Sibila,
I would like to thank you.

I have worked for years in my job and transitioned at work. People have been great.
Two guys have had problems. They avoid me and they obviously feel uncomfortable with me.

I have been feeling sorry for them as it is affecting them and their relationships with others who accept and love me, and they are begining to be ignored by their colleagues.

Your post prompted me to deal with it.

I maneuvered the situation so one of them was alone with me today and I spoke to him.

I told him that he must be proud of me for living my life and taking on a situation where I may have been the subject of ridicule. That I was so pleased that he could accept the pain that goes with me being transgender and not knowing how to tell people. How different I must be too men who could not contemplate giving up being male and living my life openly with joy and happiness.

I told him how that must be hard for him to accept and yet that he does.

He cried. He apologized.

He is a friend again.

Thank you.

Cindy

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on October 07, 2013, 02:03:07 AM
I'm sorry, me again. The part about giving up?? What's that all about girls?? We would not have this great internet where we support each other if someone had given up!! I think I need to start seminars to boost the confidence around here. Do you give up at work, NO. Do you give up your dreams, NO. Do you give up the daily grin, NO. Did you give up on your transitions, NO. So what's this give up on dating?? Are you serious?? So, let me get this right...You made the steps for transition, HRT, some did SRS, spent a lot of money, exposed your true selves to people you love, risked it all, you made it and now you don't want to date?? Why bake bread if you don't eat it. Why transition if you don't want to celebrate it. AM I GETTING THROUGH?? Sorry for the rant, but after 28 years as a paramedic/firefighter I learned not to give up on ANYTHING and can't stand to hear my sisters talking defeatist stuff. STOP worrying what everyone else says. I personally have more baggage than United Airlines and should be the most depressed person on this forum, but guess what, I let it go and you can to. I believe in each and every one of you, love each of you and want you to succeed in this world. So, DEEP BREATH and repeat after me: I am a beautiful woman. I can attain any goal I seek. I am not second class. I deserve happiness. I will not be disrespected. I will show love and strength. I will find true happiness. Now, go get what you want and deserve!!!!!!!

Fantastic post! Inspirational. Don't waste a single heartbeat dating a man that doesn't fully embrace you as a valued and loved member of his family. Anything less is soul deadening. And keep this in mind, the same thing happens in the cisgender community with interracial, gay, and interfaith couples.

Hmm ... seems to me a lot of people are underestimating the degree to which the whole concept of transsexuality disturbs people.

Of course we should be proud. Of course we should have self-esteem. And of course we should expect, and even demand to be treated with respect by the people we love and who we want to love us.

But, come on people ... this stuff is hard. It's really hard for most of us to come to terms with being transsexual. It's really hard for our families, spouses, kids to come to terms with it. It's even harder to actually act upon it. So I say, let's cut the guys some slack.

We may not like it, but in the real world, any man who 'comes out' as dating an MTF, pre or post-op is going to have to face an extension of the same prejudice we face. People are going to say he's secretly gay (and yes, that's a transphobic, homophobic double-whammy of prejudice, but that doesn't make the problem any less real). Since we can't give birth, a guy's parents - particularly his mother - are going to be upset because they know he can't have kids with one of us, so that's no grandchildren for them. He's going to get whispers behind his back from friends and workmates ...

We are asking a HUGE amount from men. So, just as we have to move forward in baby-steps, so they're entitled to the same consideration. If a man makes it plain that he's never, ever going to go public with your relationship, then, yes, he's not worth having. But if he loves you, and he's proud of you, but it's really tough for him to face the consequences of loving an MTF, then I think you should do what any loving girlfriend should do. Support the man you love. Help him through a tough time. Don't nag or bitch at him, but let him know that you understand his problems.

If that's not enough, well maybe he's not the right guy. But if, over time, he can man up, show the world how much he loves you and tell anyone who doesn't like it to go to hell, well, then he's a keeper for sure.

Quote from: Carlita on October 08, 2013, 05:22:42 AM
We may not like it, but in the real world, any man who 'comes out' as dating an MTF, pre or post-op is going to have to face an extension of the same prejudice we face.

