Quote from: Keira on July 15, 2007, 04:42:55 PM

Yet right in front of my home I get treated with homophobic slurs
and sometimes worse, the treat of physical assault....

The bastion of hate is just in front of my
window; they know about my past and somehow, that attacks their manhood.

Yesterday, somebody yelled in a very very angry "I'll f*** you up mother->-bleeped-<-er!!!! Not sure if it was just to frighten me, of something else, but I am very worried!!!! Not sure what to do, except move. The person that said that I don't think lived a the "bastion", there are many "evil friends" hanging out in front of that place, all with the same homophobic/transphobic agenda it seems...

Keira, Since I joined this forum you have always replied with really helpful comments to my posts and  I have come to count you you as a trusted source of advice. Therefore although I will almost certainly never know you personally I have been very concerned for you since you first posted about the "yobbos" as we call them here in Britain who have been making your life difficult. Worried that something dreadful could happen and I'd hate that.  The problem is that if you report them to the police that could even make it worse, because they or their friends might try and extract revenge.
From what I have seen (and heard!) of you, everything about you says "girl" and I am sure that if you could afford to move to an area where nobody knows of you, you could easily go "stealth". I know it seems like running away from the problem, but if it was me I'd be out of there.
Your experiences are just a symptom of the hate and contempt that unfortunately still exists, even in the 21st century. Interesting to think that whilst tolerance for minorities is supposedly on the way up, so society is at the same time getting more violent.
I do hope that you will find an answer to this problem and will continue to think of you. I wish so much there was something I could do to help.
Kindest regards, Louise

Quote from: Jessica on July 16, 2007, 10:53:13 AM
Rhonda, there was no offence taken.

I'm just describing me and how I feel personally.

Maybe it is conditioned, I don't know.
I do know that I can't resolve it on my own though.

For me the shame will be there until scientific proof says, "It's not your fault, You aren't crazy, You are going to be okay, it's caused by XYZ and you are perfectly justified in transitioning." ... or something like that.

Kate said a long time ago, "It's like I need someone to give me permission to transition"
I so strongly associate with that.

I can't do it on my own, there are too many unknowns, to many uncertainties.
It's not that I don't know who I am.
It's that I don't know WHY I am.

I know, honey. 

It's just that I hate seeing someone like you suffer from what I know is misplaced and inappropriate guilt.

It's like, mankind [seemingly generally] is very good at inflicting or rather inducing guilt in 'his' fellow man, but is slow or reticent about making the necessary effort to try to understand what others are having to deal with or suffer through.

That touches both a personal nerve and that of principle. 

Quote from: Jessica on July 16, 2007, 10:53:13 AM
Kate said a long time ago, "It's like I need someone to give me permission to transition"

And it's something I knew I needed to work through and get past.

IMHO, transitioning must be done while accepting absolute personal responsibility for the "decision," completely independent of ANY external justifications whatsoever. Otherwise, you're just asking for trouble later when those "proofs" are called into question.

~Kate~

Though I am transgender and a ->-bleeped-<-, I have always felt a kinship with transsexuals. Maybe it's because as a minority member of society I understand what TG's go through. I know what it is to feel marginalized, oppressed, made to feel insignificant, and so forth.

I never felt shame or guilt when I came out to myself as a TG and TV. I actually felt completed and liberated. I told my wife, too. Possibly sometime in the future I may tell friends and family.  I am quite comfortable being out in the world wearing women's clothing. I am happy with who I am.

I want to enjoy life and see others do the same. I have no control over what others think or say about me. My advice is to accept yourself, profit from your mistakes, then move on.

Gennee  

Quote from: Kate on July 16, 2007, 12:54:39 PM

Quote from: Jessica on July 16, 2007, 10:53:13 AM
Kate said a long time ago, "It's like I need someone to give me permission to transition"

And it's something I knew I needed to work through and get past.

IMHO, transitioning must be done while accepting absolute personal responsibility for the "decision," completely independent of ANY external justifications whatsoever. Otherwise, you're just asking for trouble later when those "proofs" are called into question.

~Kate~

Well stated, indeed.

Quote from: Jessica on July 16, 2007, 10:53:13 AM
For me the shame will be there until scientific proof says, "It's not your fault, You aren't crazy, You are going to be okay, it's caused by XYZ and you are perfectly justified in transitioning." ... or something like that.

Jessica.........

I'm so sorry for your emotional pain.  I don't know if this will be of any comfort to you, but here goes.

