So ... a few years ago I told my daughter, who were then about 21 and 22 that I had gender issues. I somewhat understated the full extent of my dysphoria, but I thought they were old enough to know a bit about who there father really was. My wife was very upset when she found out, saying that I was just putting my emotional burdens onto them, at a time when they had enough troubles of their own to deal with. And actually, I thought and still think she was probably right. I actually had done the wrong thing.

So we both agreed not to tell the girls about the issues in my life and our marriage until the point where there was definite action being taken: specifically, if I actually was transitioning and/or we were getting divorced.

Naturally, I hoped that when the time came, I would have the chance to explain my situation, to talk about the background to it - that this isn't some passing whim, or  mid-life crisis, or a lifestyle choice: it's something I've been trying to deal with pretty much all my life, and that no matter what happens, my love for them remains constant. And I hoped that I'd have this conversation with my wife present, so that the girls would understand that even if she was very wounded by the whole thing, she accepted that I wasn't trying to hurt anyone or reject anyone - I was trying to save my life.

So, on Saturday - two days ago - she went up to London to see my oldest daughter, who's been having a hard time, work-wise and love-wise. I thought it was just a bit of mother-daughter bonding. The day goes by ... In the evening, our oldest daughter calls home. I pick up the call. She asks for Mum and when I say she's still on the train my daughter hangs up without another word.

A while later, I go to pick my wife up from the station. She walks off the train still talking to our daughter on the phone, ends the call as soon as she sees me and gets into the car as tense as a bowstring and white-lipped with anger. Then she tells me that she's just got both our daughters together and told them both that I'm transsexual and am very seriously considering transition. Then she says that the girls are devastated and they can't deal with it and I'm not to try to contact them because they're not ready to deal with me yet, until they've had time to process everything.

I guess I don't have to tell anyone how devastated I felt. To have such incredibly personal information given to two of the people I care most about in the world, without my knowledge, in deliberate breach of our agreement ... and then to be told that my daughters - who are now 25 and 24, so grown women - didn't want to heard from me. Well, I was distraught, hurt, furious, you name it.

My wife said she had to do it, just to feel there was something about this that she could control. She felt helpless, because there was nothing she could do to influence how I felt or what I was going to do. And she couldn't keep all her feelings inside any more. She had to tell someone, so she told the girls.

On Sunday, I wrote a short message to both my daughters - much shorter than this post! I said that I'd been asked not to discuss my situation with them, but I just wanted them to know that I loved them with all my heart; that if there was anything they wanted to ask me, or talk about, I was always here for them; and that, just as there was nothing they could do, or say, or be that would stop me loving them, so I hoped they could find it in their hearts, in time, to accept me for who I was.

Today I was told that this had only upset them even more. I don't know if it did or not. Neither daughter has said or written a word to me.

So that's one more nail in the coffin of my family life - the family I so desperately wanted to create, nurture and protect, having had a lousy time in my own childhood. But I guess there's one upside. By creating a situation in which everyone is in agony, I feel like my wife is actually pushing me towards the thing that she dreads most. At some level she's trying to provoke a crisis - possibly because, 100% understandably, she just can't bear any more uncertainty.

In which case, the hell with it. I've spent years not transitioning because I didn't want to hurt my family. Turns out that was a waste of time. On Wednesday I'm seeing my therapist ... and I'm getting the girlie show on the road!

Wow that's awful. I am really sorry.

You didn't do the wrong thing in telling them in the first place. It has to be shown to be natural to them, despite being unusual.

I woud not listen to your wife, she is deliberately doing things that are messing your relationship with them up.

Stay in contact with them and explain a little bit about how hard it has been and what it's all about. They will read it, even if they don't answer. If you let it get to the point where they don't receive any messages from you, then, that will be very bad indeed.

If it were me I would comunicate with them fairly regularly and be all the things that your wife will be telling them you are not. Be normal, yourself, loving and consistent. Tell them they should read something and send them a URL and tell them that you love them each time.

Really really really, from the bottom of my heart, good luck.

Hugs

Akira x

Quote from: Akira21 ♡♡♡ on October 07, 2013, 12:03:38 PM
Wow that's awful. I am really sorry.

You didn't do the wrong thing in telling them in the first place. It has to be shown to be natural to them, despite being unusual.

I woud not listen to your wife, she is deliberately doing things that are messing your relationship with them up.

Stay in contact with them and explain a little bit about how hard it has been and what it's all about. They will read it, even if they don't answer. If you let it get to the point where they don't receive any messages from you, then, that will be very bad indeed.

