Took in required legal documentation showing I'm female from my endo. Was told it doesn't mean anything I have to do my birth cert first. Birth cert ppl want the liscence with documentation. -.- srsly wtf, mad frustration at this point in time....

I live in Michigan and will be following this thread closely.  Thanks (and good luck).


Toni

Simple, go to a different DMV office.It can make a big difference.

Quote from: LordKAT on September 05, 2013, 08:08:44 AM
Simple, go to a different DMV office.It can make a big difference.

Ok, so what if I get there and they hold to the same policy the last branch mgr did? Well that one was on Taylor on ecorse road, I'll try the telegraph rd one in brownstown.  I see my endo the 20th as well so I'm gunna ask him what he thinks too.

Move to a different state?  Many states only need a letter from your therapist. Mine got changed without any letter, I didn't even need to ask.

Update: michigan law states you need a signed medical affidavit that is notarized from your endo, ob, or srs surgeon, you have to pay for the notarizing, then u have to mail an original plus photocopy of id into the mich dept of community health in lansing, with a $40 application fee. They will send you a new copy, and you can have the old copy "impounded", by law which absolutely permanently affixes your gender as female by law to the state for any other documents requiring a change in gender marker, like the drivers liscence. It used to be u change ur drivers liscence first then your birth cert. I will have my medical form hopefully signed by my endo on my appt the 20th.  Fom there ill go get it notarized by a lawyer i know on a personal level. there is, however, a loophole. A correction of gender as "error" may be made, with proper documentation showing correct gender.  So i could possibly utilize my hospitol release note with gender of F, should I choose to try. Problem is the fee to michigan state records is non refundable.  So u need a medical affidavit stating from whoever, stating: "(your name here full and legal), has been under my care(physician name, liscence number), and has had the proper medical procedures to be considered (insert correct gender). I attest under law that this is true". Then it has to be signed by the doctor, or whoever, notarized and sent in.

You used to be required tomchange DL or ID first, them birth cert, but the new mcl was changed to reflect the above, in 2011. It remains the law. Someven though it was discriminatory, it was legal discrimination. But hey, i feel bad for you Ohio people, my lawyer said they cant legally reflect their change of gender on the birth cert., at all! Christ Im glad im only 45 mins north of ohio, lol, if my parents lived any further south, id have been screwed for the most part.

You can make changes same day as well by going to the office in lansing, all change applications have to be recieved by 3pm of that day, for same day service.  The mailing process takes 4-6 weeks depending how busy they are at the records bureau. Psh.

So theres the update for my michigan peeps! As of 2013 that is still law, mcl is 333.2831(c). Hope this helps anyone else out facing the records change to legally correct gender.  When one does this they are legally protected under law as that gender, not as trans.  Any discriminatory actions by any agency or business or job in relation to your gender is thus protected under law, which is why this is so important to do as a trans person in michigan, because there is only trans specific laws city by city not state wide. If you live as a certain gender, and legal documentation including birth cert matches it, you are covered as that gender legally. And if old records are impounded, noone can dig up anything on you as the old sex and have it stand in court legally, as your birth cert states that sex hope that helps out any michigan folks out there! With love!

My legal name change is this week, so I'll be navigating documentation updates soon.

One question about the information you posted recently -- the 333.2831(c) law specifically states that:

"A request that a new certificate be established to show a sex designation other than that designated at birth. The request shall be accompanied by an affidavit of a physician certifying that sex-reassignment surgery has been performed."

With this specific form to be filled out:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdch/Medical_Affidavit_08-2010_346045_7.pdf

So if I'm understanding this right, even a notarized letter from my endocrinologist stating "proper medical procedures" won't suffice, and there's no way to change Michigan DL or birth certificate without GRS.

Do you have experience otherwise?  I'd love to get this changed at the same time I go through all my name change paperwork, but I was under the impression that was impossible.

Correct, if trans* you need that affidavit. Supporting documentation is required if intersexed, to avoid that affidavit, which, I also have from correct surgery in case this gets heated up. It shouldnt though, read a full version of the law, if "an error is made on gender" is usually utilized for intersex people. Non confirmation of IS will require said affidavit.

Heads up on this:make sure you hire a notary that will go to the office of your physician to witness them signing said affidavit. The UPS store usually has info on a travelling service for their notary.  It cost me roughly fifty dollars. All in all if needed, thats a total of 90 for the BC, alone, if not getting a second copy. Its 40 to change anything on it. So best bet is if you are doing name and sex to do it at same time. I can tell you off record opinions of endos on that affidavit, but i wont breach mutual confidentiality. 