First, I will tell you my educational degrees are in life sciences, not that it makes my opinions any stronger or better than others.  But there are some basics of life science, mathmatics, physics, chemistry, and even spirituality that seem to me to always hold true.  First, if you look at any population, you will find diversity.  It is the most necessary element of species survival.  If it were not for diversity, and its effect on speciation and population survival, we would not be here wondering if we're crazy.  There is diversity everywhere you look.  There are differences in size, intelligence, skin color, structure, and sexuality among people, and other animals.  Diversity on all levels is seen in all living things where there is a population of more than one.  Diversity starts at the number 2, be it a human, a bird, a fish, a tree, a flower, a star, a number, a .....well, you get the point. Without this diversity, the universe as we understand it, would not evolve, but remain in a dangerous state of stasis.

You, dear, are on a scale of gender identity diversity that is just as true and sure as a scale of music, with infinite gradations of pitch. You are on a scale of physical attributes that makes one male look a tiny less male than some other, or more male.  There are people so close to the middle of the curve, that we all find it virtually impossible to decide, male, or female?  There are many people in the global population that have a more pronounced gender-specific area of the brain than others, areas that are of a size that  are typically found only in women.  In men, this area is smaller.  But there are many men, who's brain looks female using this criteria.  Likewise, there are many women, whose brain has the same area diminished, so much so, that it looks like the x-ray of a male brain, yet it resides in a female body.

These areas develop, or do not develop, at critical times in the womb, by timed hormonal influxes.  If the timing is wrong (and it will be much of the time, according to statistical diversity), the brain will  not exactly match the gender of the body in which it resides.  When that happens, the individual will feel that he or she is "wrong", or oddly mismatched.  And they feel this is wrong.  So much so, that they feel great shame in not being "just like everyone else". 

Have you ever wondered just what it is that "everyone else" thinks about, quietly in their own diversly patterned brains?  Maybe, they think things about themselves that are so awful, they refuse to accept them.  Maybe, "everyone else" is not as honest with themselves as you are, Jessica.  You should  be proud not only of your difference from "everyone else", but of your courage and honesty with yourself to look at it, square in the mirror.

Are you crazy Jessica? 
Only if you think you are.
Do you?




Hugs from a transwoman,

Bev (not crazy)


P.S.   There are many medical sites on the internet that will show you what I'm talking about.  I left out lots and lots of detail and medical jargon.

Quote from: Kate on July 15, 2007, 03:38:45 PM

I tried to "educate" when I came out at work.  My original speech explained what I was and wasn't........

..........."Oh by the way, I'm going by the name Kate now, doin' the whole sex change thing and all."[/i] And without exception everyone has said, "Good for you Kate. So, do you think it's going to rain?" And that's the end of it.

.........I don't think society is nearly as intolerant as we fear.

........."the bigger a deal you make of this, the bigger a deal they'll think it is."[/i]

~Kate~

Kate, I have a tendency to over-educate, and am finding that people don't want all that DETAIL.  Apparently, I'm taking up valuable time with extraneous detail, and yes, they want to know how it affects them, not me as much.

Like children, the bigger a deal you make of something, the bigger a deal it becomes.

It's not a matter of society not being ready, it's more about self absorbed individuals caring about themselves first, and foremost, and what benefits them, or makes them happy.  You, me, us......we all come second, and as long as what they consider embarrassing, odd behaviors do not impinge upon their lives, what do they care?  *shrug*.


my two cents worth

Bev

Last night I met a new employee at a wig store, and we got into a nice conversation about my transgenderness. During the time, I expresed no shame on telling her about myself.

Gina 

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 15, 2007, 05:18:58 PM


And in the strictest sense I am not a woman, I am a transwoman, totally and completely.  I am different from a woman in many ways, not just physically.  There are so many things women experience in their lifetime I will never experience just as there are so many things in my life I will experience as a transwoman that no woman will ever experience.  Neither is better, but they are separate and they are different.  When women get together to talk they talk about life experiences only women know.  When I want to have a talk like that I will always go to a transwoman.  No one else will understand.

Ow. Your words cut like a knife that was sharpened and honed to a serrated heart wrenching bowel opener. Your words hurt deeply because way down in the pit of my stomach, I know you are right. And it was those words "I am not a woman, I won't ever be a real woman, nor will I ever really relate to them on that deepest of personal levels because I will never have a period or bear a child", that stopped me over and over from transitioning.

I guess being a transwoman will be better than being a man. There are genetic women that have not had their periods and many who do have them would do just about anything to stop from having them as well. Also there are many that have never had a child, cannot bear children, or just would never want to go through that and have children. Is the main difference in the fact that they can and we cannot? I suppose it comes down to what you really want. I started to look at it like getting all the benefits without having to go through the messy parts. But you are right Julie. We won't be able to relate on that personal scale of womanhood. There are other things you can relate to though, and the topic almost always switches to something else. We are unique and have insight to things they will never be able to relate to so I guess it kind of evens out. In the end, I do not think you are less of a woman, just different.

