Quote from: Willow on October 14, 2013, 06:53:53 PM
Hey Sarah.
For cell phones, I don't know about CDMA in Korea, but GSM is available everywhere. It's pretty much the global standard now.
I don't know much about the other stuff you have on there. You've found a pretty good deal on flights, less than $900 a person is pretty good for transpacific. Just curious, what airline are you going with?

I'm flying with United Airlines. I was initially wanting to go with Korean Air since I heard a lot of good stuff about them, but they were way more expensive (like $500/ticket more) so I decided I'll save the money and go United.

Quote from: abbyt89 on October 14, 2013, 07:06:02 PM
Ahh it's so close I bet you are so excited!

Yep I'm extremely excited. The time has been going both slow and fast. I can't help but keep looking at the calendar every hour of each day, so that makes it go slow. But then I'll wake up and realize that, hey, another week has gone by already!

Quote from: abbyt89 on October 14, 2013, 07:06:02 PM
For cell phones, Korea is actually one of the few countries outside of the U.S. that is CDMA. But since you're renting it doesn't really matter to you.

Oh really, they're CDMA? Is the iPhone (with AT&T) CDMA as well? Either way, like you say, I feel better just renting the phone and knowing it'll work.

Quote from: abbyt89 on October 14, 2013, 07:06:02 PM
For airport transportation, did you talk to Jesse about transportation? If your flights land/depart between 9-5pm during the week they provide transportation for free.

I'm actually arriving on a Sunday, so I have to handle the transportation to my hotel myself. I am having Yeson drive me back to the airport though when I leave, since I leave on a Wednesday.

Quote from: abbyt89 on October 14, 2013, 07:06:02 PM
With the credit card, definitely call the bank and let them know that not only will you be out of the country but that you are going to charge a large amount to your card. They an notate your account so if it comes up for fraud review they will see  the note and approve it.

As for the debit card, is it just a debit card or is it a check card connected to your checking account? Check cards have a Visa/MC logo and can be used as credit cards. If it is just a debit card, you might have trouble using it at foreign ATMs. It depends on your bank, I would definitely call them before hand and see what they say about using it at foreign ATMs. My bank's (USAA) debit-only cards don't work even at "global" ATMs, so I had to make sure that I switched over to a check card.

My debit card does have a Mastercard symbol on it and can be used as a CC. It is the card that's linked to my checking account. That makes sense about the CC, I'll make sure to call them beforehand and let them know I'll be making a large international purchase, and a lot of smaller ones probably too.

Quote from: abbyt89 on October 14, 2013, 07:06:02 PM
Your projected costs seem to be pretty realistic! My total ended up being just over $12,200.

Yeah, it seems like I'll be pretty much the same. I'm sure someone could get away with a little lower total cost if they needed to.

I was lucky with mine because I booked it less than a month in advance and I had a vacation already planned in between. So I had like 2 weeks of waiting, an awesome vacation, and then Korea!

I know how you feel now though because I have my FFS planned for 2 months from now - but it's already been almost two weeks since I planned that so it'll be here before I know it.

And yeah, it could definitely have been done cheaper. If I planned it further in advance I probably would have saved a few hundred dollars in airfare, I could also have saved $500 or so on my hotel, and the ~$600 I spent on skincare/cosmetics was obviously unnecessary. But Koreans are the best when it comes to skincare - I've been using this line of toner/moisturizers/sleeping masks with snail gel and my skin is flawless! It really makes a difference - I heal so much faster after my E3K sessions when using it.

Anyway I'm getting off topic - I'm excited for you and can't wait to hear your results!

Korean and Asiana are awesome. A little sad, but I'm a airline geek who has only flow twice (Brussels-Venice-Brussels) on an non-US airline, so I'd be OK with the extra cost myself

AT&T is GSM, but I believe, on top of CDMA, GSM is in place as well, in Korea.

Have fun, and good luck, girl

If I had to do this surgery a second time, I might actually consider taking the cash amount in USD and keeping a close eye on it overnight. They actually accept american currency at the front desk (minus conversion rate). Yet another way to save a few hundred bucks and just FYI!

