The Mirror

I didn't have £8,000 to go private so I agreed to have it done on the NHS, which had a four-year waiting list. In the meantime I had to live as a woman. That meant dressing as a woman every time I went out, and working as a woman.

The transition began. I had electrolysis every two months to get rid of my facial hair and was given oestrogen tablets.

By now I had a job at a care agency so I went shopping for clothes to wear to work. I'm 6ft 2in so it was difficult to find things at first. In the end I opted for long floral skirts and women's T-shirts. I remember shop assistants looked at me oddly and s->-bleeped-<-ed as they put the clothes through the tills. But that was nothing compared to other people's disapproval.

"The skin from my scrotal sac had been used to create a vagina and the tip of my penis was left in place. When I finally dared to look, I was horrified. The whole area was purple with bits of skin dropping off. Even my doctor said he had never seen anything quite like it."

I wonder what dr. she went to for srs ? Sounds like she was butchered   

Yes, it sounds like every possible thing that could have gone wrong, did; what a horrible experience all around.  I can't help wondering, if she'd had a better doctor who'd done things properly, and if she'd had better social support in her transition, would she be feeling the same way? 

The sad thing is that a lot of people will read this and use it as fodder to condemn transsexual transitioning in general, without any reference to or knowledge of all the successful, happy transitions with good results both physically and emotionally.

   I feel her pain. If only it had gone better. I heard of doctors who try to fix that type of thing. There must be some way to correct the pain.

  I understand her feelings, but I think she could have at least recognized that, for some people, SRS is a perfectly viable solution.

QuoteI don't feel any more a woman than I did before. In fact, I just feel like a man with no penis.

This is an interesting line.  Apparently this person didn't feel like a woman before.  It sounds like they had SRS in a desperate attempt to feel like a woman.  This is a perfect example of the kind of thing that worries me about people who do not question themselves.  This person was *told* they were TS and just went along with it because it sounded promising to them.  It has to be something you figure out for yourself.

This is just about the worse outcome, nerve damage
who leaves you with chronic pain!!
Chronic pain often leads to depression (I've got a friend who has
stabbing pains all day long no matter what she does, she is depressed).
Possibly cutting a nerve, if its not a critical motor nerve, could relieve this pain
(extreme but sometimes it the only option)

The estrogen tablet gives headaches?
Uh, in the post SRS doses, I sort of doubt that.
Probably the pain comes from the other pain.

Since passability seems to be a big issue for that person,
maybe FFS would have been a better first step than SRS.

At 6 foot 2 you've got to wear T's and long flowing skirts! Why?
why not wear skirts at the knees or pants and blouses.
I wonder how big a frame that person has, seems its not just a height issue.
Clothing for tall women
has existed for quite a while (especially on the internet).

I think that person probably lived in a delusional bubble before SRS. If she don't pass now, she probably didn't pass then!!! And the bubble has burst!! That is why delusion is never a good thing.

Anyway, don't know quite what to say, the tone of the whole thing is bizarre.

It sounds like everything she did, especially SRS, was done to make herself "feel like a woman." Of course she was disappointed, as it doesn't work that way.

I'm surprised at the abuse and scorn thrown at her, but again, one wonders if things would have been different is SHE was different, if she approached this with a more realistic viewpoint and goals in mind? SHE seemed to feel everything she did became a mere costume, so I'm not surprised others felt that way too and treated her poorly. Not that it's right they did, but I can see how it might happen that way.

~Kate~

Dare I say it.  I'm Thundra, so of course I dare.

This is a perfect example of why the SOC are crap.

This person went completely thru the system as set out in the rules, and nobody thought to stop "her?"

If that is how the rules work, than why have them at all?  They obviously do not do what they were intended to do. If they can't even stop the worst case scenario, than WTF?

So, why should everyone else be point thru the ringer, if this person, whom the rules are in place for, is able to navigate thru them with a blessing from the medical community?

Could I give a better example of the fact that the medical establishment could care less about the mental health of their patients? Hell no!  The rules are there to cover their ass legally. Period. The rules have nothing to do with helping the patient. Time to say by-bye to the rules for good.

Quote from: Melissa on July 13, 2007, 12:09:46 PM

QuoteI don't feel any more a woman than I did before. In fact, I just feel like a man with no penis.

This is an interesting line.  Apparently this person didn't feel like a woman before.  It sounds like they had SRS in a desperate attempt to feel like a woman.  This is a perfect example of the kind of thing that worries me about people who do not question themselves.  This person was *told* they were TS and just went along with it because it sounded promising to them.  It has to be something you figure out for yourself.

