So, I've found myself facing a pretty big decision, and I really don't know where I want to go from here.

I've known since the beginning of transition that SRS was for me and that I would want to have it done. I've also known that I would want to get at least my forehead reconstructed as well, but I assumed that I would be OK with doing that down the line since I don't really have any issues passing.

The thing is, I pass because I wear makeup and because of my overall feminine presentation. When I wake up in the morning with no makeup, wearing a baggy t-shirt, etc. I look pretty darn masculine. I want to be able to go out without makeup or be able to answer the door in loungewear and be seen as a woman, and for that I definitely need to get my masculine forehead fixed. Not only does it have a pretty severe slope, but there a noticeable ridge, an indentation above the nose, and temporal lines running up each side of my forehead that are only hidden by makeup. I can't wear my hair up in public because of my forehead and because of my hairline.

The other thing is, I really, really want to leave my hometown and start a new life in a new city. If I do SRS this summer, I won't have any money left in the bank and will be home for another two years or so until I finish school. But if I go the FFS route with Dr. Cardenas, I will have enough money left over to move to a new city and start my new life. But, that would mean putting off SRS until I graduate, get a job, save up the money, etc which would likely be 3-4 years.

I don't have terrible dysphoria when it comes to my genitals as they are now. Most of my reservations about putting off SRS for a few years boils down to more difficulty dating while pre-op and not being able to go to the beach. The only real big scare is that if I put it off now, and things don't go as planned with school/work, I may not be able to afford it for a much longer time than planned.

So what do you guys think? I know this is a highly personal decision that only I will be able to make, but I'll gladly take some input from you all.

SRS in my experience takes a long time to fully recover from.  It takes at least a year and possibly longer (in my experience) to begin to regain sensitivity and for that sensitivity to map to the brain and to feel normal.  Really I was afraid to put my fingers inside of myself for maybe a couple of years because it just felt so creepy and essentially it had been a source of pain for a long time.  So taking this into consideration you may want to have SRS first.  Maybe it is different for different people.  Perhaps others can chime in.  And then you could wear bangs in the meantime.

I think in most cases we are always going to have a concern somewhere, transition tends not to be perfect (in my experience).  My scarring from FFS isn't bad except where the incisions and sutures where the skin lost it's pigmentation so I feel like I can't allow anyone to see me without makeup on those areas.  Also having SRS your body won't require high anti-androgens levels and you won't need as much estrogen but you will probably feminize more, physically and mentally, just because you won't have the testosterone factories (unless you already had orchiectomy).  Also you won't have to deal with someone who loves you but can't accept that you don't have feminine bits down there or vice versa, having to deal with a guy who loves you because you don't have feminine bits down there.  Especially if you were to want SRS later to his dismay.

And not sure if it still applies but you may be better able to take care of legal paperwork if you get SRS.

Depending on what type of surgery you would require for your forehead you might consider Dr. Pat of Tokai Clinic though he can't do the radical stuff I don't think.  If you just need to be ground on I would consider Dr. Pat and I think you would be amazed how much cheaper he is but don't have SRS with him assuming he even offers that option.  In good conscious I can only recommend Suporn and Chettawut and would highly recommend avoiding any North American Doctors, especially doctors in the USA.  They might give okay results sometimes but compared to what I have seen from Suporn and Chettawut, including my own revision with Chettawut...  In the interest of not offending anyone but in wanting to give good advice stick with Suporn or Chettawut.

I had SRS with Marci Bowers and even after Chettawut tried to fix what she did, when seeing another recent patient of Suporn and the work he did for her, I nearly burst into tears.  Her vagina was indistinguishable from a natal vagina and it was beautiful.   My original outcome with Marci Bowers was horrific and I wasn't able to have it corrected for five years because this stuff is expensive.  Instead for years I tried to convince myself that my results were okay or that they would improve, because I had no other alternative and I had to live with what was between my legs.  Honestly having my penis back would have been a good thing because much of what Marci did couldn't be fixed.

Your case is very complex but in your place i would go for SRS. FFS is the most important as you present yourself to the world by your FACE and not by your vagina however your face is VERY passable already. Dont be too fussy and harsh with yourself. Many women have brow ridges and yours even you have it pass fully ás female 100%. Even you had your FFS you'd still have to wear cosmetics and WiLL wear it as it's a sign of feminity and we all do and excuse me everyone appears ugly in the morning when they wae up even bio females.