If it were me I would comunicate with them fairly regularly and be all the things that your wife will be telling them you are not. Be normal, yourself, loving and consistent. Tell them they should read something and send them a URL and tell them that you love them each time.

Really really really, from the bottom of my heart, good luck.

Hugs

Akira x

Thank you so much, Akira, for those kind, wise words.

hi Carlita,

I do not know the "social facilities" in England (you said London so I suppose Great Britain), but here
in Italy there are free "family mediators" who may help. Of course both parties (so you and your
daughters) should attend the meeting, but I would make this trial.

Another option could be a relative to which you have already come out and is supportive.

I wish that two grown up women do not stay into fear of not knowing who their father really is.

Probably their fear is blocking them, you should try to have a breech into that fear.

In any case, push the pedal into transition (if this is what you want). You have seen that waiting
for others are ready is a waste of time, or worse.

I think you're right, Marina. My adult daughters should be able to know the truth about their father and then decide how they want to respond. The both know that I would always accept them. I'm hoping they will do the same for me. And yes, I'm putting the transition pedal to the metal!

The move your wife made was out of anger and frustration. She's worried, embarrassed, and probably thinks that the whole of your marriage is a farce. I know that she's probably very angry but I worry in what ways that she framed her conversation with your daughters.

Give this some time and see what comes of things. Don't rush off but, if you feel that you should transition, well, your kids are adults now and it may be time for you to proceed with your own life. I would wait at least a little while before doing anything, however, as you being the one to frame the next part of the conversation would probably be beneficial as, your side of the story is just as important to them as their mother's, I'd expect, (I'm trying to make no assumptions about your family dynamic but I was in their place, I'd want to know the whole story).

All that said, you know your kids. You know their relationship with their mother and you know their expectations about yourself. They have a lot of hopes and dreams in which the version of you who wasn't transitioned played a large part, I'm sure, so you might really want to slow this down a little bit so that you can work through this, unless you really *do* want to end up causing more harm than good. If I'm reading the context right, another several months won't make that much of a difference one way or the other. Ask your therapist, look into the literature on the topic of dealing with family, and really try to work through this with an open heart and some understanding of their very genuine pains. They're not rejecting 'the real you' but holding on to their understanding and comprehension of who you are.

Put another way: do this out of love and patience rather than desperation and frustration and you'll probably have a better result. Maybe you won't but even if so, you'll know that you went about it in the best way possible. Early in transition and coming out, we are all very anxious to get the ball rolling, so to speak. It's often the patently poor mishandling of the situation on *our* parts that destroys relationships, as often as the prejudices and intolerance of others.

Just my 2¢.

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 07, 2013, 01:14:25 PM
The move your wife made was out of anger and frustration. She's worried, embarrassed, and probably thinks that the whole of your marriage is a farce. I know that she's probably very angry but I worry in what ways that she framed her conversation with your daughters.

Give this some time and see what comes of things. Don't rush off but, if you feel that you should transition, well, your kids are adults now and it may be time for you to proceed with your own life. I would wait at least a little while before doing anything, however, as you being the one to frame the next part of the conversation would probably be beneficial as, your side of the story is just as important to them as their mother's, I'd expect, (I'm trying to make no assumptions about your family dynamic but I was in their place, I'd want to know the whole story).

All that said, you know your kids. You know their relationship with their mother and you know their expectations about yourself. They have a lot of hopes and dreams in which the version of you who wasn't transitioned played a large part, I'm sure, so you might really want to slow this down a little bit so that you can work through this, unless you really *do* want to end up causing more harm than good. If I'm reading the context right, another several months won't make that much of a difference one way or the other. Ask your therapist, look into the literature on the topic of dealing with family, and really try to work through this with an open heart and some understanding of their very genuine pains. They're not rejecting 'the real you' but holding on to their understanding and comprehension of who you are.

Put another way: do this out of love and patience rather than desperation and frustration and you'll probably have a better result. Maybe you won't but even if so, you'll know that you went about it in the best way possible. Early in transition and coming out, we are all very anxious to get the ball rolling, so to speak. It's often the patently poor mishandling of the situation on *our* parts that destroys relationships, as often as the prejudices and intolerance of others.

Just my 2¢.