Uhm, no. I've, as I've said, dated several guys who I told up front about being trans and they were totally non-plussed. I met the folks, they knew, etc. My current partner told her parents straight-off. She knew that they'd be a pain in the butt but it wasn't a thing to her. We've been really quite happy for a good long while (years and years now).

I see a lot of comments in here that are all about accepting the guy's needs for time and the like. My short answer is that one of my needs is for anyone that I date/->-bleeped-<-/party with/fall in love with to be enough of a confident person that they know who they are and what they want and that I'm what they want and they're not ashamed of wanting that nor are they scared of what others will think. Anyone who caves on what they want due to the potential reactions of others, family included, isn't enough of a confident individual to be with me. I've got my own ->-bleeped-<-. I don't need to babysit someone's insecurities.

If there were concerns that there would be consequences outside just the social aspect (inheritance or the like), that would probably be the only place where I'd be okay with dealing with some easing in period... but I'd have to be head over heels and pretty sure that a ring was coming down the line to put up with it.

Again, I'm all about making sure that my partner is okay and protecting their interests but, outside of crisis, I'm not going to wait for them to put on their grown-up pants and decide on what they want. So, we come back to standards. Mine are high. I'm worth it. If someone wants me, they've gotta meet them. Elsewise? GTFO.

Okay but Victoria,

For woman its easier to be with a transwoman... its the men that get they gay stigma stuff.

Quote from: Sibila on October 08, 2013, 03:21:06 PM
For woman its easier to be with a transwoman... its the men that get they gay stigma stuff.

To which I reply:

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 08, 2013, 12:02:39 PM
Uhm, no. I've, as I've said, dated several guys who I told up front about being trans and they were totally non-plussed. I met the folks, they knew, etc.

Cause... see... I like both girls and guys and have dated both as completely out, often at the same time, because that's how I roll in that regard.

*slaps forehead* Reading the whole response and not skimming is pretty important if you don't what just happened to happen.

P.S. - Only terrified little boys are worried about other people thinking that they're gay. If they have that fear, THEY'RE NOT WORTH MY TIME!

Quote from: Akira21 ♡♡♡ on October 07, 2013, 06:17:51 PM
The point is, if they want a serious relationship they can't expect to *never* tell them about you can they? So in effect its a statement that they are not serious.

This!! What Akira said, says it all.

If they were serious, they wouldn't do this. Since they do this, they can't possibly be serious, regardless of what excuses they raise.

Each of you, every single one of you, is worthy of love and appreciation. Believe in yourself. Believe in yourself such that you don't need a man but if the right man shows up that the two of you can be awesome together!



And to Cindy... you go, girl! Well done!

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 08, 2013, 04:08:19 PM
To which I reply:

Cause... see... I like both girls and guys and have dated both as completely out, often at the same time, because that's how I roll in that regard.

*slaps forehead* Reading the whole response and not skimming is pretty important if you don't what just happened to happen.

P.S. - Only terrified little boys are worried about other people thinking that they're gay. If they have that fear, THEY'RE NOT WORTH MY TIME!

You know... I do agree You have experience. At the same time, I know I'd have a hard time telling my family in their position... which doesn't mean I never would, but I'd have to work up to it. It's just how I was (not to mention I couldn't ever as a guy... because of what I was hiding for so long).

I say all the talk in the world can't help unless you know the situation. Does the trans woman know this man intimately (not talking about sex here )? Is she in the state of mind to know if he's a loser or a winner that might need a little extra help? Is the communication needed to find out good enough? (I'm also not talking about any OP or other people in this thread... just in general).

There are too many possible boyfriends out there to answer all of that...


Aside:
... and yeah, I'd like to find someone again someday. I broke one woman's heart... maybe I need to try men. And seriously... I have no idea which I prefer, lately - coming out changes things. It's not about my sexuality before I came out. Being open about one major change in your life means you open up to other changes, too. I suspect HRT will open my eyes even more.

I've dated quite a few men & some loved to take me out on the town. I loved to dress real sexy, enjoyed the man treating me like a lady with opening the car doors, etc... After a nice evening I really enjoyed my man later. He was so happy & I loved being his woman for anything he needed. And then there were some that just wanted sex & did not want to be seen in public with me??

I generally agree to just kick him out of your life & date more men. You have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince.