Concerning your vagina if you will wait for 4 years despite your dysphoria is low you will not be able to date with REAL straight guys and attract only ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s with your penis. You might be able to attract straight guys but as soon as they aware you have penis you will end up as a freaq on which they will just want to have some new sexual experience and you will be deprived of true love even sex with 'real' straight guys. Very few 'real' straight will love you for real with a penis. The amount of rejection both sexual & emotional by real straight guys is very high. Having a penis is a complete disaster disgust & repulsion for MAJORiTY of straight guys. Better be without money than be with money but iNCOMPLETE with a penis and viewed as a freaq by people you date. no offense to non-ops out there but am saying for pre-ops with dysphoria.

Go for SRS baby...youth sex life and beauty won't last eternally to attract 'enjoyable' partners...

It seems your decision is really one that is not under a lot of pressure - you dont have much issues it seems both ways. If you really intend to go for dating now, I would agree that SRS is a good choice because i think that makes this part a lot easier. As the others said, your face probably would not really need a lot of work anyways, so at least in terms of interacting with others, I am not sure you would gain much.
I do however understand your desire for FFS and had those thoughts myself. I "pass" quite well usually - but when I see myself in the mirror after a shower or such I can be either ok with it (when I am happy and smiling and having my hair doen up just a little bit) or I can be horrified and see "the guy" which does not make any sense 15 years after beginning HRT but there it is - bad self image? Probably. That does not change that I am considering to have SOMETHING done just so the face does not - for me personally - remind me of someone I am no longer. So maybe this is the same with you, unless you really had tangible experiences about "not passing" when having no makeup. From your avatar image I would not think that is the case, but I may be wrong.

One thing that I thought of is about how to do any of this in a post-transition life. SRS is no problem - a few days in hospital, can be done in a vacation and no one has to know that you have stitches or are dilating before and after work. But FFS or voice surgery - those are huge changes visible to everyone, openly healing for weeks. If I were to do any of that now, I would not have a clue as to how to explain why I have no voice for weeks or am all swollen in the face - not to mention that people afterwards obviously would not the difference and wonder why I had done this. Maybe at least facial surgery is more common in the US and can be put up as a cosmetic procedure, in Germany here you will be looked down on for doing such a thing just for the looks. With voice surgery this is even worse as few non trans people would have any such thing done, I assume. Plus in both cases I know that people I already know well will want to know why I did that, some that do not know my history then would suspect something (the opposite of the desired effect) and of course friends would tell me that they dont like it because I am for them not longer as I used to be, but that is another issue.
What I think makes sense from these observations is to do the more obvious outwardly changes rather early on so people you get to know from there on will be used to that already. If one has a way and feels good doing it, moving to a new place with new work and all that may be beneficial at the time of such a major outwardly change. But some people are like me and do not want to move and leave friends behind... so this may not be an option for everyone.

If the picture in your avatar is you and an accurate depiction of you then I am not sure why you are asking the question. It would seem SRS would be the one and only focal point.

I don't get the person talking about how long it takes for srs to heal. I mean yes it does take a long time but its just a fact of life. You cant avoid it. So why delay it?

Katie

actually i faced this decision. and everything you said Sounds like me. so i had to choose srs. why? because of legal presentation and documents and to be whole. it was always Something i knew i wanted. but you can Always get ffs later. Once you start actually living. you dont want that to be pushed to the back Because life will push it back. do it now for others who waited for Many many years because of life.

if that is you in your avatar... go for srs.
i won't believe in your ability to look male unless you present me with some better evidence than a picture of a girl that is very much to my liking.

or actually, i found a pic of you without makeup (unless you lied in that post).
you don't need ffs. please believe me when i say this.
you already look so pretty.
one smile would convince anyone that you've always been a woman. even if you told them contrary.

Thank you so much for all of your responses.

My pictures do hide a lot of the masculinity in my face/forehead, but I suppose part of that could be that fact that we are always so critical of ourselves. Every time I see myself without makeup I can only focus on the masculine parts of myself, especially the forehead. It creates much more dysphoria for me than anything else.

But at the same time, if I pass with makeup then I suppose it would make more sense to put off my FFS. I just wish I could afford to do SRS and move away, because for me I feel mentally it'll be difficult to really start the new life as the new me while I'm still living in the little town I grew up in. But I guess I should consider myself lucky enough to be able to afford the surgery in the first place. And since FFS is cheaper (since I'm just doing forehead/hairline and maybe nose) it means I wouldn't have to wait as long to save up for it.

On further consideration, the dating part is a bit bigger of an aspect for me than I originally indicated in my post. I've been single for a long time, and when I decided to transition I knew it would be quite a while before I would feel comfortable dating again since I really wanted to wait to be intimate with somebody until I had my surgery. And thinking about it, if I had to wait another 3-4 years to date I'm not sure how I could handle it. Being a lesbian though I think it may be a little bit easier to find a partner pre-op, but me personally I don't know if I could get into a relationship until after my surgery.