Well that's 2¢ very well spent! If it doesn't seem totally contradictory, I'm going to rush it AND go slow! What I mean is, I fully intend to start some of the vital, but less obtrusive aspects of transition, like beard removal, as soon as I can. But I'm not going to rush into HRT, or presenting as a woman. That's mostly because I have another kid, my teenage son to consider. But you're absolutely right, the whole family needs time to come to terms with what is, obviously, an incredibly shocking, traumatic, frightening idea - I mean, any son or daughter, at any age is going to be freaked by the thought that the father they've always seen as kind of the original man in their lives, and the basic role-model for a boy is suddenly telling them s/he's a woman.

Plus, as much as there's an inner voice screaming, 'Go faster! Go faster!' I think there's a lot to be said for a more gentle transition. It's those old baby-steps again!

I almost had a similar thing done to me... and mine would have been much less cruel had it happened.

I told my wife less than a week after coming out (see my sig)... and every time I asked her if she wanted me to tell her family she said in my own time. Telling her family would also mean telling mine - since they all talk... and one person in her family even works where I work.

A month later I came home from my therapist's and was told around 8pm I need to come out to the entire family within 24 hours or so and she was going to tell them herself. Luckily I had letters already prepared. I went to see one SIL and her SO (the guy that works with me) because they were going on vacation the next day. The rest I went to see over 6 hours the following evening.

No matter what anyone tells you, it's your right to tell people in the way you want to tell them. It should be your right to decide when - though it doesn't always work out that way.

*hug*  If I had let myself know/been honest with myself about being trans at the time of my divorce, I am *certain* my now-ex would have done something similar.  She was angry, oh, so angry, as it was.  She did nearly anything she could to destroy my image with all our mutual friends, she invaded my home, she continued her emotional and physical abuse whenever she could.  It was a horror show.

But now, three years on, she seems to have reconciled herself.  It took a lot of time and several confrontations (and I had to call the cops on her at least three times), but we are finally at a better place, which is a wonderful thing for our 11-year-old daughter.  We can now hold a pleasant conversation, work out issues, and work together toward our daughter's future. 

I haven't told her yet (I only just came out to my daughter this past weekend and I need to tell my mother next, as well as get my legal ducks in a row about custody just in case), but I believe that now, at last, she is in a more receptive state.

What I hope is happening is that your wife just needs time to adjust.  She is hurting; she no doubt let her hurt show to your daughters.  They are hurt and shocked, too, because of the manner of the delivery.  I know it doesn't help much now to hear this, but time will help.  What she did (and the manner of it) was NOT OK.  You have a right to be upset.  But she is no doubt acting from a bad place, too; she has a right to be upset as well.  That doesn't give her the right to do what she did, but I'm glad you are able to consider it on her behalf.

Just please remember it is not your fault, and that over time things *will* get better.  It can be very hard to see it in the short run, but eventually things do.

*hug*  Please be well and happy with yourself; that will make it easier for others to be happy for you and with you. 

Carlita, I was thinking...

You have probably done so already, but you should definatly make your wife aware that, in her effort to hurt you, poisoning your relationship with your children is a cup that both you and they drink from and it will hurt them as much as it hurts you. She should be helping them to feel secure, not using them as a weapon against you, and hurting them in the process.

Carlita, I have no wise words to share.  All I can say was I was incredibly moved by your post and really feel for you.  If there was anything that I could do, I would do it.  I'm soo sorry you have to go through this.  I sincerely hope that your family will heal in time.

It sure sounds like your wife went out of her way to try to hurt you as best as she can... and has been for a while now. Sorry, but at 21 your daughters are adults. It was perfectly OK for you to have an adult conversation with them. Being advised to not to ever talk to them again it because "it upset them" was just a way to manipulate them and you. "Oh... we haven't heard anything again about daddy's gender stuff" to the most likely "Do you know your father is going to whack off his willy?" "Oh poor me, and you think you have problems!" All after nearly two years of radio silence! Yeppers, a bit of a shocker when they figured it was "just a phase". Knowing how my ex responded to me I can only imagine what other imagined scenarios she may have "speculated" to your daughters about.

My wife/BFF and my marriage survived the simultaneous disasters of a job lost, long distance relationship and my crash and burn into Transland only through plenty of open and honest communication (along with gallons of tears). There was plenty of anger, resentment, feelings of betrayal, abandonment. We both put in the hard work to try to make things work. It seems that your case went a different route... bottled up anger waiting to erupt like Vesuvius.

My advice is look for a divorce lawyer after the therapist. My Spider Sense is tingling. Your wife is either looking or has one or is primed to make your life a living hell... no matter what you do next.

I hope you can rebuild what was just destroyed, but without the help of your wife it may be impossible.  It would have been nice if she gave you the oportunity to talk to your daughters first, but the damage is done and it's time to move on. 

