A bit of back-story: I was started on oral estrogen at 17, had SRS at 24, and continued on oral estrogen until my mid 40s when my GP felt the risk of long-term estrogen therapy was too high. After about 15 years, I became concerned and asked for  a referral to a knowledgeable endocrinologist. The endocrinologist is one of the most experienced and knowledgeable in this part of the country and she was immediately shocked that I had been without HRT for over 10 years. As she suspected, I had some bone density loss from lack of primary hormones and she started me on transdermal estrogen immediately. She said that oral estrogens simply don't provide blood serum estrogen levels in the normal female range. She said the patch is more effective and is not processed by the liver which also makes it safer. With hormone levels in the normal range and with regular exercise, I beat the osteoporosis. I asked how long I should stay on the patch and she said that when I stop, the osteoporosis WILL come back but the dangers of continuing HRT long-term are statistically small. I feel better and look younger than I have in decades so I will take my chances with statistics!

A couple of years ago I decided I wanted to lactate - one of the aspects of womanhood that I had never experienced but was still possible. Knowing I had never been exposed to progesterone and therefore lacked the "maturity" of the milk-making apparatus, I discussed taking progesterone with my endocrinologist but she said I didn't "need" it because I didn't have a uterus (which I DO, but that's beside the point LOL!) but I decided to continue on my own and take a six month course of high level progesterone (Microgest) to simulate pregnancy (while being monitored by my endocrinologist).

I got more than I bargained for! Within 4 months I was experiencing just about every symptom of pregnancy that it is possible to experience without a fetus present! Unfortunately the depression got pretty bad (one of the known side-effects of progesterone), bad enough that I discontinued the Microgest.

A month or so later a partner came into my life who was interested in an ANR ("adult nursing relationship") so I started progesterone again for a month, then discontinued it while taking domperidone and herbs to stimulate lactation. My endocrinologist indicated that my prolactin levels were high, almost as high as a nursing mother, and within a couple of weeks I was producing milk. Unfortunately the relationship crashed and burned a couple of months later and I discontinued all medications (except the patch).

Anyway, significant changes occurred while I was taking Microgest.

1 - My breast size increased nearly 2 cup sizes

2 - My aerola and nipples increased in size and the aerola became darker

3 - The texture of my breasts changed. I can feel the lobules (where milk is produced) and still can after many months

4 - My natural background level of moisture (in the genitalia) increased as well as the lubrication produced when aroused.

5 - My breasts are more dense, firm, and heavier than before

Considering all the positive side-effects I advised my endocrinologist that I intend to stay on cyclic progesterone for the foreseeable future. It may not be "necessary" but, for me, it was very beneficial.

I am taking Duphastone and I can attest that it does affect the breast growth and more specifically alveola. If I understand this correctly, it is not a medroxyprogesterone derivative.

Quote from: Northern Jane on September 02, 2013, 07:04:11 AM
A bit of back-story: .....

This was an interesting read, and I'm sorry about the relationship falling apart.

But, I'm an elderly woman who's always wanted to lactate and I'm considering talking to my doctor about progesterone.  I began massage and manipulation a couple weeks ago but there really is absolutely no change and it seems futile without adding Progesterone. This was discussed a bit with another girl and I've just been dragging my feet.   

Anyway, how long does it usually take to see results?

As with any medication one needs to be aware of potential side effects. Domperidone is known to be problematic if you have even the slightest heart abnormality and has cause a slight heart problem to become much worse and more dangerous. I know this from personal family experience as well as from information I received from a trans woman friend. Domperidone is used frequently to increase the milk supply in nursing mothers but is not approved for use generally in the US and Canada because of the potential risks. My family member had a slight heart electrical abnormality where one small part wasn't getting normal signals from the brain. It wasn't anything to worry about until she started using Domperidone which brought her close to a heart attack. Most women can lactate following a course of reduced estrogen and increased progesterone levels followed by some serious time on a double electric breast pump something like eight 15 minute sessions per day for up to a month without using Domperidone or Motillum. Breasts normally produce milk as a direct result of demand, it increases as demand increases. 