Quote from: Carlita on October 08, 2013, 05:22:42 AM
Hmm ... seems to me a lot of people are underestimating the degree to which the whole concept of transsexuality disturbs people.

Of course we should be proud. Of course we should have self-esteem. And of course we should expect, and even demand to be treated with respect by the people we love and who we want to love us.

But, come on people ... this stuff is hard. It's really hard for most of us to come to terms with being transsexual. It's really hard for our families, spouses, kids to come to terms with it. It's even harder to actually act upon it. So I say, let's cut the guys some slack.

We may not like it, but in the real world, any man who 'comes out' as dating an MTF, pre or post-op is going to have to face an extension of the same prejudice we face. People are going to say he's secretly gay (and yes, that's a transphobic, homophobic double-whammy of prejudice, but that doesn't make the problem any less real). Since we can't give birth, a guy's parents - particularly his mother - are going to be upset because they know he can't have kids with one of us, so that's no grandchildren for them. He's going to get whispers behind his back from friends and workmates ...

We are asking a HUGE amount from men. So, just as we have to move forward in baby-steps, so they're entitled to the same consideration. If a man makes it plain that he's never, ever going to go public with your relationship, then, yes, he's not worth having. But if he loves you, and he's proud of you, but it's really tough for him to face the consequences of loving an MTF, then I think you should do what any loving girlfriend should do. Support the man you love. Help him through a tough time. Don't nag or bitch at him, but let him know that you understand his problems.

If that's not enough, well maybe he's not the right guy. But if, over time, he can man up, show the world how much he loves you and tell anyone who doesn't like it to go to hell, well, then he's a keeper for sure.

I agree with you to a point. Yes trans-attracted men do take on some of the burden we face by association and that can be though to deal with. And I also understand they aren't prepared with that armor we have because they've never had to defend themselves against homophobia & transphobia.

With all that said I would still advise other ladies to not be fools. Many of these men will use our insecurities, fears, desperation, need for love against us. It's happened to me and many girls I know. I've seen girls put up with things they otherwise wouldn't from men who weren't worth the hassle.

There are tons of guy's who are willing to be with us who are strong and aren't cowards. I learned this many yrs ago. I met a newly trans-attracted guy who was strong and confident. The same issues that some men let effect them seemed to roll off his back. He treated me with respect, took me out on dates in the daytime unashamed, partied w/me at friends homes, held my hand in public, and basically treated me like the young woman I was. This was a man who was young like me who had just moved to my city from the deep south, who was new to living in a major city and was pretty naive to that kind of life. I would've thought he would've been more effected by jumping into things so fast, but it was just the opposite. Compared to men who have experience with transwomen it was like night and day.

After experiencing this there's no way you can go back to BS. Some may disagree but once a girl meets a guy like this it's pretty hard to settle for less.

Quote from: kabit on October 08, 2013, 04:43:43 PMI suspect HRT will open my eyes even more.

Oh baby does it ever! *giggle*

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on October 09, 2013, 04:51:26 AM
Oh baby does it ever! *giggle*

LOL I really can't wait! (And sexuality is about the lowest on my care-about list right now... but I do feel it's suddenly pretty fluid).

I never even looked at a guy till I booked passage on the "E" train. Jeesh, one dream and you are totally gone. *giggles*

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on October 09, 2013, 05:34:45 AM
I never even looked at a guy till I booked passage on the "E" train. Jeesh, one dream and you are totally gone. *giggles*

It's scary and exciting, I suppose!
With AAs coming soon... I wonder if all this curiosity will drop to nothing?

Quote from: kabit on October 09, 2013, 06:45:31 AM
It's scary and exciting, I suppose!
With AAs coming soon... I wonder if all this curiosity will drop to nothing?

Stop wondering. What will be will be. If you start to really like guys, trust me, you'll *know* like a shot in the dark.

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 08, 2013, 04:08:19 PM

Cause... see... I like both girls and guys and have dated both as completely out, often at the same time, because that's how I roll in that regard.
*slaps forehead* Reading the whole response and not skimming is pretty important if you don't what just happened to happen.

P.S. - Only terrified little boys are worried about other people thinking that they're gay. If they have that fear, THEY'RE NOT WORTH MY TIME!