Quote from: Lori on July 17, 2007, 07:06:48 AM
Ow. You words cut like a knife that was sharpened and honed to a serrated heart wrenching bowel opener. Your words hurt deeply because way down in the pit of my stomach, I know you are right. And it was those words "I am not a woman, I won't ever be a real woman, nor will I ever really relate to them on that deepest of personal levels because I will never have a period or bear a child", that stopped me over and over from transitioning.

Yep, that is about the size of it. An it is that that stopped me just shy of 20 odd years ago. ... Oh well. We do the best we can with what we have in the situation we find ourselves in. It just so happens that we get stuck in the middle as for as proper function goes; the best we can get is an approximation. ... I think that our best path is to realize this and to come to grips with it. Transition IS better than the hell of pretending to be a man. (An if you are M2F you are NOT a Man, pretending to be such causes only pain.) ... The only real option we have is to go ahead and be ..... whatever it is we end up being; some mutilated hybrid, externally pretty internally a blooming mess. No, I DO NOT LIKE this process, but in the same I head towards it because I perceive no other alternative, no choice. No, in this life I will never be a natal female, if absolutely nothing else in that the years lost. My childhood has come and gone, Oh well. Pick up the pieces, sop up the milk and carry on with life.


An it is easier said than done, but what choice have we?

I do not want this, I really don't. But in the same I am a female regardless of what I want and what others perceive to pretend otherwise caused me great pain in life and was MASSIVELY shortening my life expectancy. This transitional mess IS better than what was, but no this is certainly not any kind of promised land.

Quote from: Winston Churchill
If you're going through hell, keep going.

Quote from: Lori on July 17, 2007, 07:06:48 AM
In the end, I do not think you are less of a woman, just different.

In the end I think that is it in a nutshell, because, simply there is more to us than the physical and the experiences. We still ARE female even if not everything aligns and is apparent as such.

Tis a shame, I suppose, that we at large do not fit into their pretty little boxes and make them think a little bit on their own.

My biggest enemy is procrastination. Fear, guilt have also been my enemy. Not so much guilt, but literal fear of the unknown. Fear of regret is a close second, but guilt, I don't know. My choice to live leaves me with little of it, sure I am guilty of many things but the biggest is procrastination and I don't think it is about fear. I've had a bad tooth for about six months now. I have I gone to the dentist yet? I think not, but I'm not afraid of the dentist nor the bills that I will incur.

As for regrets, I look far to the past and there are a ton of them. I think I was more trouble when I was still Gregg. The biggest are spending 7 tears at Cornell getting a 4 year degree, a drunk driving ticket etc.

Looking at bad pictures of me with this dead animal on my head from back in the 80's, that makes me worry, but back then I was content. Now? Ugh. Those things kill me.

Yes I fear the people that that fear the unknown and what they don't understand. My biggest fear is death. I grew up going to Church but still, my beliefs or the lack of just make it that way.I can accept everything else pretty much with the exception of the loss of a loved one. I guess in the end everyone has a primal fear and some act on that fear in a negative way. Some fears can be beaten, some cannot.

I can't forget my past nor forgive my mis-deeds, but its now. Now is the most precious time for it will never come again. I will live for "now" and I'll be alright. I gotta live for today and tomorrow.

Most of the time comes down to fear of the unknown, and it may not seem like it but it probably is and I hate that.

Quote from: Lori on July 17, 2007, 07:06:48 AM

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 15, 2007, 05:18:58 PM


And in the strictest sense I am not a woman, I am a transwoman, totally and completely.  I am different from a woman in many ways, not just physically.  There are so many things women experience in their lifetime I will never experience just as there are so many things in my life I will experience as a transwoman that no woman will ever experience.  Neither is better, but they are separate and they are different.  When women get together to talk they talk about life experiences only women know.  When I want to have a talk like that I will always go to a transwoman.  No one else will understand.

Ow. Your words cut like a knife that was sharpened and honed to a serrated heart wrenching bowel opener. Your words hurt deeply because way down in the pit of my stomach, I know you are right. And it was those words "I am not a woman, I won't ever be a real woman, nor will I ever really relate to them on that deepest of personal levels because I will never have a period or bear a child", that stopped me over and over from transitioning.

I guess being a transwoman will be better than being a man. There are genetic women that have not had their periods and many who do have them would do just about anything to stop from having them as well. Also there are many that have never had a child, cannot bear children, or just would never want to go through that and have children. Is the main difference in the fact that they can and we cannot? I suppose it comes down to what you really want. I started to look at it like getting all the benefits without having to go through the messy parts. But you are right Julie. We won't be able to relate on that personal scale of womanhood. There are other things you can relate to though, and the topic almost always switches to something else. We are unique and have insight to things they will never be able to relate to so I guess it kind of evens out. In the end, I do not think you are less of a woman, just different.

