Quote from: Katie on September 07, 2013, 12:30:38 PM
Or another was the danger of going to Thailand. Just try to overlook the countless trans people that have already gone there and survived. Also overlook the fact that their medical skills and facilities appeared to be the same as what they have in the USA.

Oh, I heard that one too - there was even a reference to mythic Q&A internet group comprised of "Survivors of the Thailand butcher-surgeons"

Yes and another common trait of the people that claim how dangerous it is to go to Thailand is that they have nowhere near the money to get the surgery here in the USA. So that means they are a long way off from getting the surgery. Oh I forgot to mention that these people often would be driving a nice car, or smoked, or had other indicators of having money but spending it on things that were odiously more important than srs.

Now on the other hand the girls like me that I know that have had srs. They did WHATEVER it took to reach that goal. Perhaps that's also why I was willing to take the risk of buying an electrolysis machine and doing the work myself. I am still alive and my burns have healed.

Katie

Sigh, I give up. Whatever. Don't complain if you get yourself permanent scars.

I have the tria laser and love it! The areas that I've used it in have had very little regrowth. I actually used it to remove a small tattoo that I had on my hip. Painful as hell, but its gone now.

o.o I never knew tattoo removal sed the same laser as hair removal. That's surprising.

Quote from: A on September 07, 2013, 01:54:31 PM
o.o I never knew tattoo removal sed the same laser as hair removal. That's surprising.

I'm not sure if it is the exact same. I tested a small spot on it first on medium power, hurt like hell and blistered up in about a second. ONce that spot healed, the ink was gone. It took a while to heal, almost a month.

I started with electro years ago but I was not consistent. Had 4 laser treatments which felt like someone was taking a torch to my face, that worked but not as good as I had hoped. So, I am back with electro because I feel it is a sure thing. I always scout out trans friendly electrolysis places. It is taking a long time though.  I think I will have a few laser sessions after most of my face is cleared via electro.

I only did laser up to now, had in total about 10-15 yessions I would estimate - spread over 13 years. In the beginning it helped a lot because of the fast effect. Hurt a lot, too. I always went to professionals for that. I think the laser got all the hair I had on the upper lip and cheeks, but it seems to have a hard time with the chin and the cornder of the jaws. And since I am annoyed now at being 13 years post op and still have hair issues, I will probably do 2 or 3 laser sessions in rapid succession and then go for electro for the rest - though I may cut the laser part of that down, it seemed not to have done any good the last 2 times. I did not have hair on the cheeks or upper lip for the past 6 years in which I actually did not laster these parts either. I told the laser people to only do the chin and jaw because the rest was ok and thus it was only half the price of the regular face treatment. So I would say that laser at least can keep hair away for at least that range, probably longer. I think there are no studies that prove or disprove any assessment of really long term effects. I hope it will work - but its not a certainty - but neither is it a certainty that "only electrolysis can stop hair permanently", IMO.
Interestingly, I have a light skin, dark hair mostly, same hair color on upper lip and chin - so WTF is one part going away and the other not? Who knows...
What definitely sucks about laser treatment is that it will only work for me in winter as in summer I get plenty of speckles and a brownish skin and then it does not work or has bad side effects.

You know, just using sunscreen will prevent your issues in the summer. Tanning is unhealthy anyway.

And uhm, there are several reasons why some hairs are going tro be more reluctant than others:

1. Depth. The longer hair is under the skin, the harder it is to burn to the root.

2. "Topography". Where there is roundness or an angle on your face (chin, jaw), it's much harder for the technician to do the lasering efficiently, and it's easy to do a spot wrong.

3. Separations. Many laser technicians will separate your face into sections, sometimes drawing them with a pencil, and always keep the same. The boundaries between those sections are likely to be forgotten most often.

4. Simple stubbornness. Some areas, notably the chin, are just freaking resistant. It's like that.

Also, why did you spread your laser treatments over such a long time?

Hi, A
* Sun lotion only works partially. It does not help well enough I believe with the speckles, just the tanning. I like the tanning in summer by the way. At least since I am not so much into the gothic look anymore
* Yes - I think it mostly is the "topography" and stubbornness. No sectioning is done nowadays as there is only one section on each side of the face.
* The long term spread - wellll - various reasons. One was that it worked amazing in the beginning and allowed me to just shave lightly and not have any noticeable hair and that was great at that time, so I went only once that got worse again. The main issue in all of this was money. I started transitioning as a student and later did some crappy jobs, then studied at university - I never earned more than some hundred Euros in a month and lived in a shared appartment. Laster treatments at first were 200-400 Euros for a session, so it simply took me a long time to get the money. Later it was a bit of neglect mixed with money issues (still was not earning more than 1000 a month) and issues with light sensitivity. Even good sunlotion did not help enough when I was out with the skischool teaching kids on snow in high altitudes, so I had to carefully plan laser sessions and often failed to do so. Admittedly also a bit of depression kicked in at some point and I was neglecting everything overall a bit.
Recently I kind of got knocked in the behind and with presently earning well enough I want to get this crap done as soon as I can to finally get over this stupid iron ball on my feet

I see... By the way, I pay more or less the equivalent of 25 € per session on my face, because they charge per 15 minutes of work, not per area. Maybe you could find a better place too. I regretted deeply my first contract, at ~2000 € (40 % discount!) for 7 treatments, which was a total, deep and awful swindle. Shop better than I did.

