Hey guys so tonight I was on tumblr and I saw something VERY interesting.

This guys is trans. He is on T, had top surgery (keyhole), and a meta with a hysto. As far as I know he went through a "female" puberty and experienced shark week.  But he has a Y Chromosome!!   😮

He said on his tumblr that he got a DNA test because he wanted to trace his lineage and they found a Y Chromosome. He got his paternal lineage results back so he's certain he has a Y Chromosome. He said he's not sure of his "chromosome congifuration" (XY, XXY).

I wish he had said more about it. I have so many questions lol!

Has anyone heard of anything like this?  Or know anything more about his story? (Not sure if I should post his blog address or not; even though he's very public about everything about him).

Is it possible that he's XY with having to deal with shark week?

Anyone else had a chromosome test and get these results or know of anyone else, even a female identified person, who did?

I just find this very interesting. Especially since I've always felt like I had a Y Chromosome or was intersex or something myself; both because of some physical things/traits and a gut feeling as well!

XXY is Klinefelter's Syndrome. Swyer Syndrome is XY, but would not allow somebody to have a period.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/93/1/182.full.pdf

This was about females with XY chromosomes.

Yes it is medically possible.

Male anatomy is determined by a small gene caller SrY...

The part of the arm containing that small component can very occasionally become detached from a Y chromosome during the chiasma phase of meiotic cell division. It may then be lost resulting in an SrY deficient Y chromosome and/or it may become attached to an X chromosome, resulting in an SrY enabled X.

There are documented XX males - and some XY females alive. They are extremely rare indeed but they do exist. They are often of very low fertility, but not infertile so yes a true XY female (as opposed to someone who was merely CAIS or XXY - which are different conditions to what I am describing) could indeed menstruate. Either that or my medical textbook is lying, which I assure you it isn't.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on September 22, 2013, 02:59:41 AM
Yes it is medically possible.

Male anatomy is determined by a small gene caller SrY...

The part of the arm containing that small component can very occasionally become detached from a Y chromosome during the chiasma phase of meiotic cell division. It may then be lost resulting in an SrY deficient Y chromosome and/or it may become attached to an X chromosome, resulting in an SrY enabled X.

There are documented XX males - and some XY females alive. They are extremely rare indeed but they do exist. They are often of very low fertility, but not infertile so yes a true XY female (as opposed to someone who was merely CAIS or XXY - which are different conditions to what I am describing) could indeed menstruate. Either that or my medical textbook is lying, which I assure you it isn't.

Very interesting!

So in your opinion he could very well be an XY female?

Are there any "usual symptoms" of being a true XY female?  Like they always had more male physical traits? Or is that not necessary to be a true XY female?

Sadly I'm only a medical student as yet - so I don't have all the answers on this.

My understanding of this is that because about 75% of the X and Y chromosomes are interchangeable - there isn't much difference except that because some genetic information in the long arm of the X is lost there may be impairment to fertility.

Although I don't call myself trans I was intersex at birth and required some minor corrective surgery as a very young adult to become the person I now am. So technically I am a sterile XY female myself... the interesting thing to me is that the neuroanatomy that controls gender identity does NOT appear to be controlled by the same genes as the physical anatomy. So cross gender development is not impossible, but would not correlate at all with abnormalities of physical development.

Oddly I am at medical school with a lady called Catherine who prior to training for medicine was a Phd in this field and was researching just this. The genetics of neuroanatomical development are as yet very much in infancy - but talk to experts in that field like her, and they will all tell you that there are major and surprising discoveries in that field soon to come, one of which may well provide the key to understanding transgender development.

No, that was indeed once believed, but subsequently that has been shown to be wrong.

It is hugely rare however - I don't have the precise epidemiology to hand - but it is at least an order of magnitude rarer than say CAIS - and of course mostly invisible, which is why there is so little knowledge of the condition.

You also have the possibility of mosaicism and chimerism.

Quote from: broken. on September 22, 2013, 03:56:53 AM
Okay, I guess anything's possible then 🙂 not that chromosomes matter anyway! haha

Maybe not to most of us, but a lot of people are always going on about FTMs' "female" chromosomes...when most of us haven't even been tested. I think that most people just assume that FTMs have XX chromosomes, and that gives some of those folks more reason to hate on us. Sigh.