So I still have time to decide - if I go the SRS route I just need to decide by December as that's when I would have to book the surgery by. And who knows, maybe something will change between now and then that will allow me to do both.

Thanks again everyone!

your hairline is the only thing i'd let you worry about, but not for more than one minute a day. the rest is definitely good enough.

srs would probably do you better than ffs right now. i think people are more particular about parts than hairline (it's not that far receded on you if you have hair on top of your head) for sexual preferences. and even a bald woman is still a woman.

Ah yes - the dreaded hairline. I got the same stupid idea in my head all the time - wathcing it in th emirror, fretting about it, getting depressed about it. Of course if that would be the only flaw, I would not be concerened, but I know the idea - its the overall impresison and if that bit is one that makes you feel more masculine than you feel good with, I totally get that. Its not visible in the avatar image of course, so I am speculating. I think it is hard to get a good idea of what others really see when they look at you and if they notice any "maleness" at all - and what you yourself is perceiving. I think ones own perception can be very unkind to some features to the degree of being obsessed by it. I am not sure if FFS solves that or if it shifts to something else then, but I can relate. Still if those are the only things you plan - hairline and nose - then I would agree here to think more about SRS if tha tis what you want to do anyways, especially because of having lesbian relationships (they usually dont like male genitalia that much ) seems to be something you desire rather sooner than later. Just dont get too neurotic over the hairline thingy - maybe find a way to find out if it really is an issue or if it is mostly in your own perception.

What is the surgery that you can live without the most, leave that one until later.

Quote from: abbyt89 on September 19, 2013, 10:38:08 PM
I want to be able to go out without makeup or be able to answer the door in loungewear and be seen as a woman, and for that I definitely need to get my masculine forehead fixed.

I keep an attractive feminine hat by the door. If someone knocks, I put the hat on before I answer. The details of my forehead, head shape, and bald spot on the top, are all concealed.

When I first looked at you picture, I was stunned.  You are a beautiful woman.

I'm facing the same decision and I opted for FFS first.  I'm not a beautiful woman.  I do not pass..at all.

For me or for me, living at home would not be good.  However, when I returned at 27 to finish my bachelors, that is where I went.  Living there gave me the time I needed to study and work without worrying about everything else.  In a similar manner, it might give you the secure place to work through the demands of post SRS recovery while you finish your studies. 

Over the past ten years, I have rebuilt several cabins at a small resort I own in Northern MN.  I did most of the work myself, up to cutting the trees and hauling them to a mill so that they would be used for the interior walls and floors.  I put in those walls and floors and trim and kitchens and bathrooms.  Every weekend, for ten years, I have gone up and worked.  But no matter how great they look, every time I walk into one of those cabins, I see the two or three tiny places where a joint in the molding doesn't fit perfectly or where I could have sanded that board just a little more and it would be smoother.  In reality, the cabins are truly incredible and some of the best in northern MN.  But there are just those teeny, tiny spots that I see.  I believe that what I see in them is related to what you see in the mirror.  You see that little, teeny, tiny imperfection in a beautiful woman.

But now, I am done.  It's my time.  It's time for Jennifer. 

You need that same time I am having.  Done with the big task and off to live life.  It's a good feeling so do what will enable you to get that same feeling.

Hugs,
Jen

I'm in the same boat. I would not pass without FSS, so that's going to be my first surgery. Body wise I'm not too bad for someone in their 50s (and I'm short).

Now if I looked like Abby, that would be different.

Abby, in your one picture you look beautiful & very happy. So from that it would seem SRS might be the next step?

Ah just realized - Abby also had VFS recently. I would say that this makes a huge difference if it works out well which IMO very well makes FFS even less an urgent matter than without that. From the picture I dont even see how FFS would be needed, but with a voice that goes with that face in the photo, I would say now to leave that alone for now and focus on SRS and then see later if you still have issues with how people see you - I believe if the voice is good, people will overlook some more male characteristics in a face just like they do with all the other women who have some male-ish characteristics in the face. But thats of course just my opinion, I know one looks critical at the face - I do so always - and if this is more annoying to you than to not have your private parts fixed then so be it. Just saying that from that single photo I would think that this is more a mental thing for you.