Quote from: Jennygirl on October 15, 2013, 01:44:56 PM
If I had to do this surgery a second time, I might actually consider taking the cash amount in USD and keeping a close eye on it overnight. They actually accept american currency at the front desk (minus conversion rate). Yet another way to save a few hundred bucks and just FYI!

If they didn't accept American Express I'd likely be doing that, although I'd probably try using my Debit Mastercard first since I would assume that it would work (as it can be used as a credit card). It would be really hard to carry around that much cash though. I think I'd strap it to my arm or something and keep it covered just so I can have it with me at all times and not worry about someone stealing it (unless they want my arm too, lol). I couldn't imagine getting there and losing the money the day before the surgery!

By the way, Jenny/Abby, how did you girls pay for the surgery? I assume credit card, but which type, Visa, Amex, MC...? They confirmed that they do accept American Express but I can't stop wondering what I'd do if it gets declined for some reason.

I used Mastercard. I was originally going to use an Amex but I wouldn't have had the actual card with me (it was my dad's) and even though Jesse said that would be ok I wasn't positive she understood what I was asking of her.

I wouldn't worry about the card not working as long as you tell them in advance. And thankfully you pay before surgery so if some reason there is an issue you can give them a call.

Good luck!

Yeah you know now that I think of it, I wonder if you wire it to them in USD if you will avoid some of the conversion rates? I would think the wire fee to be cheaper.

You'd have to ask your bank, and I'm sure Jesse could get you the account info to wire it to. Certainly carrying a bunch of cash seems like a burden, I didn't want to do it either

Quote from: Jennygirl on October 15, 2013, 06:56:45 PM
Yeah you know now that I think of it, I wonder if you wire it to them in USD if you will avoid some of the conversion rates? I would think the wire fee to be cheaper.

You'd have to ask your bank, and I'm sure Jesse could get you the account info to wire it to. Certainly carrying a bunch of cash seems like a burden, I didn't want to do it either

I asked about wiring it and I got the information from Jessie, but I checked the fees and they were pretty steep. I can't remember what they were, but I don't think they were less than the 2.7% that American Express charges for foreign transactions. The 2.7% is only going to add an additional ~$200 anyways, plus I'm always looking for ways to get more points from my Amex as it pays for a lot of travel expenses (without having to pay any interest at all)! The surgery cost itself will be pretty much a free $100 in travel, so it's really like only being charged an extra $100.

Hey Abby/Jenny,

Do they give you any tips on what to do when you need to sneeze? I can't stop thinking about sneezing and ruining the suture! I've been trying to pay attention to sneezing lately and sometimes they come on so quickly that I can't stop it and are kind of rough that I'm wondering what it would do after the surgery. How did you handle that while you were in recovery?

Also, I can't help but be a little bit nervous after hearing about Kiwi4Eva's experience there. You both have such wonderful stories of your experiences and the results speak for themselves that I'm hoping that it's just the normal (albeit extremely unfortunate) mathematical probability at play here. Being human, there is bound to be mistakes every now and then. How they dealt with the situation was appalling, but I can't help but think that I am not in the same situation and will hopefully not have the same bad experience myself. Really, all I care about is having a voice I can call my own! I can't deny being a little bit taken aback though, but I'm seeing this through.

Quote from: SarahR on October 21, 2013, 10:32:38 PM
Hey Abby/Jenny,

Do they give you any tips on what to do when you need to sneeze? I can't stop thinking about sneezing and ruining the suture! I've been trying to pay attention to sneezing lately and sometimes they come on so quickly that I can't stop it and are kind of rough that I'm wondering what it would do after the surgery. How did you handle that while you were in recovery?

Also, I can't help but be a little bit nervous after hearing about Kiwi4Eva's experience there. You both have such wonderful stories of your experiences and the results speak for themselves that I'm hoping that it's just the normal (albeit extremely unfortunate) mathematical probability at play here. Being human, there is bound to be mistakes every now and then. How they dealt with the situation was appalling, but I can't help but think that I am not in the same situation and will hopefully not have the same bad experience myself. Really, all I care about is having a voice I can call my own! I can't deny being a little bit taken aback though, but I'm seeing this through.