Quote from: Glitterfly on September 02, 2013, 02:27:26 AM
it will make your breasts grow more but you're taking the chances that the tissue growing there might be cancer just as well as any other tissue you don't want there.

Those studies were on cis females. If provera was as bad as evryone says why aren't all the transsexuals from the 1980s and 1990s, when provera was the AA of choice, dead. There hasn't been one study suggesting provera did anything other then make their breast bigger and their hips wider. yeah if you can afford it take prometirum. Though provera will kill T levels much more efficiently. But calico doesn't have to way about that. However, I don't think provera is as bad as some make it sound. I am unconvinced. Just because people say it doesn't make it true. And the fact that there aren't a rash of lawsuits from trans women from the 1980s who are all dying from Provera makes me think it is probably okay to take. I wouldn't worry calico.

Quote from: kathyk on September 02, 2013, 07:52:54 AMAnyway, how long does it usually take to see results?

It depends on WHAT results and your own genetics.

If you mean breast changes, I noticed the changes starting about the second month and by the 4th the remaining changes were very slow.

If you are talking about lactating, that is WILDLY variable. There are cis women I know (online) who try for a year or more with no results and others who have milk in 2 weeks. There are only a couple of Trans women I know who have done it and it seems to take them 6 months or so and they don't always get it on the first attempt. (The 'progesterone pregnancy' idea I got from a TG woman who is lactating.)

Quote from: A on September 01, 2013, 11:08:02 PM
I'm curious. Why did you take progesterone in the first place if the appearance of breasts made you stop? That sounds a little contradictory.

Two reasons: 1. It was my first dabble into hrt, I was 23, self medicating, and had no idea if I was on the right dosage or not due to 24/7 cramping.  It was also dangerous all around due to self medicating, and was one of my main contributing factors to stopping. (I've had slight breasts since I turned 11- I'm IS, and wanted to be more passable.  My research at the time, told me to stop as there was no proper E in my regimen either, so it was prolly doing more harm then good.)  Simple increase in breast growth was not enough to justify all that. And,

2. I was told by some trans girls at the time I'd never pass, and being young, and with all the high emotions dysphoria brings, I was discouraged and stopped.

And my end goal in all of this isn't simple breast growth.

Northern Jane's story is riveting.  Got me thinking.  I think at the end of the day, I'd much rather have the attractive womanly breasts of a woman who has borne children, then girly immature breasts.  I know most people think a lot of the latter, but to me it's always been overrated.

Will be thinking and researching this further, as well as discussing this with my physician at the 6-week HRT checkup.

Thanks for such a wonderful thread !

My endo is prescribing progesterone pellets now, which are bioidentical and not synthetic. Got loaded up with 12 E pellets and 1 low dose P pellet. Cheers to progesterone!

Quote from: Jennygirl on September 09, 2013, 07:18:26 PM
My endo is prescribing progesterone pellets now, which are bioidentical and not synthetic. Got loaded up with 12 E pellets and 1 low dose P pellet. Cheers to progesterone!

Works for me Boo-Boo!

How much did the pellets cost? (Or how much would they have cost if they weren't covered?) I'm curious about the price of these things. I know they're "expensive", but nothing further than that.

Also, how often do you need to have them replaced?

Quote from: A on September 09, 2013, 07:27:17 PM
How much did the pellets cost? (Or how much would they have cost if they weren't covered?) I'm curious about the price of these things. I know they're "expensive", but nothing further than that.

Also, how often do you need to have them replaced?

Usually it's about $50-75 per pellet, and they last 3-4 months- I'm pretty sure depending mostly on height/weight. I understand it as: the more fat you have in your bum the longer it takes for them to dissolve and need replacing. Perhaps someone could correct me if I'm wrong!

Pellets are the jammm please get on them! It's much less estrogen than you would take orally and it's way more effective than anything else currently out there. I'm so happy my endo has found suitable progesterone pellets because that means now I don't even need injections of any sort.

I've never taken a hormone or AA pill in my life, and I don't ever plan on doing it. Highly recommend!

