Hello everyone, im wondering if anyone here has ever sued their top surgeon.  Heres the situation,  im 3 months post op ftm top surgery.  I sent in pre op pictures and did my pre op appt and was never informed about an additional surgery. A few weeks ago I contacted this well known top surgeon to talk to him about my dogear which he said during my reveal I "shouldnt have". Well I do and they are bigger than pre op and very painful. So my phone call was to inquire about a revision on my dogears. He preceded to tell me that I don't have dogear and what I want done is part of my back although the problem area is clearly under my arm. He tell me that that surgery is 1300 for the anesthesiologist and 3000 for him to remove the breast tissue and my scar would go all the to my back. My back is not is pain the pain is where the incisions are from top surgery. This doctor is very well known in the community so Im not going to say his name until I figure what to do about this situation.  It seems like from the day I completely paid him everything went down hill from there. I was told by the office staff that they had another patient with the same last name as mine and apparently they told this guy my whole name and he found me on facebook and sent me a message saying "so your the guy so and so keeps getting me confused with" I said yep. After surgery I found out they wanted to charge 50 dollars to fill out a piece of paper for me to return to work. My job hard I problem getting it so one day I called the office about 4:30 pm got put on hold and everyone went home. I took a picture of my screen and emailed him the picture. This guy who has the same last name as me sent me a message after he had surgery which was a month after mine and told me the office staff put all of my personal information on his work return forms and now of course him wanted to charge me an additional 4300 to get rid of dog ears. Doesnt every surgeon do that automatically without an additiobal charge. The funny thing is he never mentioned it. If he had I would have put my money down at a different surgeon. 

Dog ears are not uncommon in DI surgery. Sometimes revisions are included with the cost, sometimes not. This is something worth asking before your surgery. You can sue anyone but that doesn't mean you are likely to win.

As to sharing your surgeons name, if you do you may save someone from the same hassle in the future. As long as it is truth, it is not slander.

I would suggest speaking to a lawyer to see what your options realistically are.

I do think the leaving while putting you on hold is unprofessional and mixing up your records with another person would be grounds to sue and would certainly benefit if this other person stood with you for it.

Quote from: LordKAT on August 25, 2013, 11:53:00 PM
Dog ears are not uncommon in DI surgery. Sometimes revisions are included with the cost, sometimes not. This is something worth asking before your surgery. You can sue anyone but that doesn't mean you are likely to win.

As to sharing your surgeons name, if you do you may save someone from the same hassle in the future. As long as it is truth, it is not slander.

I would suggest spit if I eead it about him.aking to a lawyer to see what your options realistically are.

I do think the leaving while putting you on hold is unprofessional and mixing up your records with another person would be grounds to sue and would certainly benefit if this other person stood with you for it.

The other actually he would if needed. All the paperwork he gave me during my pre op appt said that the revision would be 1300 the price of the anesthesiologist.  Which is what I was prepared to pay to have them removed until he said oh thats a whole different surgery. All the videos and pictures of guys hes done none of them paid anything extra to have dog ears removed. Lord if I said the name it would be unbelievable.  Myself before surgery wouldnt believe I

Think I know who, *cough* G?
Mind posting a picture of your chest here?
If your dog ears are minor, and can be corrected with a healthy lifestyle;
then it makes sense your surgeon doesn't want to waste time on it.
If that'S not the case then wth??

(lol if I guessed the wrong surgeon I'm gonna feel silly.)

You better have LOTS and LOTS of money to sue a surgeon,
because they sure themselves have lots of money for very good lawyers.
It'll probably cost much more than simply paying the revision fees.

If I guessed the right surgeon, I'd be very interested in knowing more about your story.
Having surgery with him in October.

Quote from: Jayr on August 26, 2013, 11:48:32 PM
Think I know who, *cough* G?
Mind posting a picture of your chest here?
If your dog ears are minor, and can be corrected with a healthy lifestyle;
then it makes sense your surgeon doesn't want to waste time on it.
If that'S not the case then wth??

(lol if I guessed the wrong surgeon I'm gonna feel silly.)

You better have LOTS and LOTS of money to sue a surgeon,
because they sure themselves have lots of money for very good lawyers.
It'll probably cost much more than simply paying the revision fees.

If I guessed the right surgeon, I'd be very interested in knowing more about your story.
Having surgery with him in October.

how do I post pictures? The dog ears are huge. The thing about suing him isnt about the money its more about mean what you say and dont change stuff later and jack the price up because you did do what you said you would do. Ive thought about making a video and emailing him but what I dont want is to piss him off in case he chamges his mind and does it for the revision price which is what I was expecting to pay. A video would really hurt him.

Upload to a photo hosting site and then put a link in your post.

Quote from: LordKAT on August 27, 2013, 09:41:09 AM
Upload to a photo hosting site and then put a link in your post.

ok. Downloading flickr now. I must warn yall. My chest looks very gross! I'm really disappointed.

Maybe remind him that you have a paper stating revisions were included in the fee.
You could go to a general physician to check and make sure everything is okay.
He/She could also tell you if the problem is your back or not.

