l always thought a mtf vagina and a cis vagina appear the same and can never be clocked until recently i met with a new pre-op friend who was telling me she has 4 friends all Suporn girls and they all got clocked. still don't understand WHAT exactly about the vagina does them get cloced.

Did you post-op ever get clocked by your vagina? What was your partner's reaction? Did he back out? Continued? Or kept on asking? Did you deny as hell or told the truth? What was their overall reaction?

I can hear the surgeons lining up to quote Dr McCoy from Star Trek "I'm a doctor not a miracle worker" - basically what you end up with is a close approximation but not identical - for example the clitoris will be wrong- the introitus will lack the muscular ring at the opening - the vagina will be lined with exoskin - the lining epithelium will lack gobet cells and mucus glands to say nothing of scar tissue etc etc ... In short there will be a number of ways that someone with a little basic anatomical knowledge could tell.

Years ago when trans was less well known people wouldn't spot it because they weren't looking for it, now the downside of greater acceptance and knowledge is that people are aware and once you are - spotting it is very very very easy! I have seen the results of almost every major surgeon and without exception I could spot them almost instantly. Unfortunately it's the nature of the beast. You start with one set of anatomy the surgeon gets you closer to another - but there are some things they just can't change and that's the way it is.

I had an intersex condition - as a result my bone structure appearance and voice is pretty darn undetectable - but an intimate exam by one of my medical colleagues would out me in an instant. So this applies just as much to me.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on September 23, 2013, 01:47:46 PM

I had an intersex condition - as a result my bone structure appearance and voice is pretty darn undetectable - but an intimate exam by one of my medical colleagues would out me in an instant. So this applies just as much to me.

Absolutely, and of course any OB-GYN would pick up on it pretty quickly, best not to ask for a pelvic exam unless there is a real good medical reason for it. Other than that, no ordinary male or female will pick up on it, there's no way!

Unfortunately I think there is a lot more knowledge out there now and quite a number of ordinary people do. Yes I am a medic and therefore arguably a special case but actually it's always good to remember that you are relying on ignorance... And while that may hold good 90% of the time there is always the danger of finding that person who does know about these things...

Quote from: Doctorwho? on September 23, 2013, 02:08:41 PM
Unfortunately I think there is a lot more knowledge out there now and quite a number of ordinary people do. Yes I am a medic and therefore arguably a special case but actually it's always good to remember that you are relying on ignorance... And while that may hold good 90% of the time there is always the danger of finding that person who does know about these things...

Uh-yeah, but the secret is to keep your panties on!  I have been asked to look at some of my girlfriend's vaginoplasty's one done by Brassard and another by Toby Meltzer, I'm no expert but am ashamed to say that I have eyeballed a lot more cis female vaginas up close and personel over the years and I didn't see anything but exceptional vaginas on the MtF women staring back at me. So generally speaking, unless you are having your vagina or clitoris inspected by a healthcare professional you will not be outed by your SRS job as long as it's sufficiently healed.

Shan I think you are missing the point.


As far as I'm concerned my corrective surgery was over and done 30 years ago and anyway it was significantly different from what you folks have to have so-basically mine is not the issue - but the original poster was asking how she had been clocked by someone she was having sex with ... So unless there is something I'm missing here ....

obviously she had her panties off!!!!

I just threw in the comment about me as an aside to soften the blow of the bad news to her and anyone else that their vag is not going to be undetectable if they take their Knicks off sorry but it just isn't!

Like I say most young lay people that I know know a LOT more than about this you slightly older folk seem to imagine... Sorry don't want to be ageist or anything but the world has moved on quite a lot since the internet gave everyone access to the info.

Well, now I'm a sad panda.   

I've always heard SRS is very realistic and spotting it would not be very easy.  That's what I've seen through my research and from those who have gotten it done.  While I understand nothing is perfect and professionals can tell, I didn't think it was this easy to spot and distinguish. 

Easier than most people imagine once you know what to look for ... And THAT is the problem - because a lot of men view online porn where there are no shortage of postoperative trans girls that they can see - so quite a lot of people do know. Now - that isn't everyone... But if you put yourself at risk by not telling someone your background on the basis of relying on them being ignorant it could go badly wrong. That's all I am saying.

Yes the results are good - but they are not perfect. They are as good as current techniques will allow - but not perfect and personally I think it's a good idea to go into this with realistic understanding of what can and can't be done otherwise you are potentially going to be disappointed.