Some of the girls on the forum may not like this, but even if it upsets your wife you may as well talk with your therapist about starting.  You had already come to the realization you had to begin hormones in some way, and it appears your wife knows it's inevitable.  But first tell your wife about your plans, you don't want to give her a reason to make your life even more difficult.

I don't know if a lawyer is needed yet, but your wife may already have talked to someone about divorce.  And I think Joanne may be right about the rest of what she said. 

Quote from: JoanneB on October 07, 2013, 07:47:02 PM
My advice is look for a divorce lawyer after the therapist. My Spider Sense is tingling. Your wife is either looking or has one or is primed to make your life a living hell... no matter what you do next.

Take care. K

Quote from: kathyk on October 07, 2013, 09:32:39 PM
I hope you can rebuild what was just destroyed, but without the help of your wife it may be impossible.  It would have been nice if she gave you the oportunity to talk to your daughters first, but the damage is done and it's time to move on. 

Some of the girls on the forum may not like this, but even if it upsets your wife you may as well talk with your therapist about starting.  You had already come to the realization you had to begin hormones in some way, and it appears your wife knows it's inevitable.  But first tell your wife about your plans, you don't want to give her a reason to make your life even more difficult.

I don't know if a lawyer is needed yet, but your wife may already have talked to someone about divorce.  And I think Joanne may be right about the rest of what she said. 
Take care. K

Well, I can see exactly why you and Joanne say that my wife is positioning herself for a divorce, and it sure as ->-bleeped-<- looks like she wanted to poison the kids against me ... or at the very least heap a whole load of pain onto them ... But she swears she doesn't want to split - though she cannot bear to live under the same roof as me if/when I transition - and that she didn't badmouth me when she spoke to the girls ...

I don't know what to think, really. All I know is, she's in terrible pain. She also has a very hard time being honest with herself about her feelings (she prefers to see herself as the victim of everyone else's troubles, rather than someone who is an active, responsible participant in her own right, with issues of her own). I'm not sure that there's any conscious plan behind her actions. I think she's just acting out, venting, lashing out at anything or everything, just to try and ease the pain ...

And to that extent, I know exactly how she feels.

PS: Thanks once again to everyone who has replied. I really value all your kind thoughts so much and it's such a help to know that there's a place where I can come - and we all can come - to work through all these issues which are so completely baffling to the outside world by communicating with people who really, really know what it's like to live with gender dysphoria.

Quote from: Carlita on October 08, 2013, 05:03:36 AM
...

And to that extent, I know exactly how she feels.

PS: Thanks once again to everyone who has replied. I really value all your kind thoughts so much and it's such a help to know that there's a place where I can come - and we all can come - to work through all these issues which are so completely baffling to the outside world by communicating with people who really, really know what it's like to live with gender dysphoria.

I'm thankful every day that there are people I can talk to. It also lightens the load our supporters need to carry! They and we need that.

And I'm right there with you. My wife has to split with me - she's made that clear. I've tried every other possible way to keep us together, even just as housemates, but I totally understand why. It's painful, but I was in denial over that for at least 6 weeks.

Aside from that, though... my wife is a victim. She's 2nd in line to the problem, after myself. It's just painful that nearly everyone else sees her as the #1 victim and treats me as deciding to do this to her. My wife is in pain over needing to sell the house (something she's trying not to do, but she'll fail). She's in pain over a 4th child she won't ever have. She has terrible social anxiety now (it was bad before, but she hid it very well - including from me to a degree).

The hardest part for us is that, as the condition carrier (and sorry if that sounds bad... it's the nicest way to put it with respect to how our families are feeling), there's nothing we can do to help. I admire my wife's strength... but she hates me right now and I'm afraid of where she'll take the divorce when we get to that point. I hope for mediation, but I also don't want to leave her and the kids struggling.

There's just nothing easy about being transgender with kids.

Quote from: kabit on October 08, 2013, 06:43:17 AM

The hardest part for us is that, as the condition carrier (and sorry if that sounds bad... it's the nicest way to put it with respect to how our families are feeling), there's nothing we can do to help. I admire my wife's strength... but she hates me right now and I'm afraid of where she'll take the divorce when we get to that point. I hope for mediation, but I also don't want to leave her and the kids struggling.

There's just nothing easy about being transgender with kids.

This.

