changes.

I had to start wearing a bra for comfort and protection after about a month on HT, difficult to hide at that point

Kia Ora,

I know of a Dutch trans-woman who had her surgery and was also on HRT for twenty years but still lived and worked as a male(her family and friends outside her work knew) but it would seem her work colleagues were none the wiser...However she's since started to live openly as a female...

So as others have already mentioned YMMV (It also depends on how good you are at "camouflage" )

Metta Zenda

Thank you all for your replies. I can't say they leave me feeling terribly confident about the idea of delaying public transition.

Maddy

I started HRT at 32 as well. In the end, I had to come out at work sooner than I had planned, because I was fielding too many questions and my breasts were just about to the tipping point where it was binding (a big no-no for developing boobs) or admit to their existence.

I went on low-dose HRT in February of 2010, and had to confess at least to my supervisor and big boss by May. (The actual transition at work ended up being early June, but by then my immediate coworkers had mostly figured it out.) If I'd waited to August as I had intended, I would have found myself both needing to hide nearly D-cup breasts and read more than half the time as female even in male clothes [by strangers] for at least 4 months.

So I'd say there's a huge "it depends," of course, since everyone's body chemistry and responsiveness is different... but you probably should have at least a backup plan in case hiding it for a year doesn't work. I could *maybe* have pulled it off for six months, with increasingly extreme measures. I would not recommend assuming that it's absolutely going to be possible to wait a year, much less two, in a situation where people guessing/gossiping has a high risk of an awful outcome.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on August 31, 2013, 06:23:08 PM
If I'd waited to August as I had intended, I would have found myself both needing to hide nearly D-cup breasts and read more than half the time as female even in male clothes [by strangers] for at least 4 months.

Family genetics suggests that things won't be quite as pronounced. Still...

Quote from: Jenna Marie on August 31, 2013, 06:23:08 PM
So I'd say there's a huge "it depends," of course, since everyone's body chemistry and responsiveness is different... but you probably should have at least a backup plan in case hiding it for a year doesn't work. I could *maybe* have pulled it off for six months, with increasingly extreme measures. I would not recommend assuming that it's absolutely going to be possible to wait a year, much less two, in a situation where people guessing/gossiping has a high risk of an awful outcome.

Thank you for being frank. I feel well-advised. (+1)

Quote from: Fairy Princess with a Death Ray on August 31, 2013, 02:30:57 PM
I'm 32 years old and not exactly starting from the feminine end of the spectrum.

So my question is this, how long could I reasonably continue to work in male mode while on HRT? At what point would things simple become impossible to hide?

Maddy

Well I'm around the same age and I am been pretty responsive to hormones but I also most likely have some type of condition as I had small boobs and a butt and before HRT I basically looked like a dyke. So, IMO, a lot of where you end up depends on where you start. But that isn't a rule.

I grossly miscalculated just how long I would have before anyone noticed stuff based on internet postings of potential progress and based on my age, 30. I thought i'd have ample time, a year, maybe more before anyone noticed. By three months, I passed if I shaved and was being she'd in male clothes. Now, at six months, i pass as one of two things: a woman or a trans woman. So now I'm stuck with the unenviable task of telling people my status.

But, honestly, could it be your wife doesn't want you to take hormones?

Thanks for the rep change.

Scariest part? My mother's a 34B and super slender, no curves. I had ZERO idea I was gonna (apparently) take after women on my dad's side of the family, most of whom I'd never seen when young.

Good luck.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 31, 2013, 06:29:01 PM
But, honestly, could it be your wife doesn't want you to take hormones?

Yellingly, screamingly, beggingly, bargainingly so 

Quote from: Fairy Princess with a Death Ray on August 31, 2013, 06:31:25 PM
Yellingly, screamingly, beggingly, bargainingly so 

This as you know will be a problem. If she is this unaccepting I think you need to realise the chances of the relationship being maintained could be very slim.

Quote from: Cindy on August 31, 2013, 06:40:40 PM
This as you know will be a problem. If she is this unaccepting I think you need to realise the chances of the relationship being maintained could be very slim.

I think you're right.

She tells me that she wants to stay together and work things out. However, every attempt that I make, however subtle, to push the boundary on presentation comes at the cost of hours or negotiation, reams of negativity, and counterarguments of specious validity fires as from a gattling gun. Her idea of work things out seems to be "wear me down until I change my mind." Which can't happen. 

Maddy

I'm 50 so i'm on the "mature" side of the equation. I started with low dose HRT around 46 and after several years i've got solid A cups and my butt has filled out some. I was told for years that I have a "baby face" and that is where I see most of the changes, and aside from boobs that's the place where I think that other people will see changes in you.

If i put on makeup i undoubtedly see a girl staring back at me in the mirror. I do my boy routine in the morning I see a guy there, so my face has changed a lot. Its like a previous poster said - people that see you every day will see the changes in your face and may start commenting on the fact that you "look better" or that you've lost weight or ask if you are sick, but it's my opinion that no one will likely catch on to whats really happening. And if someone does get nosy just tell them that it's a private medical matter and you'd rather not discuss it.

I think you'd probably be able to go for quite a while with a male hair style and with some undershirts or baggy shirts at work, but your mileage may vary!

Quote from: Eva Marie on August 31, 2013, 06:54:04 PM
I think you'd probably be able to go for quite a while with a male hair style

Actually, this brings up an important factor. I have virtually no hair. I hate being bald, but even with finasteride, it should help keep me passable, right?

Quote from: Glitterfly on August 31, 2013, 06:51:02 PM
She's being selfish. She doesn't want you to be happy, she wants to hold on to her 'property' with all she's got. I don't think that's healthy. You might have to consider the possibility that the relationship can't continue... But based on what you said I think that thought might already be at the back of your mind.

Sorry if I sound unduly negative. 

Last week, she explained that she considers my transitioning a form of suicide. After that, I'm honestly having trouble finding reasons to give her the benefit of the doubt.

This is one of the main reasons I have not been in a relationship since my partners accident in 2007, it's just too hard for them to cope, if it lasted long enough.

I didn't want to hurt someone I might care about.

It's difficult being alone but at least I can be me.

No it's not Zapp. I never cared about him.