It's good but not perfect.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on September 23, 2013, 02:49:57 PM
Easier than most people imagine once you know what to look for ... And THAT is the problem - because a lot of men view online porn where there are no shortage of postoperative trans girls that they can see - so quite a lot of people do know. Now - that isn't everyone... But if you put yourself at risk by not telling someone your background on the basis of relying on them being ignorant it could go badly wrong. That's all I am saying.

Yes the results are good - but they are not perfect. They are as good as current techniques will allow - but not perfect and personally I think it's a good idea to go into this with realistic understanding of what can and can't be done otherwise you are potentially going to be disappointed.

It's good but not perfect.

Yeah, I understand that nothing is perfect.  I have post op friends, so I have been very inquisitive about this and have a good idea. Still, it's disheartening that it's so detectable that men who simply watch porn can detect the differences. I didn't think that was the case.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on September 23, 2013, 02:30:59 PM
Shan I think you are missing the point.

The original poster was asking how she had been clocked by someone she was having sex with ... So unless there is something I'm missing here ....

obviously she had her panties off!!!!

Really??? You'd better read it again!

My female therapist is also a MD and she so some vaginas from a German plastic surgeon which looked absolut natural to her. I also saw hus work and it was amazing. Of course you find differences but only if you have some medical knowledge and if you look for differences. The vagina even gets wet when you are aroused. Even his scars can be nearly invisible. He uses a special method which has some similarities but also some differences to Suporn

I already visited him and I got a date for surgery. I did not started HRT yet but his waiting list is long.

Lara

Quote from: learningtolive on September 23, 2013, 02:37:41 PM
Well, now I'm a sad panda.   

I've always heard SRS is very realistic and spotting it would not be very easy.  That's what I've seen through my research and from those who have gotten it done.  While I understand nothing is perfect and professionals can tell, I didn't think it was this easy to spot and distinguish.

Hairless crotches tend to reveal the scars in greater detail.

The opening post is without any evidence, so it is hearsay.  Nothing to get too worried about.

I don't have sex with people other than my partner and I prefer women anyway, so "he" won't be giving me any kind of reactions.

My insurance company threw a fit and required that I see a gynecologist to justify why someone my age (36) was menopausal and needed an endocrinologist and HRT. Since I've switched insurance post-transition, they do have me listed as female with no qualifiers. I fully expected to go in and explain my situation, and that my medical records would have included the relevant information that I was 14 months post-op... and instead the gyn bustled in, briskly poked a speculum in and did a quick exam, looked up, and said "No problem, I'll write you a letter." When I SAW the letter, it listed me as having had a hysterectomy and oophorectomy, and certified that there was internal evidence of that surgery!  I had to call back and tell the office there'd been some mistake, and the doctor called me back to say she'd rewrite the letter to simply "surgical menopause" but sounded like she thought I was making up the explanation. It was a really weird experience all around.

To be fair, the external scarring is essentially invisible, the internal is apparently located more or less appropriately (?), and the gyn didn't go rummaging about to examine my clit (which would be unprofessional in the context).

My GP who saw everything initially also told me that the only giveaway on an internal exam was some half-healed scar tissue. And I was in the
ER at about 10 months post-op with a nasty GI bug and had 2 nurses and one doctor who'd seen me with my pants off (...nobody wants to know why), and they still also ran a pregnancy test on  the urine sample they'd taken to check for UTI. I was too sick to argue at that point
and looked like hell and my voice was awful, too. I have no clue why nobody twigged to anything there.

Aside from my own experiences, I've seen photos of one other friend's results, and at least in 2-D it looked perfectly ordinary.

Quote from: learningtolive on September 23, 2013, 02:37:41 PM
Well, now I'm a sad panda.   

I've always heard SRS is very realistic and spotting it would not be very easy.  That's what I've seen through my research and from those who have gotten it done.  While I understand nothing is perfect and professionals can tell, I didn't think it was this easy to spot and distinguish.

Have hope that we may have some medical breakthroughs in the next few years. They can already grow organs in labs, which will eventually negate the need for organ donors.

I was "read" in my health plan because they had been treating me as a male for over 30 years, and I had my post surgery letter to put on their records at the time I had a yeast issue two weeks PO.  Turns out the gynecologist had recently spent a few days learning specifics about post ops since the health plan will be funding and eventually doing SRS next year.  (The story of my life that I am too soon in things, I paid for my own last January.) The gynecologist had to do a full check with a speculum and saw the narrowest little scar line pretty deep inside, but the rest compared with her other post menopausal patients very well.  For a diabetic, I had almost no scarring and very good wound closure, but a couple of potential scar lines sure itched until the sutures came out.