They didn't mention anything about sneezing, at least not that I can recall. But I don't think sneezing alone really puts any stress on your vocal folds as long as you don't try to make any sound with it. I remember sneezing once or twice during my 7 day recovery and not feeling anything or making any noise. I could be wrong though about the stress on your vocal folds part - I would ask Jesse/Dr. Kim just to make sure.

And yeah, every surgeon no matter how good he or she is makes mistakes, it's just the infallibility of humans. But the way a surgeon and his or her staff handles those mistakes is really the key and it seems like Yeson could have done a much better job in that respect. If you don't have any issues with your teeth I wouldn't be concerned at all about the possibility of that happening to you, and there really isn't any risk concerning your voice which as you said as the most important thing.

Phew - I read that thread and it sounded really bad - The way they reacted to complications was not nice. I had a similar experience at first with my SRS. Luckily it was the team that was the bad apples and once the surgeon was back into the game, he fixed things very professionally, medically. Still it bugs me now. What if something more severe goes wrong than some knocked out dentalwork. Are they able to fix things that go wrong? If anaesthesia makes problems or if they cut something they are not supposed to? Also Jennys description of a numb tongue bothers me as well - even more than a risk of dmaging teeth (which can be fixed).  I am very sensitive to nerve damage. I guess I will at least check back with Berlin to see what they are doing but well my experience with German surgeons is not that much better than what I read there from Kiwi , so I guess it can happen always.
I think I could ignore some of the bad behaviour Kiwi described or just be mad about it but not care, as long as they get a good result and I can be confident that they know how to deal with problems.

Jenny/Abby - I found only a few recordings via Yesons homepage, yours and Abbys and Majas and some korean recordings - are there more somewhere to be found in english, so one can check more of the results? Is there some online platform, forum, mailing list of people who did that to look for information? What did you do to do your research about this procedure and this clinic?
I remember you did that and most of the reports and experiences and reviews you found were very positive and none or few were negative...? Maybe looking at that can help us, too, Esp Sarah who I can tell is nervous now, but maybe also me who is still at the start of saving money for this.
Thanks a lot.

Sarah-
Jessie told me not to sneeze, cough, laugh, yell, or whisper at all during the first 7 days when things are still healing. Dr. Kim says that it's a partial heal in the first 3 days, then a full heal after 7. She encouraged the whoosh thing if I felt like I was going to. A few times though, I just couldn't help it... Then I would have severe anxiety followed by a brief feeling of depression as if maybe I had screwed something up. Luckily, Jessie was quick to respond and tell me that everything would have been okay. I didn't have other people I could share the experience with like everyone will from now on. You probably won't experience much anxiety at all with me & Abby here to reassure you. Lucky!!!

I found that having a water bottle with me at all times to take small fast sips seemed to help a lot.

Anja-
The numb tongue is temporary, Dr. Kim said nothing about a risk of permanent numbness. I think Kiwi's issue is most likely related to the nurse staff because I honestly could not imagine Dr. Kim being mean about anything. He is very gentle with his hands and his words, and in comparison every doctor that I've met in the US seems to have an "I'm a badass surgeon" kind of attitude.. you can just tell they love being rich. Granted, it's not like I've met that many surgeons in the US but that has definitely been a common observable trait. It was obvious to me that Dr. Kim understands you are coming to him for the best possible voice- and that's exactly what he gives you. No way can I picture him being in it for the cash or freaking out about payment.

I as well wished there were more english speaking examples on their youtube, and it was a bit of a worry for me going into it. Maja's voice sounded so perfect to me though, and all the non english speaking examples sounded pretty good to me as well. I guess I took a little bit of a risk, but hearing Maja's voice was enough to give me the confidence I needed. Without her interview video, I probably never would have considered this surgery enough to actually do it. Everything is on their youtube channel, apparently it is hard for them to collect post op recordings from people. And also a lot of people do not wish to be featured on the internet in any way for privacy reasons.

