I'm a little nervous posting this... but here goes!

http://snd.sc/1dHIoi9

Me singing & playing Danny Boy. I sound too male - don't know how to fix it... but I haven't tried yet.
I'll have spoken voice stuff soon!

Ya'all don't want me to sing, I sound like a 12 year old girl.

Well I'll post me singing in my male voice. I have a high singing voice, but while I can speak in a female voice, I haven't quite learned how to sing in a female voice yet. I can a little but it's limited.    I guess i have to stop singing in my lower range. I'm trying to get the tone better though.

This is several years old now. (all the voices and instruments are me)

https://soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon/sweet-dreams

Now I have a question for anyone who was a singer and then had voice surgery; could you sing afterwards? And how long did it take to get your control back?

I'm doing voice training to change my speaking voice, and I have a pretty versatile voice, and like to do cartoon voices and Elmo and stuff, so that's working fairly well. But I'm wondering if surgery would be better, but then wondering if I will still be able to sing. I'd like to have a more feminine singing voice, and have it a little higher.

From the horror stories I've heard regarding voice surgery... I'm not going anywhere near it. I'll be happy to be a low alto / high tenor woman... I'm working on raising my pitch (singing) and worried about damage even w/ that.

Speaking voice is easy, but doesn't feel natural (I suppose that takes a while). I'm working on it, though I think my wife hates it... I do it reading books to the kids

I know two women that had surgery. They didn't have any problems and have nice voices.

Quote from: Miss Bungle on October 01, 2013, 11:14:20 PM
You won't damage your throat as long as you take it easy and pay attention to any signs that you are straining yourself.

I have a decent voice but I'm not going to sing and post it.

It's mostly my jaw that starts to hurt after a while! It's been too long since I've done any formal singing.

I'd love to hear it, Portia!

Well then Jennygirl should post here once she gets back to singing after her voice surgery She seems confident that it will work out.
I dont sing, never could really. I might sing along sometimes but never solo, its too bad

Quote from: anjaq on October 02, 2013, 04:41:25 AM
Well then Jennygirl should post here once she gets back to singing after her voice surgery She seems confident that it will work out.
I dont sing, never could really. I might sing along sometimes but never solo, its too bad

Yes I already talked to her. She's starting to be able to sing. I'd love to hear her when she gets her control back.

The thing with the jaw hurting is you need to relax more. I did some songwriting back in the early 90s with a very well known vocal trainer and that was one of the things she showed me. We get tense when we try to sing high, and you need to relax.

My limited time with doing feminine voice training is making me think I'll never have a great singing voice that way because I can already sing high, but the tone is wrong. Plus I won't be able to use my low range.

Jennygirl's speaking voice is amazing and I'd like that.

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 02, 2013, 07:23:06 AM
The thing with the jaw hurting is you need to relax more. I did some songwriting back in the early 90s with a very well known vocal trainer and that was one of the things she showed me. We get tense when we try to sing high, and you need to relax.

My limited time with doing feminine voice training is making me think I'll never have a great singing voice that way because I can already sing high, but the tone is wrong. Plus I won't be able to use my low range.

I've been working on relaxing more. I sound more feminine at high pitch when I do. I sing to "Demons" by Imagine Dragons (a nice high pitched male group -- so I can easily sound more feminine than them) and "Royals" by Lorde (a beautiful low alto / high tenor young woman). I can now get through both songs and my jaw only starts feeling tense in the second song.

Practice, practice, practice... doubt I'll make it to either Carnegie or Wembley, though! Send me tickets when any of you get there ♥

Women are never tenors, they are contraltos.

But yes, relaxing is the key, and it's not easy. Especially if you are playing an instrument at the same time. I'll start to tense up, and not only does my throat start to tighten up, but I'll press my fingers so hard on my bass strings that my fingertips go numb! I'm performing at least every weekend so I need to focus on relaxing and not injuring myself!

I'd hate to lose my singing ability, but if it came down to that, so be it. I'm an accompanist more than a solo artist anyway. I can can concentrate more on playing then.

