Hi again, folks. If you're irritated by my repeated whining, I apologize, please have mercy upon my distressed soul. This portion is me trying to figure out what all is going down. Firstly, I'd like to ask permission, even if from the mods (if required) if one of the rules can be overlooked regarding the inability to tell someone you believe them to suffer from dysphoria or not. If backed with reason, I'd like to have an honest answer, not some forced "You definitely are!". I'm not sure if that can be a thing or not, but since the rule's purpose is intended to save the emotions of whoever the target being judged is and it's my emotions on the table, can I offer them up? I really am looking for analytical thought and truthful opinion over emotional support.

Ok, now, I'm going to try to pin gender dysphoria and what is actually going on internally, give data in an organized manner, and I'd like an honest opinion. Is what I'm describing what'd be defined as dysphoria or just some temporary emotional weirdness? I felt I was biasing my last post a few days ago and that it was throwing off how I'm seen and evaluated (or maybe I'm being pointlessly optimistic).

My alignment with mentioned side effects of gender dysphoria: 

• At age 5, cried in bed praying I wish I could have been a girl
• Had passing thoughts occasionally run through my mind after that
• Occasionally looked at girl/woman with envy of being who she was with her body.
• Occasionally wished I could wear similar clothes.
• Occasionally wished I did not have a penis.

Notice the word 'occasionally' there. This happened from age 5 all the way until recently.

Tipping Point
A few weeks ago, I was doing my usual business on the internet reading a personality forum when I came across a description of transsexual and transgender. I had read it before in the past but this time, I sorta had mini-flashbacks to various times I had similar thought-processes, added them together, looked at a couple other attributes, and somehow popped out with the conclusion that I may be ts (Oh man, looking back, that looks like a terrible way of making decisions.....but the emotions were there.) So as any computer-geek would do, I searched for a related IRC channel and started asking questions. It was after I did my research that I weighed the pro's and con's of transition, THEN interesting things happened. I concluded that transition for me would be hell and I'd never go for it. It was after that, that I started experiencing horrible sleeping patterns, lowered appetite, dead libido, etc. I then got the genius idea to look at these signs and therefore conclude that it may be dysphoria.

While it's true that the likelihood of my mind giving such a powerful emotional reaction like this to the mere idea of never being a woman certainly deals with gender identity to some extent, it isn't technically dysphoria, is it? Dysphoria is a emotional reaction to feeling a difference in sex and gender at any given time, not just some huge explosion causing days of emotional explosion based on one idea. If anything, why would it get me now, and of all times, when reading about it? I can't tell if I got the whiff of an idea, it scared me to death and I emotionally fell into panic mode, and as panic mode progressed emotional symptoms, I saw them, took them to be something else, panicked more, and turned this into an endless cycle, or if I'm just blindly giving a last-ditch effort to explain away this condition in the hopes that I can return to my mostly-normal life. Though I will concede that at any point in my life, I'd always admit to having wished I had been born female, I have never suffered any depression from it (or depression from a whole lot of anything, actually).

But if I'm just being stupid, why do I still feel like my insides are in a constant state of flux? I feel like I have butterflies in my stomach for about 75% of the time, and this is 2 weeks later. If this is self-created, could I just tell myself I'm being stupid, take a deep breath, and wait for it to go away? The main part I'm struggling with is that for TS, the main defining factor is the dysphoria. But while I have 'wants', I've never suffered from those wants. It's bothered me to some extent, but nothing to hinder the way I've followed in life up to this point. It seems my stress originates not from the fact I'm not female, but from the idea of never being able to be a female (Did I just walk through my life up to now secretly thinking I'd become one at some point, I thought such knowledge was obvious) due to the risks/costs involved. I know I get an emotional rush from being told I had a feminine actions, or have feminine hands, or that I was acting like a girl, but is my mind just taking what a TS person is after I read it, assuming I am that, and responding according to the way it thinks I should be based on how I may have incorrectly defined myself? Or am I just making up excuse after excuse?

I mean, I know that I wish I could have been born a woman, but I can't figure out if it's in a sincere way or just a childish "The grass is always greener" kind of way. I look at my genitals and I find them odd, I find the way I do things odd to some extent and wish I peed sitting down. But would I just as quickly wish it gone once it became an inconvenience? I rationally know it would be an inconvenience now, but for some reason, I still feel a pull towards it, but will that last? How would I be able to know/ensure it? I've gotten used to how I do things as a whole, it hardly bothered me.

I suppose with my current mindset, I'm really hoping to hear a, "Noiro, you were being stupid, you don't actually have a problem other than freaking out. The inner-flux can be fixed with x and you'll be able to return to daily life with few interruptions."