She may not have worded it correctly, but I don't think she meant she isn't a woman on the inside. I read it more as she's unhappy with her looks and the bad surgery results. For some people, the physical affects their self-perception which is why so many less than pretty women have low self esteem. The mirror reflects back a man without a penis in her mind.
Also, it sounds if she's had suffered some serious discrimination, and is seen as male everywhere she goes. It'd be hard to feel like a woman when the constant feed back is that you're not. It's like a little kid who's constantly told she's ugly and stupid, sooner or later she's going to feel ugly and stupid.

Not everybody is blessed with the fortitude to rise above all that adversity. Some TS would rather not transition than to be mocked everywhere they go, and never actually be able to live as a woman. Which is what she's experiencing.
She had surgery, but is still considered a man by everyone. Could you really be happy with no acceptance whatsoever?
Can we have some compassion for someone who got a raw deal?

After re-reading the article, I have some other thoughts.  She says she had a four-year waiting period during which she dressed and lived as a woman, and talks about how difficult it was.  Now, if you tried living in your allegedly correct gender (as most of us have done to at least some extent prior to or concurrent with any medical interventions) and it was such a negative experience, why would you go ahead and have genital surgery?  Surely she didn't think that would fix everything.  My point is, it sounds to me as if she has to bear some responsibility for the decision to persist in the attempted transition for such a long time and then after all that, to go ahead and have the surgery. 

It certainly sounds as if her surgeon was a major f***-up, but in a way that's a different, albeit hugely unfortunate, issue.  It sounds to me as if this person was hugely confused from day one and it is sad that no one caught it before she went so far, but still--she was an adult, and I would think that in four years time between beginning and having the surgery she could have got a clue herself that maybe she was on the wrong track since she seemed to be having nothing but bad experiences.  If I've read something wrongly, correct me, as always.

Quote from: Rob on July 13, 2007, 12:45:34 PM
After re-reading the article, I have some other thoughts.  She says she had a four-year waiting period during which she dressed and lived as a woman, and talks about how difficult it was.  Now, if you tried living in your allegedly correct gender (as most of us have done to at least some extent prior to or concurrent with any medical interventions) and it was such a negative experience, why would you go ahead and have genital surgery?  Surely she didn't think that would fix everything.  My point is, it sounds to me as if she has to bear some responsibility for the decision to persist in the attempted transition for such a long time and then after all that, to go ahead and have the surgery. 

It certainly sounds as if her surgeon was a major f***-up, but in a way that's a different, albeit hugely unfortunate, issue.  It sounds to me as if this person was hugely confused from day one and it is sad that no one caught it before she went so far, but still--she was an adult, and I would think that in four years time between beginning and having the surgery she could have got a clue herself that maybe she was on the wrong track since she seemed to be having nothing but bad experiences.  If I've read something wrongly, correct me, as always.

No matter how delusional, surgery can feel like the holy grail. She probably expected it to cure her dysphoria, but then it went awry and she still has dysphoria because the results are bad, and she's still not living life as a woman.
Apparently, some TS can't comprehend that some transwomen can't pass and are not accepted in any way shape or form and are harassed and treated like lepers. Living as a woman 'in your head only' is not enough for some people.
Are you telling me you'd be fulfilled in her position? Your questioning her womanhood because she feels less than womanly due to all the adversity she faces daily? (glares at several ladies in this thread)

She seemingly was not able to cure her social dysphoria in 4 years and then got SRS possibly because at least it would cure the physical dysphoria (but it was botched so she didn't even get that).

Though, there's the sexual aspect the article that throws me off. She should have known that unless the social aspects were going well, its unlikely SRS would help at all in the sexual aspect of relationships (and relationships in general) with men or women.

Right now, she's probably thinking, at least if I were still a male, I'd have a chance at a relationship even if its not ideal, and that would make me feel better. I sort of doubt it, there's a reason she went through the process in the first place...

There is a kind of solution, if indeed she doesn't feel female, transition back to male and be a ftm. Many FTM have proved that you can have a very worthwhile life, having relationships with women... If that's what she seeks.

But, again, there will always be the guilt and self-battering about what she did before even if they do fix the pain issue. Unless that's also "fixed" there will be no move forward.

I truely believe that she was female, but was not convinced herself. She thought that once the surgery was over with, she would feel 100% female. It doesn't work that way. You have to get through the phase of accepting yourself, by owning who you are. The surgery will do nothing except change the way you look, it won't change the way you feel or how you see yourself. This is why some trans people opt out for no surgery.
Not to mention the person who did the surgery. The way it was discribed was not the way most surgeons do the surgery. I have not heard of one who used the scrotum for the vagina, only to make it larger. True the penis tip is used for the clit, but not the whole thing. To be hurting that long, sounds kind of fishy to me. I wonder if this is a true story.
Sheila

I've just read the article, it's such a sad story and my heart goes out to her.
She's clearly suffered a lot throughout her life.
She sounds very alone, lost and desperate.
If only she knew about Susan's, so she could share her feelings with her brothers and sisters and we could try to help...