Quote from: Arch on September 22, 2013, 04:07:57 AM
Maybe not to most of us, but a lot of people are always going on about FTMs' "female" chromosomes...when most of us haven't even been tested. I think that most people just assume that FTMs have XX chromosomes, and that gives some of those folks more reason to hate on us. Sigh.

I know it sounds harsh, but the transphobic camp cares nothing for chromosomes.  If it was somehow proven that all MtF's are XX and FtM's XY, they would find-slash-create some other difference to harp on.  It's like when people claim to hate homosexuality "because da bible," when they're unable to quote a single relevant passage.

Quote from: Horizon on September 22, 2013, 12:08:42 PM
I know it sounds harsh, but the transphobic camp cares nothing for chromosomes.  If it was somehow proven that all MtF's are XX and FtM's XY, they would find-slash-create some other difference to harp on.  It's like when people claim to hate homosexuality "because da bible," when they're unable to quote a single relevant passage.

Actually, I've seen quite a lot of transphobic arguments that conclude with chromosomes. Some arguments do start with religion, but some don't. The chromosome argument is often the final nail in the coffin of a religious OR nonreligious anti-trans argument.

Quote from: broken. on September 22, 2013, 03:56:53 AM
Okay, I guess anything's possible then 🙂 not that chromosomes matter anyway! haha

Well lots of things are. I get very amused when I read things like "It's all black and white, if you have XX you're a girl, if you have XY you're a boy". Well yes except when and you could list about a zillion things. In fact most of us have no reason to get our chromosomes figured out. And as you say, not that it matters much.

--Jay

Quote from: Arch on September 22, 2013, 01:17:00 PM
Actually, I've seen quite a lot of transphobic arguments that conclude with chromosomes. Some arguments do start with religion, but some don't. The chromosome argument is often the final nail in the coffin of a religious OR nonreligious anti-trans argument.

Quite a few members of the anti-trans camp would switch to our side if chromosomes were in our favor, sure, but what I'm saying is that the rest, those in deep fear of anything out of the norm, will always be looking for new reasons to despise us and anyone unlike them.  I mean, I've met individuals who had a deep-rooted disgust of black people, and, when questioned, would spew complete nonsense.  It's horrible, but some will never learn to look past their fears and insecurities.

Again, not to say that I'm completely disagreeing with you - being trans has made me a bit of a bitter pessimist when it comes to humans.

Some of the haters could very well have unusual chromosomes themselves, and some of the trans people do as well.

I've seen people who are otherwise transphobic who allow leeway for the intersex because intersex people have something "real" (i.e., physically provable) that is "wrong" with them and that explains their desire to live in a way that is at odds with their assigned birth sex or obvious physical characteristics.

All of which seems to take us farther and farther afield from the OP...

Well to an extent the point is that emerging evidence does support the position that chromosomes are somewhat in your favour because as I observed there is now some good research data to indicate that there are genetic factors which influence the development of the brain outside of simple physical sex.

These are NOT completely synonymous with the known sex hormones and chromosomes. So just because you are XX or XY this does not correlate to the necessity that your brain will follow that developmental path. Quite soon there are likely to be primitive diagnostic criteria that could indicate a risk factor to transgender development. The trouble is this will tend to become a two edged sword - because there will then be those who will argue for genetic screening and selective medical abortion to eliminate the condition.

Their argument will be further strengthened by the apparent distress the condition creates.

This is one reason why I have worked hard to perceive, appreciate and emphasise to others, the positive aspects of my androgynous childhood experience in life, because personally I would not want to have been screened out.

It may be different if one is classically trans, but personally, although there have been downsides like lack of fertility, there are also undoubted positives like no real periods, greater physical strength, a more powerful set of lungs, the fact that my relatively stable endocrine levels have helped me to somewhat defy the ageing process, etc etc...

Plus of course the biggie which was that thanks to very well informed parents I got to choose at an early stage which side I wanted to play for! 😀

Quote from: Arch on September 22, 2013, 04:00:15 PMI've seen people who are otherwise transphobic who allow leeway for the intersex because intersex people have something "real" (i.e., physically provable) that is "wrong" with them and that explains their desire to live in a way that is at odds with their assigned birth sex or obvious physical characteristics.

I have seen this crop up often in conversations.  I think it's a sorry state of things when FTMs have to "wish" that they had a Y chromosome to feel validated.