11, 12, 13 pellets... 650-975 $ per 3-4 months... say 3.5 in average. 2228.57-3342.86 $ a year. Not counting eventual antiandrogen pellets.

Wow. Unless I become much richer, or the government suddenly starts covering pellets (which is unlikely considering they don't even cover transdermal gels), my answer is going to have to be "no way in hell". My rough yearly income is just above 10 000 $, and I have only 285 $ a month left after medications, rent, Internet, phone and bus pass to get food, save tiny bits and whatever else I might need. A lot of people actually spend more than 285 $ a month on just food... I think if I really wanted to get a TV subscription again, I'm not sure I could afford it even by privating myself even more.

Yeah, I'll see when I'm done studying and hopefully have a relatively good-paying job in my field, after I've gotten thousands in hair removal and possibly some face surgery. :p

PS: You have an antiandrogen pellet too?

Quote from: A on September 09, 2013, 10:53:04 PM
PS: You have an antiandrogen pellet too?

No AA's.. not evar. That's part of what the progesterone is for

Oh. Well I guess the bad effects of using too much hormones for the sake of killing testosterone is definitely counteracted by the fact everything is in pellet form. Makes sense.

Quote from: Jennygirl on September 09, 2013, 07:18:26 PM
My endo is prescribing progesterone pellets now, which are bioidentical and not synthetic. Got loaded up with 12 E pellets and 1 low dose P pellet.

Does anyone know if pellets are available in Canada?

Well the pellets are synthesized in Colorado U.S.A. and can be shipped anywhere in the world, so yes

Don't quote me on it though because maybe there is some kind of government restriction on imported medications? You'll just have to ask your endo.

Not sure if they're approved by Health Canada for use altogether, but I'm 99 % sure no province's medication insurance program will pay for a different, more convenient, more expensive delivery method of a pill they already pay for. Transdermal gels have been around for a while, and are in fact the easiest solution for a postmenopausal woman to get relief if pills are out because of a fragile health. So, pellets, that are new, extremely expensive and even require a doctor... nope, don't think so.

Quote from: Jennygirl on September 09, 2013, 07:18:26 PM
My endo is prescribing progesterone pellets now, which are bioidentical and not synthetic. Got loaded up with 12 E pellets and 1 low dose P pellet. Cheers to progesterone!

I'm looking into finding a therapist and getting started on HRT, so I've been researching a bit, but this is the first time I've read about E and P pellets, I didn't know that they existed. Your transition seems to have gone very well so far which means they must work... but do you believe them to be more effective than pills? Also do you know of an article that I could read into maybe to learn more about them? If they work better, or at least on par, it will definitely be something I bring up with an endocrinologist when I get to that step.

Quote from: CourtneyAngelina on September 27, 2013, 09:11:03 PM
I'm looking into finding a therapist and getting started on HRT, so I've been researching a bit, but this is the first time I've read about E and P pellets, I didn't know that they existed. Your transition seems to have gone very well so far which means they must work... but do you believe them to be more effective than pills? Also do you know of an article that I could read into maybe to learn more about them? If they work better, or at least on par, it will definitely be something I bring up with an endocrinologist when I get to that step.

Thank you for your kind words I am VERY happy with my results so far.

I've never used any other method so I can't say for sure if they are indeed more effective (and everyone has slightly different results from HRT anyway), but everything on the web and from my endo suggests that it's true due to the slow & even release.

As far as info on pellets, the only decent one I know of is here:
http://www.collegepharmacy.com/images/download/BHRTPelletFAQ.pdf
^ this company is also where my endocrinologist orders the pellets from

It's not really that good of an article, though, because it doesn't detail pellet use for cross gender hormones. My endocrinologist (John O'Dea) is in the process of launching a new website with a plethora of information, and hopefully it will help a lot of people with their decision on which delivery method is right for them. I dunno where you are located, but he has 2 offices, one in Sacramento CA and one in LA. I would highly recommend meeting this man!

Also at the beginning of Sept when I was in for my 4th implantation, he mentioned that he is going to open up a London office