Yes I read that.
Perhaps you are more beautifull and passable then me, who knows?

Quote from: Sibila on October 09, 2013, 08:12:07 AM
Yes I read that.
Perhaps you are more beautifull and passable then me, who knows?

*shrugs* The pic on the profile is actually what I look like. I'm quite passable but I'm a big girl. Not fat but, just large. 6' tall, my boobs are small, my butt is big, my waist is there but not extremely hourglass shaped, I have a little bit of a tummy because I like food, and I have legs for days due to my hobby (roller derby).

I'd imagine that the difference really lies in the fact that I've been doing this longer and have a better sense of myself as well as the fact that I have the kind of attitude that says (LOUDLY) "I'm ->-bleeped-<-ing awesome. Wanna roll with me? Be worth it or don't bother trying." I *know* I'm a pretty girl who has a fun attitude, a love for being outrageous, and a strong sense of pride in myself... which is why I don't get down with loser boys.

In short: if you think that attracting the right guys has much to do with your looks, you're thinking about it all the wrong way. Getting quality partners has everything to do with your self confidence and your knowledge of your own worth.

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 09, 2013, 08:08:29 AM
Stop wondering. What will be will be. If you start to really like guys, trust me, you'll *know* like a shot in the dark.

Thanks. I am almost expecting it... but I know it doesn't happen to everyone. It's not really wondering so much as one major change bringing about another major change. For example, I'm not very into "magic" gender changes anymore... which was filled by being transgender. I also wonder how much I liked women because I wanted what they had... but now I look at them and I look at how they wear clothes rather than the assets underneath.

I'm not anxious about it. I'm patient... and working on being more patient (by fixing the stress and frustration). I'm not particularly patient about getting HRT, but I am sticking with my timeline... (AAs in 5-6 weeks if all goes well!!!!!)

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 09, 2013, 09:04:46 AM
*shrugs* The pic on the profile is actually what I look like. I'm quite passable but I'm a big girl. Not fat but, just large. 6' tall, my boobs are small, my butt is big, my waist is there but not extremely hourglass shaped, I have a little bit of a tummy because I like food, and I have legs for days due to my hobby (roller derby).

I'd imagine that the difference really lies in the fact that I've been doing this longer and have a better sense of myself as well as the fact that I have the kind of attitude that says (LOUDLY) "I'm ->-bleeped-<-ing awesome. Wanna roll with me? Be worth it or don't bother trying." I *know* I'm a pretty girl who has a fun attitude, a love for being outrageous, and a strong sense of pride in myself... which is why I don't get down with loser boys.

In short: if you think that attracting the right guys has much to do with your looks, you're thinking about it all the wrong way. Getting quality partners has everything to do with your self confidence and your knowledge of your own worth.

You sound like an awesome person. Your outlook on life is where I'm aiming... I think you're much more outgoing than I am, but I'm not a wallflower anymore!

Thanks... I'm still confused inside, of course, but I accept what may come and am changing my psyche to be open to it (I never would have been so open before my rebirth).

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 09, 2013, 09:04:46 AM
*shrugs* The pic on the profile is actually what I look like. I'm quite passable but I'm a big girl. Not fat but, just large. 6' tall, my boobs are small, my butt is big, my waist is there but not extremely hourglass shaped, I have a little bit of a tummy because I like food, and I have legs for days due to my hobby (roller derby).

I'd imagine that the difference really lies in the fact that I've been doing this longer and have a better sense of myself as well as the fact that I have the kind of attitude that says (LOUDLY) "I'm ->-bleeped-<-ing awesome. Wanna roll with me? Be worth it or don't bother trying." I *know* I'm a pretty girl who has a fun attitude, a love for being outrageous, and a strong sense of pride in myself... which is why I don't get down with loser boys.

In short: if you think that attracting the right guys has much to do with your looks, you're thinking about it all the wrong way. Getting quality partners has everything to do with your self confidence and your knowledge of your own worth.

Thanks Victoria!
I guess I needed to hear that. I am way to insecure. I cannot deny that! And I also understand that you then meet people that leech on that insecurity and use it against you. Pff.

Thanks for telling me this straight!

That's what I'm here for.