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 02, 2013, 07:23:06 AM
Yes I already talked to her. She's starting to be able to sing. I'd love to hear her when she gets her control back.
[...]
My limited time with doing feminine voice training is making me think I'll never have a great singing voice that way because I can already sing high, but the tone is wrong. Plus I won't be able to use my low range.
Jennygirl's speaking voice is amazing and I'd like that.

Oh indeed - I cried literally when I heard her recordings of that rainbow passage. Good to hear she is starting to sing. I look forward to that.

For me, singing is not that important now - but I wish I could - one of the things that people always told me when I even remotely considered voice surgery was that I would not be able to sing and tha tI would not have the pitch range I have now. But really - if I dont sing now anyways and do actually not want to use the lower part of my pitch range anyways (I mean for what purpose other than really making voices or somehow really become a professional actress or singer would I use that) - I now do not see much point in them anymore. If anything maybe I would expect that I actually dare more to sing if I had such a surgery and would not be afraid to accidentially drop pitch while singing - Confidence seems to be a major thing about it. Jenny and I think Abby as well said that this was the biggest thing about their procedures - they just gained a lot of confidence with it.

But I dont want to contribute to derailing the topic
Lets hear some more songs

There's no reason why you won't be able to sing, but it will take work as you have to relearn how to sing with a new voice. Your new range will be higher, so you lose some in the low range but gain in the upper range.

Of the two trans women that I know who have had voice surgery (and are both musicians) one never could sing, so she says nothing has changed. The other did sing and does sing now, but she said it was hard and took about two years. Her singing is at about the same level as it was skill wise, but now she sounds like a girl, as she should.

I'd be happy with that. As I said I'm mostly an instrumentalist. And I'm very good at it. I work with other singers even when I write the songs, but I do enjoy singing.

But I guess there are things we give up and things we gain when transitioning.

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 02, 2013, 08:51:53 AM
Women are never tenors, they are contraltos.

Ah... my experience is from High School (where we had Female Tenors in All State) and College (where everyone was cis-voiced )

That's odd...

It works like this:

Soprano: C4 – C6
Mezzo-soprano: A3 – A5
Contralto: F3 – F5
Tenor: C3 – C5
Baritone: F2 – F4 (G#2 to G#4 in operatic music)
Bass: E2 – E4

Wikipedia states on tenors:

QuoteA tenor is a type of classical male singing voice whose vocal range is one of the highest of the male voice types. The tenor's vocal range (in choral music) lies between C3, the C one octave below middle C, and (A4), the A above middle C. In solo work, this range extends up to (C5), or "tenor high C". The low extreme for tenors is roughly A♭2 (two A♭s below middle C). At the highest extreme, some tenors can sing up to two Fs above middle C (F5).

For Contralto:

QuoteA contralto is a type of classical female singing voice whose vocal range is the lowest female voice type, with the lowest tessitura. The contralto's vocal range falls between tenor and mezzo-soprano; typically between the F below middle C (F3 in scientific pitch notation) to the second G above middle C (G5), although at the extremes some voices can reach the E below middle C (E3) or the second B♭ above middle C (B♭5).

The most common woman's voice singing voice is in the mezzo-soprano range, as contralto is a deep woman's voice sounding more like a male. I work with a singer like that. Everyone who hears here says "is that a guy singing?"  She doesn't sound like a guy to me, but she has a husky voice.

http://your-personal-singing-guide.com/vocal-range.html

I don't have my music or transposition in front of me, but I think that high note I barely hit is A5. (I think I transposed from C to F, and the high note is an E5 when sung in C4).

I guess if I keep working my range will just barely cover Mezzo-soprano...

What is "Alto?" In four part voice it was Sop., Alto, Tenor, Bass. In Eight (?) part choral we just used I (high) and II (low) for each of the four-part voices.

Alto and contralto are the same thing. Usually it's used for instruments, like an alto sax.

QuoteThe musical term alto, meaning "high" in Italian (Latin: altus), refers to the second highest part of a contrapuntal musical texture and is also applied to its associated vocal range, especially in choral music. More rarely it describes the highest male solo voice type (usually designated countertenor), and it is also the root word of contralto, the lowest standard female voice type. When designating instruments, "alto" likewise can refer either to the corresponding vocal range (alto flute and alto trombone, respectively the lowest and highest common instruments of their families) or to musical role (alto recorder and alto clarinet).