And no worries. We've seen gross surgeries here

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/100892447@N04/ I hope this link works.

Please leave a comment on the pictures and tell me what you think.

For a guy your size, your surgeon did a very good job.
I'm sure you knew dog ears were a very big risk with your body type.
Couldn't go in surgery expecting for it to come out perfect.

Though I don't understand how your back is the problem?
Clearly dog ears. I'm sure simple lipo could reduce how prominent they are.
I'm not a surgeon though, but that's what I think.

You should show him the paper clearly stating revisions were supposed to be free.
Well at least with no surgeon fee. If that was the deal, that was the deal. The end.
But you have to be realistic, even with revision you can't expect perfect result.

Quote from: Jayr on August 27, 2013, 05:17:46 PM
For a guy your size, your surgeon did a very good job.
I'm sure you knew dog ears were a very big risk with your body type.
Couldn't go in surgery expecting for it to come out perfect.

Though I don't understand how your back is the problem?
Clearly dog ears. I'm sure simple lipo could reduce how prominent they are.
I'm not a surgeon though, but that's what I think.

You should show him the paper clearly stating revisions were supposed to be free.
Well at least with no surgeon fee. If that was the deal, that was the deal. The end.
But you have to be realistic, even with revision you can't expect perfect result.

Why shouldn't I expect perfection? Isn't that what we pay for? Although i don't expect perfection I do expect for him to do what he said.  He said I wouldn't have dog ears so I shouldn't have dog ears. I definitely didnt expect to spend a total of 10, 000 dollars to have chest surgery and dog ears.

Well, nobody here can comment on what the surgeon did or did not say, and we cannot interpret what he might have meant at any given time. Could he have meant that you would not have dogears after revision? (It doesn't sound like it.) Your best evidence is your paperwork, but if the surgeon is saying that those are not dogears, then you will have a hard time getting him to revise the "dogears" under a mostly-free-revision clause.

We are not surgeons here. I had some tags under my arms that I was calling dogears, and my surgeon explicitly stated that they were not dogears. He took care of them with outpatient lipo. But maybe your particular body makes a more extensive surgery (and further scarring) necessary? Or maybe I'm just talking out of my ass. So if I were you, I might very well get a consultation from another surgeon. It will probably cost you a consultation fee, but an attorney might very well require corroboration from an outside expert anyway (also please note that I'm not a lawyer, either). And if your original surgeon's revision price is thousands of dollars, you might actually be better off getting a revision from the second surgeon. Not that I want that outcome, of course; I'm just saying worst case scenario.

Or you can see an attorney now. Maybe you can find one who doesn't charge for the first visit.

Good luck, and keep us posted. This is a very difficult situation, and I hope you can resolve it to your satisfaction.

Quote from: Arch on August 27, 2013, 05:45:00 PM
Well, nobody here can comment on what the surgeon did or did not say, and we cannot interpret what he might have meant at any given time. Could he have meant that you would not have dogears after revision? (It doesn't sound like it.) Your best evidence is your paperwork, but if the surgeon is saying that those are not dogears, then you will have a hard time getting him to revise the "dogears" under a mostly-free-revision clause.

We are not surgeons here. I had some tags under my arms that I was calling dogears, and my surgeon explicitly stated that they were not dogears. He took care of them with outpatient lipo. But maybe your particular body makes a more extensive surgery (and further scarring) necessary? Or maybe I'm just talking out of my ass. So if I were you, I might very well get a consultation from another surgeon. It will probably cost you a consultation fee, but an attorney might very well require corroboration from an outside expert anyway (also please note that I'm not a lawyer, either). And if your original surgeon's revision price is thousands of dollars, you might actually be better off getting a revision from the second surgeon. Not that I want that outcome, of course; I'm just saying worst case scenario.

Or you can see an attorney now. Maybe you can find one who doesn't charge for the first visit.

Good luck, and keep us posted. This is a very difficult situation, and I hope you can resolve it to your satisfaction.

Arch who was your surgeon?

I went to a guy in California, Brian Eichenberg. I was one of his earlier FTM patients.

Quote from: GAtransman on August 25, 2013, 11:32:03 PM
This guy who has the same last name as me sent me a message after he had surgery which was a month after mine and told me the office staff put all of my personal information on his work return forms and now of course him wanted to charge me an additional 4300 to get rid of dog ears.

Little late to this post and I can't help with the dogear situation...but this stuff with the other client with the same name as you...well that's a huge HIPPA violation and totally f'd up.  And what's more f'd up is I don't think you can sue for a HIPAA violation.  You should report it though:
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/complaints/index.html

Maybe you can use the HIPAA situation to wangle an appropriately-priced revision, but I wouldn't want surgery from a doc whose arm I'm twisting...

Quote from: Jayr on August 26, 2013, 11:48:32 PM
You better have LOTS and LOTS of money to sue a surgeon,
because they sure themselves have lots of money for very good lawyers.
It'll probably cost much more than simply paying the revision fees.

