I'm so embarrassed to write this post, but I'm going to write it anyway, because I'm sure many of my brothers here have experienced something similar. I just started college/university/whatever you want to call it. I am full time as male but pre everything. Everyone treats me as a guy and calls me the right pronouns (apart from one girl one time but I haven't seen her since) so it's going ok in that sense. I was out with a girl today and a woman said to us 'thanks ladies'. My stomach sank and as we walked away the girl I was with said 'she just said thanks ladies didn't she?' I panicked and said 'yeah I get that a lot' and she said 'really?' and I said 'yeah it gets quite annoying, I'm a dude.' and that was that. I didn't know what else to say, but she didn't pick up on it or say anything else. I don't know if I handled it ok or not.

Anyway, that girl I was with is really nice and I'd like to get to know her more, but I don't want to come on too strong or anything, in case she recognises that I'm trans and doesn't want to know me. She's added me on facebook and we talk quite frequently. 9 times out of 10 she messages me first. I don't want to message her first in case it's too full on or anything. Also, I'm 18 but I've never kissed a girl, or anyone for that matter. If things do happen with anyone here, I don't want to be rubbish at it and put them off. Is there a right way to do it? How do you ask a girl out on a date? Also, I know college/university is a time where people might get a bit personal with one another, and this feels very difficult for me. How do you disclose to someone that you're trans before anything happens? I'm still a virgin and I have absolutely no intention of doing anything sexual with any girl that I've just met, but say someone does come along, how do I work with that?

Sorry, it's just been on my mind lately and I don't exactly know what to do. It's all new to me. And another thing, because I've had to hide liking girls for years, I'm finding it hard to say I like girls and show an interest because I've had to hide it so long. In a way it still feels different, even though it's the 'norm' for guys to like girls. (I don't want to cause offence by that statement to anybody who is gay, lesbian or bisexual. I'm just going by the basis of today's society that they expect everyone to be straight) It's like I'm still hiding it, even though I don't have to anymore. Is this a common thing to feel?

Yeah she probably is just being friendly and stuff, which is completely fine by me. I don't know her that well yet so I like her as a friend, nothing more or anything at the moment. I'm just wondering generally with girls and stuff because I've never had to do this before haha.

Thanks for the website. I went on it and none of the images showed up then I remembered I'm on the university's internet and will probably now get my internet removed hahaha.

Thanks for the advice though, I really appreciate it.

If You guys dont mind me chiming in I have dated girls and also - are not MtFs supposed to understand cis-girls better than guys anyway?
So, being pre-T is quite a benefit, because You surely dont want to rush things up (and T is quite terrible in that - if You ever wonder why girls during and after pubery are very much into romance and cuddling, but guys just want sex - well, You are going to find out soon...). Be slow, but be persistant and make her feel special. Cinema and ice-cream sounds nice (but be sure to pick out the right movie - the one which will set the correct mood). Starting Your supposed "date" with a small flower would not be a bad choice too - and You will get to see how she responds to it.  Please, for the sake of everything, keep Your hands in control - if done with perfect timing, that can be a winner, but if done wrongly it is an instant turn off (I know that from both sides ).
During the date, be nice, be gentleman, but be a little bit firm and assertive. Make the choices, but dont exaggerate - dont let it look like You are trying to dominate - but try for that coming out naturally. Wherever it goes, dont let her be the one who chooses the pace - first of all, we dont really like that - especially during the date, secondly, You are not scoring with that. And finally, if we can dictate the rules and pace and everything - trust me, we are going to take full control and You guys wont even realise that . Besides, that will quickly get You into the "friends" category - which is nice for us, but not very nice for You, because You are sort of hooked up, but at the same time nothing is going to happen - unless we decide so (but we would not ).
And the most important thing (and You were asking about kisses) - at the end of the date, depending how it went, You might want to try and go for stealing a little kiss - but You have to be very careful and trust Your instincts here (You do have instincts, dont You? I am sure You do ). So, maybe, dont do this. Or maybe... You will never know until You try anyway . Go for the cheek and "maybe" You might get a bit more. Maybe not .
I wish You luck and enjoy Your date

OMG, I just re-read my post and the amount of smileys is a bit worrying...

Quote from: Joey. on September 25, 2013, 01:33:51 PM
I'm so embarrassed to write this post, but I'm going to write it anyway, because I'm sure many of my brothers here have experienced something similar. I just started college/university/whatever you want to call it. I am full time as male but pre everything. Everyone treats me as a guy and calls me the right pronouns (apart from one girl one time but I haven't seen her since) so it's going ok in that sense. I was out with a girl today and a woman said to us 'thanks ladies'. My stomach sank and as we walked away the girl I was with said 'she just said thanks ladies didn't she?' I panicked and said 'yeah I get that a lot' and she said 'really?' and I said 'yeah it gets quite annoying, I'm a dude.' and that was that. I didn't know what else to say, but she didn't pick up on it or say anything else. I don't know if I handled it ok or not.