QuoteIn choral music for mixed voices, "alto" describes the lowest part commonly sung by women. The explanation for the anomaly of this name is to be found not in the use of adult falsettists in choirs of men and boys but further back in innovations in composition during the mid-15th century. Before this time it was usual to write a melodic cantus or superius against a tenor (from Latin tenere, to hold) or 'held' part, to which might be added a contratenor, which was in counterpoint with (in other words, against = contra) the tenor. The composers of Ockeghem's generation wrote two contratenor parts and designated them as contratenor altus and contratenor bassus; they were respectively higher and lower than the tenor part. From these derive both the modern terms "alto" (and contralto) and "bass".

To sing high, you don't need to sing in falsetto. Falsetto is breathy, lacks vocal chord closure (which produces more resonance) and can actually sound more male. I tend to sing either in mixed voice, mixing the softer head voice (which some people call 'falsetto', which I guess is where confusion comes from) from higher notes with the strength of chest voice. I find that mixed voice tends to be the most difficult to master. I can hit notes in mixed voice easily now, and hold notes for ages, but it can be difficult optimising the sound and doing things with it like adding vibratto (which I find much easier in pure head or chest voice).

The way I see it, most of us won't be able to sing as high as genetic women or sound exactly the same as a 100% passable female singing voice (whatever that is, anyway) - but who cares? I think creating a unique, perhaps more androgynous sound is far more interesting, and even many great non trans singers have masculine voices - Nina Simone, Zarah Leander, Misora Hibari to name a few. That's generally the approach I use when singing - if people aren't quite sure if it's a male or female voice they're hearing, I'm happy! That is why I have not undergone voice surgery.

Here are two of my songs:

Quote from: Assoluta on October 13, 2013, 12:49:29 PM
To sing high, you don't need to sing in falsetto. Falsetto is breathy, lacks vocal chord closure (which produces more resonance) and can actually sound more male. I tend to sing either in mixed voice, mixing the softer head voice (which some people call 'falsetto', which I guess is where confusion comes from) from higher notes with the strength of chest voice. I find that mixed voice tends to be the most difficult to master. I can hit notes in mixed voice easily now, and hold notes for ages, but it can be difficult optimising the sound and doing things with it like adding vibratto (which I find much easier in pure head or chest voice).

You have a lovely voice! In the first song your voice is similar to my mixed voice in my middle range. i agree with your observations. My falsetto break is very high, so it's not very useful. I have a pretty high range, but it sounds like a guy singing high (think Devo or Smashing Pumpkins). I'd like to get it more like yours.

I guess you can hear my male bass first. I'll try a higher feminine voice later.
Well, rather, I have to record them first, and I don't want my roommate going "wtf is going on?" so I'm going to save it for tomorrow. I'll post them when I have them ready, OK?

Quote from: Willow on October 13, 2013, 10:13:15 PM
I guess you can hear my male bass first. I'll try a higher feminine voice later.
Well, rather, I have to record them first, and I don't want my roommate going "wtf is going on?" so I'm going to save it for tomorrow. I'll post them when I have them ready, OK?

You sounded totally female in both. I also enjoyed the songs. I try to get a tone like you first clip, but I need to work on it more. The song I posted earlier was my straight male singing voice, though I can sing deeper, like that 1980s new wave crooning voice.

I only recently started doing voice training for my speaking voice, and to be honest have been so busy I haven't had time to work on it everyday. Plus my 22 year old son lives with me, and i have not yet broke the news to him, so he'd wonder why I'm talking like that! Although he should be used to me talking in different voices by now. I tried a few preliminary tries at singing in a more female tone, but as you said, doing a breathy mixed voice is hard! I need to work on it more to get some power. I might never regain my upper range due to the tonality. But you did really great on that second song.

Eventually if I can't sing well via voice training, I might opt for vocal surgery and then relearn how to sing. :/

I'd love to hear more recordings if you get the time.