Serious question, I know alot of other trans people or homosexuals who find it shocking that I don't agree with it and make it seem like I have to because the T just so happens to be with the L,G and B, But I'm not trying to offend anyone I just happen to be very religious

You don't HAVE to do much but live and die. But why would you want to. You can be very religious and be very accepting of homosexuality.  Your choice.

No, you don't have to agree with it.  There are a couple of other people here that thinks it's a sin too.  I do admit it was a shock to me at first, but it wore off.  Even though I personally don't see it as a sin based upon my exegesis of the Bible, I don't condemn other Christians for believing it's a sin. 

I normally avoid this area but i wanted to comment and give alittle more understanding.I was raised in a very strict conservative christian home and yes,the very hateful bigoted kind.I was taught the normal *God hates this and that,over here and there* and for me,that was what i *thought* was supposed to happen.BUT the older i got,the closer to God I got myself and on a personal level.The more i did,the more HE showed me what was true and false.And i thought to myself *If the bible says that jesus died for ALL and loves all,why would he be against anyone for anything?* So you could say that i had a long period of *checking* the information fed to me.And what i found is that MANY people *the more hateful ones* forget that he DOES love ALL people,regardless of anything and everything *well other then one thing but* Jesus died so that we may find remission of sins and thats because we ALL need him,regardless of what we have done.That being said,To him-ALL sin is the same *other then one like i said* so what if one lies? we can be against it but not judge,hate or turn away someone who does it.We can love everyone unconditionally just like he says to do while keeping our morals and beliefs.Jesus forgave MANY kinds of people and loved them,no matter where they were from,what they did,who they were with but it was his uncondtional love and acceptance,that made people realize that-he WAS different and IS.Many now a days completely twist who he is and what he stood for to fit their own hatred and bias beliefs but no matter what you agree with or dont,never push anyone away,and love all man kind always

As its said *Love the sinner but not the sin* you dont need to point out that what someone does,is a sin-love them In SPITE of the sin and that is unconditional love.Loving someone regardless of their flaws,sins,looks,love them because they have a soul and are human.

I feel like i need to give you two examples so that i do not come off wrong.Below i want to make it clear what i mean.This comes to *how would jesus handle it*

Situation: A gay man comes up and says hello.getting to know him,he opens up about his life and his likes/dislikes,being over all friendly but not in a malice way.

Here you have two choices.1) out right point the finger and tell him hes commiting a sin and tell him what he *should do* right and how he should live is life.Or 2) you can simply say *I do not care if you are black or white,rich or poor,gay or straight,up or down.i love you for who YOU are.*

Quote from: Chaos on October 19, 2013, 09:30:33 PM
I normally avoid this area but i wanted to comment and give alittle more understanding.I was raised in a very strict conservative christian home and yes,the very hateful bigoted kind.I was taught the normal *God hates this and that,over here and there* and for me,that was what i *thought* was supposed to happen.BUT the older i got,the closer to God I got myself and on a personal level.The more i did,the more HE showed me what was true and false.And i thought to myself *If the bible says that jesus died for ALL and loves all,why would he be against anyone for anything?* So you could say that i had a long period of *checking* the information fed to me.And what i found is that MANY people *the more hateful ones* forget that he DOES love ALL people,regardless of anything and everything *well other then one thing but* Jesus died so that we may find remission of sins and thats because we ALL need him,regardless of what we have done.That being said,To him-ALL sin is the same *other then one like i said* so what if one lies? we can be against it but not judge,hate or turn away someone who does it.We can love everyone unconditionally just like he says to do while keeping our morals and beliefs.Jesus forgave MANY kinds of people and loved them,no matter where they were from,what they did,who they were with but it was his uncondtional love and acceptance,that made people realize that-he WAS different and IS.Many now a days completely twist who he is and what he stood for to fit their own hatred and bias beliefs but no matter what you agree with or dont,never push anyone away,and love all man kind always

I understand that, But God hates the sin not the sinner, It's like a parent sometimes they hate the decisions you make but they hate the decision not the decision maker,Yes not sin is greater but their are also abomnations which some of may not agree but it means he despises it, I don't think homosexuaility should be considered that but unfortunately it's Yes I feel that people should love whom ever they want but I don't think thoes were Gods intentions

Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2013, 09:36:03 PM


I understand that, But God hates the sin not the sinner, It's like a parent sometimes they hate the decisions you make but they hate the decision not the decision maker,Yes not sin is greater but their are also abomnations which some of may not agree but it means he despises it, I don't think homosexuaility should be considered that but unfortunately it's Yes I feel that people should love whom ever they want but I don't think thoes were Gods intentions

Regardless of what God states/doesnt state,What we have to understand is that there is one right judge and just like anyone else,we will be judged too.I myself have been judged most of my life and over the stupidest things and by the same people who claimed to *Know God* when they didnt know their a** from a hole in the ground.I know in my life that i will set him as a good example and that he is,exactly as HE says he is.I myself do not want to stand before him and one of those things being that i did not love and accept someone because of ANY reason.