Anyway, that girl I was with is really nice and I'd like to get to know her more, but I don't want to come on too strong or anything, in case she recognises that I'm trans and doesn't want to know me. She's added me on facebook and we talk quite frequently. 9 times out of 10 she messages me first. I don't want to message her first in case it's too full on or anything. Also, I'm 18 but I've never kissed a girl, or anyone for that matter. If things do happen with anyone here, I don't want to be rubbish at it and put them off. Is there a right way to do it? How do you ask a girl out on a date? Also, I know college/university is a time where people might get a bit personal with one another, and this feels very difficult for me. How do you disclose to someone that you're trans before anything happens? I'm still a virgin and I have absolutely no intention of doing anything sexual with any girl that I've just met, but say someone does come along, how do I work with that?

Sorry, it's just been on my mind lately and I don't exactly know what to do. It's all new to me. And another thing, because I've had to hide liking girls for years, I'm finding it hard to say I like girls and show an interest because I've had to hide it so long. In a way it still feels different, even though it's the 'norm' for guys to like girls. (I don't want to cause offence by that statement to anybody who is gay, lesbian or bisexual. I'm just going by the basis of today's society that they expect everyone to be straight) It's like I'm still hiding it, even though I don't have to anymore. Is this a common thing to feel?

Some advice from your elder. lol.

With how to handle the "ladies" comment. If it is in your personaity to joke, that is how I would have handled it. I probably would have crossed my legs and and said in a high-pitched voice someting like "I'm a pretty lady, let's get our nails done together" or something silly like that. Humor diffused so much.

As far as kissing, I think that's a tough one, but someting I have noticed is that if you are not sure what to do, you an just mimick what she does. So do to her what she does to you (kissing wise) Also, while you are kissing (as long as you know it's okay to go a bit further) I have found that alot of girls like to be held close and tight when they are kissed. Obvioulsy there is no set fast rule blah blah.

As far as telling her, I think you should play it by ear. If you think that something is going to happen further than kissing, you might just give her a heads up by telling her that your anatomy is different. Again you could mention it casually or make a joke about it. You could even bring it up like everyone knows. Maybe if the topic of gay rights comes up, you could make some sort of segue (god that's a weird word to spell) by saying "Well considering my anatomy, I certainly support anyone's right to love another person" . Or something.

Thank you both very much for the advice. It's good to know what to do for any future relationships. Seems like honesty is the best way and kissing comes naturally. I have no gut instincts haha. I'm so nervous and I don't even like anyone at the moment. It's scary, I wish I did it when I was younger, but now I accept myself other people can start to accept me. Thanks for such a detailed response Emily, I was reading it with a smile on my face. I'm excited yet so nervous because it's all new for me. Thank you too Chuck, the humour seems like a good idea next time somebody says something, I never thought of that. I like hearing new ways of dealing with things. Thanks a lot everyone.

kissing is fun with the right person... it's not really something you can explain how to do, much easier to learn by actually doing it. mimicking the other person is a good way to learn. if you're still uncertain, try exploring the inside of her mouth without being too invasive, see how she reacts, respond to that. girls are tasty... but be careful not to bite or suck on anything too hard unless she likes it (talking about the mouth here, though it would be the same for any part of her body). communication is the most important factor here, kissing is a way to get to know each other. there is no one right way to do it, every person is different and you'll have to adjust to the person you're doing it with.

flower on a date sounds really creepy unless it's when you're getting closer to each other (maybe i just hate it when guys try to do that to me. i'm not that kind of woman, seriously). dating starting as friends is a little different than dating where the first or second meeting happens because of an expressed mutual interest in dating. kind of. a date can be to have some coffee or tea together, eat out, go to some event, cinema, walk in the park, zoo/museum/whatever. things you'd like to do with someone you like to be with. try to pay for her or buy her a small gift, it's a good way to show interest (don't insist too much though, feminists wouldn't like that). stay away from anything expensive though, that would be coming on too strong.

the only place i'd want something to happen, even kissing, is at home. doesn't matter whether it's mine or theirs. dinner, movie, games, homework, other common interest are things i could invite someone over for. they say a gentleman is someone who invites a young woman to see his stamp collection and then shows her his stamp collection. that's probably what you should try to do (not the stamps but the other part), in addition to expressing your interest (not by suddenly pushing her down).

some girls want things to happens fast, other girls need to establish a friendship before anything happens. it's impossible to know how many dates you should have before kissing, or confessing your odd anatomy, or taking it further. you'll have to trust your instinct on this.

After all my anticipation for kissing, it turns out that it is entirely different with each person. Lol. Everyone moves their mouth differently, and all the women I've kissed, it took some...let's say adjustment time and practice. Which isn't a bad thing and no one ever stopped kissing me just because I didn't instinctively know exactly how to do it their way.