Well I was in the same situation a few years ago. My friends said you are so lucky you don't need FFS. But I wanted to start over and go stealth. I am quite determined when I want something. I was self conscious of my forehead. The first thing people see is your face. That is how they determine gender. Its an unconditioned response. They surely aren't to ask you to drop yer knickers or the like. Trust me I was after the SRS as well. From what I have read you have the voice taken care of which is a gigantic issue for loads of us. I was fortunate that I have a spot on voice. Voice speech pattern and mannerisms I never had an issue with because I did it naturally which caused a miserable existence before a transitioned lol. Everyone thought I was just gay.

I got FFS in Argentina and it was the best thing I ever did for my confidence. I was able to go stealth. I went on a job interview the day after I returned from Argentina and got the job for more money than I had ever made before. Since then I got BA and less than 2 months time ago, SRS. FFS really changed my life. With FFS, and loads of hard work saving every bit of my wages I could spare, I was able to accomplish most of my goals so far. I have managed to be completely stealth. Only my family and my bf know my past.

SRS is very important as well. I feel only now after SRS I deserve the true title "female". Thats just my personal belief. I know some say "I feel I am a woman and therefor I am". I just think its something to be earned. When its attained you are far more appreciative of what you have accomplished.

Thank you for the kind words and responses everyone. I think I am going to do SRS and put off my FFS. I had a particularly bad bout of dysphoria related to my forehead the other day when I posted this thread and now that I've read all of your posts I am feeling a lot better about it.

Quote from: JLT1 on September 20, 2013, 12:12:49 PM
When I first looked at you picture, I was stunned.  You are a beautiful woman.

I'm facing the same decision and I opted for FFS first.  I'm not a beautiful woman.  I do not pass..at all.

For me or for me, living at home would not be good.  However, when I returned at 27 to finish my bachelors, that is where I went.  Living there gave me the time I needed to study and work without worrying about everything else.  In a similar manner, it might give you the secure place to work through the demands of post SRS recovery while you finish your studies. 

Over the past ten years, I have rebuilt several cabins at a small resort I own in Northern MN.  I did most of the work myself, up to cutting the trees and hauling them to a mill so that they would be used for the interior walls and floors.  I put in those walls and floors and trim and kitchens and bathrooms.  Every weekend, for ten years, I have gone up and worked.  But no matter how great they look, every time I walk into one of those cabins, I see the two or three tiny places where a joint in the molding doesn't fit perfectly or where I could have sanded that board just a little more and it would be smoother.  In reality, the cabins are truly incredible and some of the best in northern MN.  But there are just those teeny, tiny spots that I see.  I believe that what I see in them is related to what you see in the mirror.  You see that little, teeny, tiny imperfection in a beautiful woman.

But now, I am done.  It's my time.  It's time for Jennifer. 

You need that same time I am having.  Done with the big task and off to live life.  It's a good feeling so do what will enable you to get that same feeling.

Hugs,
Jen

I loved this story - thank you so much for sharing it! It's a very good way of putting how we can feel about our own appearances and the strive for perfection that we all want but can't obtain.

Quote from: anjaq on September 21, 2013, 08:41:38 AM
Ah just realized - Abby also had VFS recently. I would say that this makes a huge difference if it works out well which IMO very well makes FFS even less an urgent matter than without that. From the picture I dont even see how FFS would be needed, but with a voice that goes with that face in the photo, I would say now to leave that alone for now and focus on SRS and then see later if you still have issues with how people see you - I believe if the voice is good, people will overlook some more male characteristics in a face just like they do with all the other women who have some male-ish characteristics in the face. But thats of course just my opinion, I know one looks critical at the face - I do so always - and if this is more annoying to you than to not have your private parts fixed then so be it. Just saying that from that single photo I would think that this is more a mental thing for you.

I think you're right - my voice is sounding more and more feminine as it's healing and I think that will help with how self-conscious I am about my appearance. It's all about the overall presentation when people gender you.

your nose is cute, your smile is pretty, and you don't even have a cleft in your chin to worry about...
just remembering some silly worries i had when i was younger.

Quote from: abbyt89 on September 20, 2013, 08:17:59 AM
Being a lesbian though I think it may be a little bit easier to find a partner pre-op, but me personally I don't know if I could get into a relationship until after my surgery.

I don't know I thought it would be harder for pre-op trans women who are lesbians to date since some lesbians are very into the vag. For somone like me, you know there is anal sex and ->-bleeped-<-s. Plus some guys are willing to wait if they like you. You have to be very passable either bodywise and facewise (usually both but prolly more so the body) though to get a BF who is straight if you are pre-op.

I would go for surgery though because of the dating thing. And I would move to a city. I live in such a large city I can just blend in and never see anyone. I wont be able to afford SRS for another year or two so that sucks. But I have at least a year before I can anyway.

But I love men and love the penis so we have different goals. I just think some men can be much more understanding then they get credit for.