I mean, worst case, I'm also up for some method of being able to figure out for sure if this is just a very oddly placed onset of dysphoria with some method of being able to objectively identify it. I mentally worked out worst-case how I'd move forward with transition, but at this point, I REALLY don't want to unless it is absolutely necessary. I'd much prefer an alternative method or some identification of whatever is going on inside me at this point and a fix for it. Bah, but I suppose I've pulled you far enough with my pathetic ramblings. I feel like I'm either biasing towards one end or another and I really need outside, rational feedback to evaluate how to move forward. Anyhow, I look forward to your opinions/comments and i'll pull the curtain to end the show here. Thank you for your time.

Until someone says, "go ahead" I'm going to go a little light on anything that will push your perceptions in one direction or another. That said, maybe you could try this test: Tell yourself that you could NEVER , EVER be female, and examine how you feel about that. If that upsets you, then why do you think that is.... Also, as I said on your intro post, there are different levels of trans*, or in other words, there isn't a set definition that you have to fall within to call yourself trans. It is a self assigned name, chosen by those who feel that it fits them.

[edit: I could also mention that Gender Dysphoria is the feeling that your gender and sex don't match, Gender Identity Disorder is when that causes you problems in life]

I haven't finished Julia Serano's Whipping Girl yet, but she's convinced me to seriously doubt whether defining "GID" is a good way to understand people.

So, I'm going to play by the rules, thx.  Sorry, no easy answers.  (Such an answer would be worth as much sweat and tears as you'd've put into it anyway.)

Okay, so the obvious point: you are waaay too conflicted to be choosing any permanent changes at this moment.  Duh.  And I think you know that already.  Let me assure you: it's okay.

Also a pet-peeve of mine: one does not urinate through her vagina.  You really could learn the proper names for lady parts, especially if you're thinking you'd rather have them.

Setting that aside and moving on to less clear-cut things, I'd like to pose a few ideas and questions.  The answers are ultimately for yourself (though you're welcome to share them) and will probably change with time.

I see you struggling with "sex" vs. "gender" as if those are the only two ways that sex differences express themselves.  In reality, sex is much more real than gender and much more ambiguous than binary categories.



Ms. Serano proposes considering a minimum of four different things:
- somatic sex differences (body)
- subconscious sex differences (mind)
- differences in sexual attraction (orientation)
- sex-differentiated social patterns (gender)

Even if each of these categories is reduced to a binary variable, realize that there are only two ways for them to all agree, and fourteen ways to mix maleness and femaleness.  And when in fact you start measuring traits, the data don't look binary, like this:

MEN ...... (a few odd ducks) .......... WOMEN

They look like this.  Overlapping, and maybe not even bimodal.

And this means, if you decide to start chasing proof one way or another, you will not be able to come to a definitive, objective answer.  That doesn't mean a binary identity is wrong for you, just that it will ultimately be, in part, subjective.

So my advice is, yes! be objective for some time, have an open mind and examine who you are.  But do it without expecting an answer right away.

If you went to sleep wishing you were a girl, you are transgender. Cisgender people don't spend time dwelling on their gender, pretty much ever.

Whether you suffer from dysphoria or not is a moot point.

The only question is what changes you need to make in your life for it to meet your goals more effectively.

For me, the only proof of pudding was actually dressing and going out as a woman on an occasional basis. I hated wearing the clothes, BTW, they didn't fit well, and I was always afraid something would shift, exposing heaven knows what.

But I felt more natural. So much so, that the idea of continuing to live as a man began to seem hopelessly bleak.

I never really felt crippling "dysphoria". Instead I had social issues, and an intense desire to be a woman (like you). However, I did experience intense euphoria with every aspect of my femininity that became a reality.

Does this help?

Noiro love, as I mentioned in another thread, you remind me of a younger version to me.

BUT, I think you need to figure this out for yourself with little influence from others ( except maybe a councillor ).

You're unsure of yourself, your identity, and how you relate to the world. You've experienced desires and responses to situations not expected from a regular natal male. Further, dysphoria can manifest in a variety of ways, and it doesn't have to be physical. And it can manifest in ways that you've not even been aware of yet.

I know you want validation ( perhaps that's the wrong word? ), but it must come from yourself first. You've demonstrated that you're smart and intelligent. But this isn't a mathematical or logical problem. It's a matter for your soul ( your essence or whatever you want to call it ), and it can take months if not years to really get a grip on.

I understand the frustration to have an unanswered puzzle, but you have to take time and understand it wholly and properly first. Means understanding yourself.

Hugs, and all the best! 