Not necessarily. If the opening poster is in the USA, most civil suits are done on a contingent fee basis -- no charges unless your case is successful in settlement, mediatation/arbitration, or litigation. Depending on the case and attorney, some will make you pay fees, but quite a lot don't--the fees are included in the contingent fee. A common contingent fee is 1/3 of whatever it is you get. (Also, usually companies/insurers/etc. are very quick to settle just because it's often cheaper to pay someone to leave them alone than it is to actually go to trial. Why would a hospital or doctor pay for an entire defense team, their own expert witnesses (expert witnesses are expensive, especially medical ones which often charge $1000+ an hour), etc. when they can hand someone who's unhappy about scarring a few grand and be done with it? I am a paralegal at a civil law firm, and we often easily get a lot of quick settlements just after sending a few angry letters and a few phone calls for all sorts of cases. Even if our case would be a clear loser in a courtroom, it's cheaper for the other to pay us off <---of course, this doesn't apply to cases where people want big money).

There's also legal aid organizations out there for those who can't afford attorneys, you can call up your state Bar Association where they'll have a number you an call for pro bono or low-cost attorneys. They'd be able to refer you to an attorney that doesn't charge for an initial consult.

Like others said above, you can't expect perfection in surgery. We'd all like it, but that's not the standard. If you sue for negligence, the court will tell the jury they'd need to decide the case on what a "reasonable surgeon with the same training and experience would do under like circumstances". You'd likely need to have something to show that the results from your surgery were the result of some sort of negligence or would fall under res ipsa loquitur to shift the burden of proof. There might be other things you can sue on though, such as contract law, where you might also have a claim. If you seek an attorney to help you out, they'll likely want to see all the paperwork you signed to see if you waived any rights or if there's an arbitration clause. [Again, I am not an attorney, I am just a paralegal].

Like Hodge Podge said, that is a HIPAA violation, and you should def mention it to any attorney you see. As stated here a private individual can't sue over HIPAA, but if you have some kind of harm from the violation (which it doesn't sound like you do. A harm you can sue on isn't just that your privacy was violated, you'd likely need something like you loose your job because your employer found out you have a disease, or someone steals your SSN that was given out against the rules) then you could bring a tort action to recover for the damage. 

Overall, I'd at least seek an initial consultation with an attorney to see what his or her opinion would be. Look for someone who's experienced in med-mal in cosmetic surgeries.

[I am just adding this in, because I know A LOT of people don't realize that there's resources out there for people who can't afford attorneys. If you're ever in legal need, or even if you just want something like a will written or help getting a company started, you should always look to see what pro bono organizations your state has, or what clinics are available at a local law school. I see too many people come into our office with mistakes that we need to fix because they tried to represent themselves thinking there wasn't pro bono or low cost services available to help in their matter.]

Hey, GATransman.

It sucks you are unhappy with your surgery.  I had surgery with Garramone 9 days ago and I believe that I signed something saying that I would not sue him for malpractice.  I remember thinking it was odd that a physician could request I sign something like that, but among the large amount of papers (which honestly I did not read intently), I remember signing something along those lines.  I do not have a copy of this paper.

In looking at my paperwork I have do a copy of the "informed consent" I initialed/signed.  It is a 6 page document.  On the top of page 3 there is a place where I initialed how "dog ears" are "small puckering of skin at the ends of the incision" which are different from "large flaps of skin, which are due to excess skin and obesity".

What I signed goes on to say that, "Excess skin associated with excessive lateral breast fat, obesity, or massive weight loss cannot be flattened completely with chest surgery alone and may require further body contouring procedures known as an "axillary dermatolipectomy" to flatten the lateral chest contour, which is not included in the fee and is not considered a revision for FTM Top Surgery and is a separate surgery of its own for body contouring".

Is this what Garramone said you need?  A second opinion may make sense.  Maybe there is someone near you who could give you a free consult?  You don't need to use them for any surgery, but at least you would know if they agree with Dr. Garramone's assessment or not.

Now, in terms of the HIPPA issue, anything you may have signed about "malpractice" wouldn't apply, as that is a whole different ball of wax!

Sorry again about your surgery.  The cost and time it takes to go through this only to be unhappy would be extremely disheartening.

I hope the above information helps.

Quote from: GAtransman on August 27, 2013, 05:26:31 PM
Why shouldn't I expect perfection? Isn't that what we pay for?

It's not what I paid for. I knew that all human bodies are different, and I knew that surgery of this type is an inexact "science" with variable results.

I also knew that because my moobs were saggy from middle age and because I was still about twenty pounds overweight, I might have some fairly serious cosmetic issues at the end of the day. Fortunately, that didn't happen--all I had were some small irregular puckered spots that my doc took care of in less than an hour under a local. He called them tags--maybe they weren't even big enough to be called dogears, or maybe he was just using his own terminology.

If you were subject to the description posted by Brett--that is, if you went to Garramone--then it looks like you don't have actual dogears. Not that I'm an expert by any means. But honestly, if I were the one unhappy with my surgery, I would get a second opinion with an experienced surgeon, and I would take my original paperwork along.

But I do think it's unreasonable to expect perfection. I've seen a lot of pics of top surgeries over the years (and a number of chests in the flesh), and I wouldn't call any of them perfect...well, maybe a couple come close.