Quote from: Carlita on October 08, 2013, 05:03:36 AM
Well, I can see exactly why you and Joanne say that my wife is positioning herself for a divorce, and it sure as ->-bleeped-<- looks like she wanted to poison the kids against me ... or at the very least heap a whole load of pain onto them ... But she swears she doesn't want to split - though she cannot bear to live under the same roof as me if/when I transition - and that she didn't badmouth me when she spoke to the girls ...

I don't know what to think, really. All I know is, she's in terrible pain. She also has a very hard time being honest with herself about her feelings (she prefers to see herself as the victim of everyone else's troubles, rather than someone who is an active, responsible participant in her own right, with issues of her own). I'm not sure that there's any conscious plan behind her actions. I think she's just acting out, venting, lashing out at anything or everything, just to try and ease the pain ...

And to that extent, I know exactly how she feels.

PS: Thanks once again to everyone who has replied. I really value all your kind thoughts so much and it's such a help to know that there's a place where I can come - and we all can come - to work through all these issues which are so completely baffling to the outside world by communicating with people who really, really know what it's like to live with gender dysphoria.

She may not be trying to cause a divorce.  It's very possible it was reactionary and she simply believed the kids should know.  It's a big change for everyone involved and maybe she needed to talk to people she could confide in.  I know it was very hard for my family members to keep it to themselves.  They felt everyone had the right to know and they needed someone else to talk to about my transition in order to cope.  However, it is also possible that she is trying to control your transition by telling your children.  She must realize that it's emotionally stressful for you and that this can create an emotional burden that may make you reconsider transitioning.   It may not be a control tactic, but it could be as well.

Quote from: learningtolive on October 08, 2013, 06:57:56 AM
She may not be trying to cause a divorce.  It's very possible it was reactionary and she simply believed the kids should know.  It's a big change for everyone involved and maybe she needed to talk to people she could confide in.  I know it was very hard for my family members to keep it to themselves.  They felt everyone had the right to know and they needed someone else to talk to about my transition in order to cope.  However, it is also possible that she is trying to control your transition by telling your children.  She must realize that it's emotionally stressful for you and that this can create an emotional burden that may make you reconsider transitioning.   It may not be a control tactic, but it could be as well.

You know, it could actually be ALL of those things, all swirling around in a great, chaotic whirlpool of emotion. I absolutely know she couldn't bear to keep everything inside her any longer, which I can quite understand. I think there may well have been an element of trying to control or impede transition.

I also fear that telling my daughters may be having unintended consequences, in terms of their reactions that she may come to regret. I don't have the facts, just what I'm sensing from things other people are telling me ..

Quote from: Carlita on October 08, 2013, 07:24:47 AM
You know, it could actually be ALL of those things, all swirling around in a great, chaotic whirlpool of emotion. I absolutely know she couldn't bear to keep everything inside her any longer, which I can quite understand. I think there may well have been an element of trying to control or impede transition.

I also fear that telling my daughters may be having unintended consequences, in terms of their reactions that she may come to regret. I don't have the facts, just what I'm sensing from things other people are telling me ..

It's difficult for them to keep inside. My wife told two people - one is a mutual friend of ours who is totally neutral and supportive to both of us. I'm happy she knows and happy she knew early. The other was one sister - who really dragged it out of her. Her family (and mine) knew something was up and one sister is good at wheedling and needling. She was also the hardest one I came out to - since she had a week or two to prepare a diatribe. On the positive side, that sister kept it to herself -- she even kept it from her SO (who works with me)! He was the "good cop" when I came out to them both... so I'm pretty happy at how it went.

My wife has also improved since I came out to her whole family. She still has a lot of difficulty, but improved...

I would definitely prepare a letter to your daughters. You say they won't speak to you, but they need to be told by you and hear your side of it. I wouldn't talk about their mother or that situation in the letter... keep it about you and them. Hopefully they'll come around!

Good luck! ♥

Quote from: Carlita on October 08, 2013, 07:24:47 AM
You know, it could actually be ALL of those things, all swirling around in a great, chaotic whirlpool of emotion. I absolutely know she couldn't bear to keep everything inside her any longer, which I can quite understand. I think there may well have been an element of trying to control or impede transition.

After reading other posts I think a lot of what you say here is highly accurate.  I tried to put myself into the position of my own wifes struggle to cope with loosing the person she lived with for 35 years.  But it's so difficult to feel how deeply our transitions effect people.  And even our most beloved partners have emotions we can never quite grasp.   

I don't think I should say or read much more about wives, 'cause I sure screwed up my marriage with bad plans and poor understanding. 

Hugs Calrlita.