MVER XXX

Quote from: Sheila on July 13, 2007, 01:24:45 PM
To be hurting that long, sounds kind of fishy to me. I wonder if this is a true story.

I kind of wonder the same thing myself.  If it's a pinched nerve, that can be surgically corrected.  Another surgeon could also correct an aesthetically botched job.  I know they don't have much money, but if your life is truly ruined then you are better off trying to get the money.

Quote from: Nero on July 13, 2007, 12:42:15 PM
She may not have worded it correctly, but I don't think she meant she isn't a woman on the inside. I read it more as she's unhappy with her looks and the bad surgery results.

No, she summarizes the same thing at the end.

QuoteMy advice to other people in my situation would be: "Don't do it." I now realise that nothing less than being a woman can make me feel whole. And since no operation can make that happen, I just have to learn to live with myself as I am - the closest to being a woman I will ever get.'

She very clearly indicates that she has not yet accepted herself and thought surgery would be a magic cure-all which would make her feel whole.  Being accepted as your true gender is what will make somebody feel whole--not just the body.  I would think that you would understand this Nero.

Anyhow, I'm sorry she had such a terrible experience.  I hope she does find happiness eventually.  I just think she would not have been so disappointed if she had started out with realistic expectations.

Quote from: Sheila on July 13, 2007, 01:24:45 PM
I wonder if this is a true story.

Me too. It doesn't "sound" right, more like it was made up by haters to discredit the process and prove it "doesn't work," and that it doesn't make anyone a real woman." It's just SO over the top, SO tragic it's begins to sound constructed.

Clients dropping her because of a *rumour* about just crossdressing at home? People breaking in and throwing flaming bricks at into her home? I mean... ok, MAYBE, but it just sounds like a big, made-up BEWARE OF THE KILLER DOGS warning to scare people away from transitioning. It's the kind of "news accounts" you see posted on fundamentalist sites.

~Kate~

Quote from: Melissa on July 13, 2007, 01:54:25 PM

Quote from: Sheila on July 13, 2007, 01:24:45 PM
To be hurting that long, sounds kind of fishy to me. I wonder if this is a true story.

I kind of wonder the same thing myself.  If it's a pinched nerve, that can be surgically corrected.  Another surgeon could also correct an aesthetically botched job.  I know they don't have much money, but if your life is truly ruined then you are better off trying to get the money.

Quote from: Nero on July 13, 2007, 12:42:15 PM
She may not have worded it correctly, but I don't think she meant she isn't a woman on the inside. I read it more as she's unhappy with her looks and the bad surgery results.

No, she summarizes the same thing at the end.

QuoteMy advice to other people in my situation would be: "Don't do it." I now realise that nothing less than being a woman can make me feel whole. And since no operation can make that happen, I just have to learn to live with myself as I am - the closest to being a woman I will ever get.'

She very clearly indicates that she has not yet accepted herself and thought surgery would be a magic cure-all which would make her feel whole.  Being accepted as your true gender is what will make somebody feel whole--not just the body.  I would think that you would understand this Nero.

Anyhow, I'm sorry she had such a terrible experience.  I hope she does find happiness eventually.  I just think she would not have been so disappointed if she had started out with realistic expectations.

Yes, she does have self-acceptance issues. I was objecting to the implications of some here that she was not in fact female.

One has need of being honest with the shrink/therapist and also to one's self. Without that any journey will be a disaster.

Many think that SRS=cure for all of the bad things in my life. My therapists stated, rather strongly, that this is not the case over and over again and I agree.

   I don't blame her. I'll never know how she felt inside before or even after, but I think the process let her down. Not just the surgery, but the evaluations if there were any.  Part of why I quit the process I had begun was that I had unanswered questions.
   I have heard of cases where people have seen a mainstream psychiatrist and are told they are transsexual. I've had this in the back of my mind as odd because instead of just blurting it out like that, you'd think there would be a process of encouraging the patient to explore these misunderstood aspects of themselves.

   What if there was another explanation for her feelings beforehand and it wasn't explored? I'm talking about the possibility of an androgyne psyche. The way it is now, if you're Male you get told you're Female and vice versa.

Quote from: Nero on July 13, 2007, 02:07:51 PMYes, she does have self-acceptance issues. I was objecting to the implications of some here that she was not in fact female.

I wasn't sure what to think at first since the title makes it sound like she regrets transition in the first place, but then at the end of the article she asserts that she still needs to be a woman.