As far as other research, I kept finding little blurbs here and there but it's been so long I forget where I found it. There really wasn't much, and that's also what convinced me to try to thoroughly recite my experience and recovery. There's not much information about it elsewhere yet- that I know of at least! I scoured google searches and youtube for a few months and then all of a sudden I was in Korea having the surgery

Quote from: Jennygirl on October 23, 2013, 01:58:57 AM
Anja-
The numb tongue is temporary, Dr. Kim said nothing about a risk of permanent numbness. I think Kiwi's issue is most likely related to the nurse staff because I honestly could not imagine Dr. Kim being mean about anything. [...]
I as well wished there were more english speaking examples on their youtube, and it was a bit of a worry for me going into it. [...] I guess I took a little bit of a risk, but hearing Maja's voice was enough to give me the confidence I needed. Without her interview video, I probably never would have considered this surgery enough to actually do it. Everything is on their youtube channel, apparently it is hard for them to collect post op recordings from people. [...]
As far as other research, I kept finding little blurbs here and there but it's been so long I forget where I found it. There really wasn't much, and that's also what convinced me to try to thoroughly recite my experience and recovery.

Oh wow, ok. I thought you said that there was more evidence out there. I did not know that you basically went in taking a risk by more or less going there on one fine example which is Maja. Now there are three fine examples on their promotion pages and youtube channel and that includes now you and Abby. I am a bit wary though as most info I find on Yeson in that respect is about or from either one of you three or it is promotional fom Yeson. I tend to want some more first hand and third party independent resources. Do you know how many times Yeson has done this procedure? It seems that he did not have that many patients from Europe or the US yet?

I can well imagine that people would not want to have their voices on youtube on that channel for privacy reasons, though I think it would be not so much of an issue as long there does not have to be a face attached. So I dont know what this lack of post op voice recordings in english means. Basically there is not much pre 2010 or so. I mean those examples I hear are all great but I would really like to get a better and unbiased picture there in case I would decide to aim for that procedure.

Re Kiwis experience - I guess you may be right about the nurse staff. This was my SRS experience as well. The surgeon was rather good and professional and did fix me up according to good medical standards, but the nursing staff and assistant surgeons were what caused me problems. I have come now to mostly give less about what they say unless I feel I can trust them. I feel they are just overworked and underpaid and one has to keep his own brain turned on at all times with them generally. I am very anxious about the tongue numbness though. I know that numbness ususally is not meant to be permanent in any surgery but my experience with previous ones is that people will say that it is just temporary but my body decides otherwise and gives me a permanent reminder of my procedures :\ .

Quote from: anjaq on October 23, 2013, 08:34:32 AM
Oh wow, ok. I thought you said that there was more evidence out there. I did not know that you basically went in taking a risk by more or less going there on one fine example which is Maja. Now there are three fine examples on their promotion pages and youtube channel and that includes now you and Abby. I am a bit wary though as most info I find on Yeson in that respect is about or from either one of you three or it is promotional fom Yeson. I tend to want some more first hand and third party independent resources. Do you know how many times Yeson has done this procedure? It seems that he did not have that many patients from Europe or the US yet?

I can well imagine that people would not want to have their voices on youtube on that channel for privacy reasons, though I think it would be not so much of an issue as long there does not have to be a face attached. So I dont know what this lack of post op voice recordings in english means. Basically there is not much pre 2010 or so. I mean those examples I hear are all great but I would really like to get a better and unbiased picture there in case I would decide to aim for that procedure.

Re Kiwis experience - I guess you may be right about the nurse staff. This was my SRS experience as well. The surgeon was rather good and professional and did fix me up according to good medical standards, but the nursing staff and assistant surgeons were what caused me problems. I have come now to mostly give less about what they say unless I feel I can trust them. I feel they are just overworked and underpaid and one has to keep his own brain turned on at all times with them generally. I am very anxious about the tongue numbness though. I know that numbness ususally is not meant to be permanent in any surgery but my experience with previous ones is that people will say that it is just temporary but my body decides otherwise and gives me a permanent reminder of my procedures :\ .

Hi Anjaq,

From what I understand, Yeson operated pretty much solely on Korean MTF patients until a few years ago. It wasn't until Jessie was hired that they started to bring in western patients. She also explained that with the Korean patients, it was much easier to get before and after videos. Part of the cost of surgery is a follow-up appointment within one year and since most of their patients lived in Korea, they would go there for their follow-up and do the "after" recording then. She said it has been much more difficult to get people who never come to their follow-up to record their voice and send it to them.