I do know a couple of Suporn girls too who have been clocked, but it was not the vagina that did it all by itself, it was a set of horizontal lips above their necks that did it and not the vertical four beneath their pubic bones. 

Quote from: Vicky on September 23, 2013, 05:59:39 PM

I do know a couple of Suporn girls too who have been clocked, but it was not the vagina that did it all by itself, it was a set of horizontal lips above their necks that did it and not the vertical four beneath their pubic bones.

Yeah, if there are other things that makes someone suspicious, then they may be adding two and two together. That's kind of what I was thinking when I first read this topic earlier.

Quote from: Evolving Beauty on September 23, 2013, 10:44:23 AM
l always thought a mtf vagina and a cis vagina appear the same and can never be clocked until recently i met with a new pre-op friend who was telling me she has 4 friends all Suporn girls and they all got clocked. still don't understand WHAT exactly about the vagina does them get cloced.

Did you post-op ever get clocked by your vagina? What was your partner's reaction? Did he back out? Continued? Or kept on asking? Did you deny as hell or told the truth? What was their overall reaction?

I knew of a guy who told his girlfriend that he was able to tell she was trans by her vagina.  He knew she was trans and he felt it was better to lie to her and tell her that he was able to tell by her vagina than by the fact that what he really noticed was the way she carried herself, her personality, her voice and a dozen other little "tells", some that he was able to consciously identify and others that were harder to explain.  But he felt it was important to let her know that he knew she was trans and that lying to her and telling her that it was her vagina would cause her less emotional harm.

I know of another guy who found out from a mutual friend that his girlfriend had transitioned and he too absolutely had to let her know that he knew but the person who spilled the beans on the girl made him promise not to tell her who told him so instead of going to his girlfriend and saying, "Your best friend told me you are really a trans woman and even showed me a picture of you from before you transitioned."  He lied and told her that he could tell her vagina was a neo-vagina.

In my experience it is nearly impossible to tell a Suporn or a Chettawut vagina from original equipment.  My Bowers vagina very obviously had something seriously wrong with it.  Some of Marci's work isn't as bad but if you want something that looks normal and even attractive I would stick with Suporn or Chettawut.  The Montreal results look slightly better than Marci's more recent work.  Have a look for yourself as pretty much all the doctors provide images of their results and compare those results to ordinary vaginas.

Thousands of men have seen my vagina since I do adult work and I only get compliments.  My vagina stopped outting me after I had my revision with Chettawut.  If you look at porn you may have even seen me and not known.

Quote from: Kate G on September 23, 2013, 06:52:03 PM

I knew of a guy who told his girlfriend that he was able to tell she was trans by her vagina.  He knew she was trans and he felt it was better to lie to her and tell her that he was able to tell by her vagina than by the fact that what he really noticed was the way she carried herself, her personality, her voice and a dozen other little "tells", some that he was able to consciously identify and others that were harder to explain.  But he felt it was important to let her know that he knew she was trans and that lying to her and telling her that it was her vagina would cause her less emotional harm.

I know of another guy who found out from a mutual friend that his girlfriend had transitioned and he too absolutely had to let her know that he knew but the person who spilled the beans on the girl made him promise not to tell her who told him so instead of going to his girlfriend and saying, "Your best friend told me you are really a trans woman and even showed me a picture of you from before you transitioned."  He lied and told her that he could tell her vagina was a neo-vagina.

In my experience it is nearly impossible to tell a Suporn or a Chettawut vagina from original equipment.  My Bowers vagina very obviously had something seriously wrong with it.  Some of Marci's work isn't as bad but if you want something that looks normal and even attractive I would stick with Suporn or Chettawut.  The Montreal results look slightly better than Marci's more recent work.  Have a look for yourself as pretty much all the doctors provide images of their results and compare those results to ordinary vaginas.

Thousands of men have seen my vagina since I do adult work and I only get compliments.  My vagina stopped outting me after I had my revision with Chettawut.  If you look at porn you may have even seen me and not known.

Kate -- I am sorry to hear that about your experience with Dr. Bowers, because I am one of her girls from last January, and I have nothing to complain about and so much to be happy about. I have all the parts, and now that my pubic hair is back even one faint scar line is under cover. 

there is so much ignorance in this thread. there is no way you can clock a post vagina.. especially if they have went to one of the top surgeons. some of these girls that were "clocked" vaginas must all be butchered.   ruling has been made. vaginas all come in different varieties. even women  who are born in the right body vaginas are sometimes ugly looking. get real. most of us are women here. some may be simply be drag. being happy and completed. our goal isnt to be like everyone else. just complete.    oh .. imo