Quote from: SamC on September 02, 2013, 06:37:24 AM
Noiro love, as I mentioned in another thread, you remind me of a younger version to me.

BUT, I think you need to figure this out for yourself with little influence from others ( except maybe a councillor ).

You're unsure of yourself, your identity, and how you relate to the world. You've experienced desires and responses to situations not expected from a regular natal male. Further, dysphoria can manifest in a variety of ways, and it doesn't have to be physical. And it can manifest in ways that you've not even been aware of yet.

I know you want validation ( perhaps that's the wrong word? ), but it must come from yourself first. You've demonstrated that you're smart and intelligent. But this isn't a mathematical or logical problem. It's a matter for your soul ( your essence or whatever you want to call it ), and it can take months if not years to really get a grip on.

I understand the frustration to have an unanswered puzzle, but you have to take time and understand it wholly and properly first. Means understanding yourself.

Hugs, and all the best! 

But it should be a simple answer. Emotions are a reaction to an external or internal stimulus. If someone punches you, you feel anger toward the person causing you harm. My wants have always been simple. Decent money, reading material, plenty of things to think about and tinker with as time progresses, and maybe even a partner along the way for companionship. In the past, if I wanted something and rationally it deemed as not worth the effort, it stopped pestering me. Even more, if I wanted something, I could always quantify how badly I wanted it based on my internal value system. This situation has me quantifying as low-moderate want with some weird extreme emotional reaction to...something after thinking about what I may be. The want and the emotional extreme reaction don't seem completely linked. I'm left to identify what is causing this disturbance, and how to put it to rest.

Why wouldn't the relation between desires and emotional pull/emotional reaction toward rejection of those desires be as clear-cut as usual? It may not be a simple answer to fit myself into a box, but in order to solve a problem, the problem must first be accurately identified. Since I'm not in a position to seek professional help for a little while, I'm not fond of the idea of sitting around while random unidentified side effects poke and prod me for the next year and a half. I have things to do. I don't evaluate myself to be a threat to myself or others, but with the stress it's imparting on me, it likely won't be very good for my health in the long run. 

Furthermore, I then have to ask myself what this whole 'identity' thing is to begin with. I am me. Identity shouldn't be figuring out 'who you are' and trying to align to it. It should just be a description of what you already do/have done in the past. At least that's how I consider it. I am me. There's no such thing as me not acting like me, because since I am me, I will always act like me. Meh, I'm probably overcomplicating things.

Noiro you sound like how i've been feeling, I've been asking the question forever now. "Why do I want to be a girl" and I can't find a definite answer. I can't even remember why I started feeling this way.

I just know I have these feelings, and then some days I am ok with being a guy. I can't say if I have GID either since I've never studied it or understand it well enough. I am also to scared to go to a therapist because I am afraid my secret will come out.

Honestly I think most of us go through doubts like this in all things, it is easier to decide I like this car over that car. There is more baggage that comes with figuring out if your Transsexual or not.

I tend to lead towards being Transsexual just based on the list of events in my life and just really wishing I was born female.

But honestly its a self-journey I think, yes I believe therapist can help, and people you know or can relate. But in the end you have to decide.

I not sure I am I am helping on not....

Are you trans in some way? Probably.. Are you a TS than needs to transition? That's something only you can answer.

I never had any real 'dysphoria' at least not as I understand it to be defined.. What I have always suffered from is a dissonance between who I am and what I am. I've taken steps to resolve this dissonance and feel much more complete for having done so.

Quote from: Noiro on September 02, 2013, 12:34:04 PM
I am me. Identity shouldn't be figuring out 'who you are' and trying to align to it. It should just be a description of what you already do/have done in the past. At least that's how I consider it. I am me. There's no such thing as me not acting like me, because since I am me, I will always act like me.

You are right in saying that you are already yourself, but you may also misunderstand what we mean. At times, influences in our lives, be they cultural, familiar, or something else, can lead us to fight who we are because we think that it would be seen as inappropriate or in some other way frowned upon. Sometimes it is even that we feel that it would be awkward. The point is, there are times when we sometimes resist our natural inclinations, and those are the times when we need to do soul searching or finding ourselves.

As all of us keep repeating, and I'm sorry, this is something that only you can do. Even when you do finally get the chance to seek counseling, they are going to depend on you to tell them how you feel and then recognize ways to help you come to your own conclusions. But one thing i will offer for thought:

If you are you, and it is you that wants to dress female sometimes (or anything else that you want to do that you perceive as feminine) then how often do you follow that urge? This question isn't for me or anyone else here, the answer is for you to think about. If you never follow those urges, then is that an example of fighting yourself? Again, your own answer is the only one that matters.