As far as how many times Yeson has performed  the procedure, I don't know for sure. I do know that Dr. Kim has been doing it for at least 7-8 years now though.

When I went in, it was close to 200 patients before me. They seem to have time to do about one per week, but I could be wrong.

Out of everyone, there has only been one patient requiring re-surgery because she tried to yell loudly within the first week and tore a suture... OUCH! Nobody has required a re-surgery from coughing or sneezing or anything.. They just ask you not to do that.

As far as the nurse/office staff, I had nothing but great things to say about them. Jessie was the best & nicest though and made everything gel. You're in great hands, Sarah

200 patients is quite a few. Bummer that most of them are Koreans and cannot really easily give their results and experiences to us. I found little bits of about 5 or so people out there who did that. Including Jenny and Abby and Maja. I found 2 reports on the one in Berlin and one from the other German surgeon. They were all rather brief and either said that it changed their life or they stopped reporting a week after the surgery. It is really hard to find info on this it seems, most descriptions online are about the other procedures which are more invasive. I got a possible experience from one person though who might have had that and who was a good frind of a good friend, but I dont know where she did it. She did have a no-incision VFS though and AFAIK all the other procedures do require an incision? However she also got the vocal chords lasered because she was feeling that the first vfs did not give her enough change. The end result was a bit too breathy. My assumption is that this is from the lasering which somehow contracts the vocal chords by forming scar tissue (horrible idea). I will definitely meet with a friend from transition times who did this procedure, just not with Yeson I think. Her voice seems still to be in the same pitch range. I thought it was too high for her overall presentation back then, but maybe that changed or maybe she changed. I have that thing that I think voice has to match the rest. If a person is not very feminine overall, like Jenny is , a very high pitch does not really match up so well. We'll see, I am going to meet her and ask her about her experiences and where she did that. May take a while though, but I will probably make a thread on that if the information is extensive.

Is that one year followup no longer required or why do people not do it? I mean it would be additional costs of course but if it is something one can benefit from, that would have to be included in the calculations.

So here I am...one more week until I no longer have this voice. I can't even find the words to explain the level of excitement I have right now. In just over two weeks I might be able to hear the start of my new voice. Today I'm starting my practice no-talking-coughing-sneezing-laughing-etc phase. Until I leave on Saturday I'm going to act (as much as possible) as if I've already had the surgery. Hopefully this will help me during recovery so it's not so difficult and I can find ways to cope with not being able to do any of that.

I can't help but be paranoid about everything though. One of the first things in their paperwork is saying that surgery can't be done if I have any cold symptoms! Because of that I've resigned myself to be totally reclusive for the next week. I'll be working from home and not leaving unless I absolutely have to. All I can think about is having spent thousands of dollars and all of my emotional energy just to be denied surgery because I get sick! I don't know how I'd cope if that happens. I'm also double, triple, quadruple checking the flight and hotel information to make sure I got all the dates right and everything.

So far everything seems to be in order and I am feeling well. C'mon universe, please don't choose now to throw me a curve ball :-) I'd totally love you forever and ever!

Sarah, I to was worried about getting a cold, but apart from taking reasonable steps (not to get one) I don't think you need to worry.

I suspect that you will be more in awe of the surgery than they will be.  it's not a major for them.  They do the surgery and provide your room in their centre which is in amongst what seems like thousands of other businesses.  You will be taken across the road to have your X-Ray at another facility that you wouldn't expect was there.

It's a month in 2 or 3 days since I had mine.

Make sure they understand if you have any dental work.  And for those who follow you, I hope you stand up to them if they call you he or Mr.  You might also like to check the medical certificate they give you.  Mine says He and then She in the same sentence.  It isn't a typo and the rest of their paperwork is in perfectly presented english.

Hope

Sarah, I wish you all the best on this and hope you will be getting there fine and have a good surgery. I felt for a moment the excitement there - knowing that in a week the voice will be gone and be replaced - that is an interesting thought indeed. And of course we expect to hear from you how things go and how your recovery works out and how your voice is doing. Make yure you do all kinds of pre-op recordings to compare, if you will, that would be awsome, so you can compare speaking regularly (in the femme or in a relaxed or even the "original" voice), reading and doing sounds and acting  from before and after. Last chance to record all of these now
Best wishes!