Nvm, I see my update above did include info on that affidavit

I should have updated this sooner. If you are in Wayne county, specifically downriver I can provide u a name and number for said notary, and advice on how to navigate this. That affidavit provides name change opportunity but im not sure if they need legal support for the name change or if that works at the same time without a court order of name change. I decided to just keep my name but its gender nuetral to hard feminine as it is lol. Only thing is here I use Dayna, birth name is Dana. No point changing name on affidavit to me to add a Y as the old record gets impounded, and any background checks and job apps may question me on my name change. I figure why go through that hassle if I have no need, but I do understand the reasoning many of us do!

Also, it used to be (2011) that one could do that without said affidavit, which was changed as is now required. How was simple, one would change their DL first and use it as supporting evidence to switch markers on their BC. Thank our current sec of state we no longer can..:/ GRS/SRS is required unless one has a loophole otherwise.

~Dayna

Quote from: PrincessDayna on October 15, 2013, 05:08:58 PMNo point changing name on affidavit to me to add a Y as the old record gets impounded, and any background checks and job apps may question me on my name change.

Actually you may still have to bring up the alternate spelling in those cases even if you've been using the variant name informally (without an official name change document). For those cases they're not interested in what was your "legal name" per se (in fact in some places it's actually illegal for a job application to outright ask if you've legally changed your name), but rather other names your records may be under. Someone who for example used a "professional name" different from their legal one, used their middle name or a nickname as their "primary" given name with references or on possible records,  or committed a crime under an alias will need to disclose said names in the applicable scenarios, while someone whose name was changed before adulthood (e.g. adoption) typically doesn't need to mention their original birth name since no relevant records would be under it (unless it's for something major like a security clearance where they check you back to birth). The same logic applies to credit reports - any other names or name variants you've used to apply credit under will show up, while names changed before you ever had credit shouldn't.

Also whether or not your name change record is impounded has no bearing on whether or not you need to disclose it in the above cases - if you have relevant records under the other name (which haven't been changed) they want to check you'll need to bring it up.

Edited for clarification.

Wow, lol. Thats pretty in depth info there. Luckily i dont fit any of those examples. I do, however, have a DoD Secret Clearance, and i dont wanna mess that up. I would need to seek council at CACOM if I were to change my name as im not sure how they adress that issue if the legal change wasnt designated as a national security need. Ive not used it in any manner formal or informal in my entire life other than occassional limited social media exposure. My name is completely on grid so to say. So any future jobs I may pursue in accordance with my clearance per say, would in fact bring up prior name disclosure as in those instances it is a requirement. So unless I had a very very very good reason, I would be faced with such. Lord knows I still gotta go to CACOM in regards to my gender marker fluctuation so that doesnt effect my clearance! It would be highly subjective in regards to a job application using my clearance then, lol. Well, Ms., your birth cert and drivers liscence is female, but your clearance says M...care to explain? Ayyyy, I didnt even think of this until you brought up that solid chunk of information, so thank you! Luckily, it is inexplicably tied to my social sec #, so that helps subjectively!

Da(y)na, since you have a security clearance that changes things a bit (my answers are geared towards "typical" jobs). Sorry if my post seemed detailed, but I've done some research on how background checks work (and there are many different kinds of "background checks" so there is not a single answer). Since the question of whether a TG needs to disclose his/her former name if asked for other names you've used is frequently asked on here I've posted numerous times my response based on what I've learned. (I won't rehash anything more in this post, but if you're interested feel free to look at my post history and a substantial proportion of my posts are on this subject. In fact I'm not TG myself but whenever I have something that may be of benefit to the community I may bring it up.)

Employers, etc. wouldn't (usually) care about a pseudonym you use for online or whatever purposes (unless you're using it to speak bad about them!), but it's if any relevant documents are under said name (whether a nickname/middle name/initials as the first name, part of a normally hyphenated last name, spelling or other variants that you've used, alias name in terms of criminal history, former legal name, etc.) that governs in the usual cases whether or not you need to bring it up. In fact, inquiring about extraneous names is among the so-called "taboo" topics that may be used against them in a discrimination lawsuit (beyond TGs, think of people who assume more "American" names upon immigrating, those with names used for religious purposes, etc.). What I recommend to TGs if they want to be safe if they do not have any records to be checked under their former name is to put down something like "none that any relevant records are under" which covers the question without outing themselves. Also, if it's something like another party besides the one making the hiring decision doing the investigation (which could apply even with a security clearance, as it worked for another member on here) or they're pulling a criminal record straight from the FBI or a state/local equivalent you can put down something like "will disclose to the investigator/criminal bureau" to bypass the intermediaries from knowing (the drawback being a possible slight delay due to the extra inquiry).