Ah yes - I forgot to mention that - presently I pay about 60 EUR per treatment, the times when laser was novel are over and it is common now and thus cheaper. 25 EU is unthinkable to me though. A skilled medical person will charge that for worktime alone almost. I can imagine some places will be as low as 40 or 50. So recently money is less of the issue - in the last 3 years the dominant issue was that I was buried in work at a low pay (like 50-60 hours a week at 1000 EU a month of which 700 went into rent and 100 into transportation - in that case even 40 EU are quite an investment ...
Another issue actually was that I was trying to run away from everything trans and have as little to do with it as possible. Told no one anymore, didnt go to support groups, didnt want to visit doctors and all that and only did what was really needed, endocrinologist for pills and blood checks and occasional laser treatments. Well - it did not work, I came to the conclusion after "just" 13 years that I have to take a step back to be able to walk forward and return to the topic and here I am (reasons stated elsewhere, but mainly it is about that bubble not working out with occasional failures in passing plus some issues unresolved like some face hair and a voice problem)

Uhm, skilled medical person... Laser requires thorough training and education about the risks and all, and at the clinic I go to they don't let any employee do laser if they don't get their certification from an evaluator that comes specifically for that, from far away. But having an actual doctor or nurse or other qualified health professional do that is overkill, really. Any esthetician with the right diploma and the laser training does the job more than fine. It's easier to do than electrolysis, and honestly, given the right information, material, techniques and some proper judgement, to be honest, pretty much anyone can do laser.

Also, wow, that pay is really awful. Gotta love countries that don't have a decent minimum wage.

I am satisfied with hair removal by Tria. We discussed this product several times before.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,102684.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,136864.0.html

It is interesting that I still see a few very fine and long hair grow in my legs. They are not so much noticeable, but I just pluck using my fingers.

barbie~~

A - I think I did not get this right. I meant with skilled medical person not a doctor, but a person as you described - who received proper training to use the device, how to do proper treatments afterwards, what to do if things are not right - and have a medical doctor behind the whole setup to check on the instruments and such regularly. This is where I go presently. They are skilled or rather experienced persons who are not nurses or doctors, but there is a doctor running the whole thing. He certainly gets better pay, but the people who do that work after the training and all that, they probably are not paid so well, but I hope well enough to not be able to offer this treatment for 25 EU. But I am no economist - I just have not found anyone doing this cheaper and still look trustworthy

In my experience, the trustworthiness of a clinic in its image is worthless. The first place I went to was like that. They claimed to have a doctor who overlooked everything, to have the most trained and skilled technicians... but the doctor was only there for confirming people's medications and laser contraindications (which my new clinic does by simply calling the pharmacy) and otherwise only did the doctor jobs like botox, really. He was never directly or indirectly involved in laser treatments.

And the "superior" technicians, really, were nothing short of disappointing. They used insufficient power settings which rendered many of my treatments near useless (they only got the neck and cheeks, mostly - they never put the power high enough to really affect my upper lip or chin), they left a large mark of barely lasered skin where they had made their pencil lines (which they had the great idea of always putting in the same place)... the only, only advantage there is that their patented (expensive at 1 $ / mL) moisturizing and post-treatment balm is amazing.

The extra money (probably 8 times the price) only serves to fatten the doctor and the investors. Just see how they attracted customers (foolish people like me) by putting a discount of up to 60 % every month... and still charge several times the reasonable price.

Really, it was simply a scam. I don't know your clinic, but I have a LOT of trouble imagining that they're charging you a remotely reasonable amount.

Hmm - sounds like they really are ripping you off there. I guess I never thought of 60-70 EUR as that expensive for such a treatment and could not imagine to get that cheaper, so maybe I just should look. I consider going to the local support group maybe and ask them about that, though I fear that they do have rather personal opinions that do not focus on money. Many still do not believe laser works long term anyways, so they usually rather give you an adress of an electrologist - which I probably will need anyways now after laser seems to have run to its limits.

Well, you can't lose anything by going. Worst case, you'll gain the knowledge that you don't like the trans people in your area.

... that I still dont like the trans people in my area - no, just kidding, I liked many of them back then but not so much that support group. I am a tad bit worried about going there actually as it is in the back room of the queer organization here. I am not sure if I will meet people there that I know or knew and that never figured out my past... well, as I did not meet any of them anyways for years, they likely will not think of me either. Otherwise it may be a bit of a mess and I hope I will not tangle myself up in stupid lies

Not to necro this thread, but I just thought I would chime in to say that I am quite happy with my Remington iLight Pro's results.

I picked up one that had been used in an Ulta display on Ebay for $160. It was in mint condition when I got it, and although I know it's not FDA approved for facial use, it worked for me very well.

I have very light skin, with dark hair. The highest setting gives a mild sunburn effect that faded for me over-night. It is not a pleasant sensation by any means, and the smell of burnt hair takes some getting used to.

If you intend to treat your face, either wear eye protection (there are protective goggles that you can get on Amazon), or have someone else do your treatment while you're eyes are covered completely and closed.

Treating each area every two weeks, it takes a while to really notice the effect, but it works, and works well. And the best part is, I've managed to save countless amounts of money.