Like the proverbial 'salt in the [very deep] wound'.

That stung like hell. 

Quote from: Kate on July 15, 2007, 03:38:45 PM
I think that's the key. I've found that people in general really don't want to be "educated." They're far more worried about their mortgage and cheating husbands than the basics of transgender theory. There's a catch-22 that the more you explain to people, the more it sounds like you're apologizing, the more it begins to look like it's something you *should* explain. Thou doth protest to much...

I tried to "educate" when I came out at work. I talked with 30ish employees, one at a time, to explain my situation. My original speech explained what I was and wasn't, how long I've felt this way, etc. But it quickly became apparent that people really didn't care about all that. They just wanted to know what they needed to know ("how does this affect ME?"), ask how they could help, and to get back to their life. By the time I was done, my page-long speech had been reduced to, "Look, I'm changing my sex and changing my name to Kate, so you'll notice me looking more and more female over the coming months. So how's your laptop working?"

Same with neighbors: for the first few I met, I'd launch into this long speech about TSism, how it's not CDing, etc. But in every case you could just see their eyes glazing over... they just don't CARE about all that. Since then, whenever I bump into someone who doesn't know about Kate yet (but who knew me from before), it's usually a few minutes into talking about the weather when I slip in, "Oh by the way, I'm going by the name Kate now, doin' the whole sex change thing and all." And without exception everyone has said, "Good for you Kate. So, do you think it's going to rain?" And that's the end of it.

I went to a wedding recently where quite a few people knew me from before, but whom I hadn't told about Kate yet. Someone apparently had informed them though, as every single one of them called me Kate when they saw me. And not one person questioned it, not one person seemed uncomfortable or awkward. I *could* have taken the opportunity to "educate" everyone, but it just wasn't necessary. THEY were perfectly content and satisfied, it just wasn't a big deal, and "educating" would have just made it into one.

I don't think society is nearly as intolerant as we fear. Some areas probably, yes, but I haven't seen it personally. I DO think that shame and a persecuted "victim" mentality is rampant within the community however, which often leads to this urge to "educate and inform" as a means to apologize and justify ourselves. I realize that's not going to go over well with many of you, but I swear that the more we turn this into an "agenda," the more we organize and have "pride parades" and make our personal lives a political statement, the more society will get scared and instinctively defend itself against us.

The best education IMHO is to just go about your life, live it well, and realize that "the bigger a deal you make of this, the bigger a deal they'll think it is."

IMHO and all that,
~Kate~

Kate, in a nutshell.....you are absolutely spot on girl.....

Kate I do think you have hit the preverbal nail on the head. All of the parades and news conferences about gays, lesbians, transgender people just draw attention to all of us. It is human nature for people to look upon others that are different in a different light. Short,tall,fat,skinny,blind,cripple,retardation, and the list goes on, and on. If anyone here is waiting for society to change, I hope you are truly not holding your breath. It is not going to happen in our lifetime.

Companies have drafted new policies in the work place. Don't for one minute think they are trying to help us. It is to make them selves look good and not to have any lawsuits. Don't kid yourself. If you think otherwise just ask your hr rep if they would allow their son to date you.

I have never been ashamed of who I am and I never will be. I have been ashamed of some of my actions, but that was self induced. I have been more or less in a girls role since I was 16. I had a goal and I have stuck to it. There is absolutly no reason to be ashamed of a situation that you had no control over. Each person in our situation needs to put forth the energy to do something to better their situation and stop trying to blame society for something they had no control over.

I  do not like to draw attention to myself about being TS, TG or whatever lable you want to put on me. I am a woman and that is all there is to it. Pure and simple. I do have problems. Many of them! Most of them are mental. I know you don't have to say it. I am a dingy blond. It is so hard to go out and try to have a relationship with a straight person. I might add that it is near impossible. This has played on my mind for such a long time. I will be having surgery soon. It is not a cure all, but I think in my situation I will feel much better about myself.

Please hold your heads up high and be proud of the person you are. We all have something to contribute back to this world. Don't blame anyone especialy yourselves for what you are. If you have to get pissed off do so, but in a positive direction. Turn all of your frustrations into positive goals to set for yourself. Don't raise the bar too high at first. Take girly steps.

I myself started on my figure. I have gone from skinny to fat and back several times. Don't worry about your face too much. Make-up can take care of that. That is the one thing you can cover up. Why do think women refer to putting make-up on, as putting their face on!!!! If there is one tip I could give you it would be to work on your shape, then voice! If you look like a linebacker make it your goal to change that look. Trust me you can do it. By the way Julie you are very beautiful. linebacker you are not.

Deb