Quote from: Chaos on October 19, 2013, 09:45:12 PM
Regardless of what God states/doesnt state,What we have to understand is that there is one right judge and just like anyone else,we will be judged too.I myself have been judged most of my life and over the stupidest things and by the same people who claimed to *Know God* when they didnt know their a** from a hole in the ground.I know in my life that i will set him as a good example and that he is,exactly as HE says he is.I myself do not want to stand before him and one of those things being that i did not love and accept someone because of ANY reason.

I'm not jugding anyone, But I'm gonna deny that some peoples lifestyles are wrong gay or not, Having sex before marriage is wrong, But no Im not gonna point at you and say your going to hell, But it sure is real you can't just enter the kingdom of heaven any kind of way you have to live according to the word, And I'm not going to hell for condoning something I kno w is wrong

Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2013, 09:02:38 PM
Serious question, I know alot of other trans people or homosexuals who find it shocking that I don't agree with it and make it seem like I have to because the T just so happens to be with the L,G and B, But I'm not trying to offend anyone I just happen to be very religious

I personally don't think that with trans people, the concept of straight or gay much apply.

If you are a pre-op FtM and you are with a female is it a "sin"?  Or if you are with a male?

Are you defining yourself by your "mind sex," or by your genitalia?

Are you saying that of you have "front hole" sex with a natal male, you are homosexual, even though you might conceive?

Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2013, 09:36:03 PM
Yes I feel that people should love whom ever they want but I don't think thoes were Gods intentions

Couldn't the same thing be said about being trans? If you think about it if Gods intention was for us to be born in the the gender we believe to be correct we would have been. And you could totally make the argument that us taking matters into our own hands by transitioning we are playing God and saying He/She made a mistake. I think it would wrong too call out gay people for being sinners without looking at ourselves first. Just because we seem to in a gray area according to biblical law doesn't mean were not sinning by transitioning. Somehow I highly suspect if people had the ability to transition back in biblical times it would be considered an abomination just like homosexuality.     

Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2013, 09:57:09 PM


I'm not jugding anyone, But I'm gonna deny that some peoples lifestyles are wrong gay or not, Having sex before marriage is wrong, But no Im not gonna point at you and say your going to hell, But it sure is real you can't just enter the kingdom of heaven any kind of way you have to live according to the word, And I'm not going to hell for condoning something I kno w is wrong

This is where I disagree Brandon.  That is known as "Lordship Salvation" which I believe is a damnable heresy. 



Even lying is enough to condemn is to hell.

We all have our sins.  There are only 4 sins (that I believe a true believer would never commit in the first place) that will send a person to hell and none of those sins include homosexuality.

It's a good thing we are saved by grace.  Otherwise, we all would go to hell.

Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2013, 09:57:09 PM


I'm not jugding anyone, But I'm gonna deny that some peoples lifestyles are wrong gay or not, Having sex before marriage is wrong, But no Im not gonna point at you and say your going to hell, But it sure is real you can't just enter the kingdom of heaven any kind of way you have to live according to the word, And I'm not going to hell for condoning something I kno w is wrong

To even be more clear.We are ONLY here to love and pass along what he tells us to but it also states to never judge,ever and that,that is HIS job.Only one sin that wont be forgiven and that is NOT two men loving each other emotionally.I do not believe that two people of the same sex,living and loving one another is a sin,in any way.Tho many do claim that *having sexual relations* is what states this *abomination*.Even back then,what determined you were married was having sexual relations.there wasnt paper work or anything else,or even a ring.I remember the first girlfriend i had *before i knew i was trans* and there for awhile *this was while i was still blind to the truth on a few things* i felt lost.Even though i repented *thinking i commited this horrid sin* this nagging feeling would not leave me alone.After a long time,i realized that it was something to do with me.I knew that IF i commited a sin,he had forgiven me but something was going on that I couldnt move past.It was then that i realized that the battle taking place inside me was over WHO i was and not the *sin* i had commited.To say that,how could i commit a sin as a male? my body was female but everything inside was not.and me and my ex girlfriend even stopped having sexual relations for a very long time and it was still there but it was LONG after that i finally realized.Even the bible says that the body is NOT who you are and that it was the temple of God.That someday it would be reborn.I feel that many base not wisdom on this subject but what they are taught.From someone who has not only experienced it first hand but someone who just knows,i would take some personal time alone with him and let HIM show you what it means,not what others *say* it means.

And how are you *condoning* someone you love unconditionally? Jesus didnt condone anything but he also didnt prosecute them over it either.Let me give you an example.There were two men on the cross with jesus was there not?

*One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, "Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!" 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 "And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." 42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."*

He didnt stop to ask *are you gay?* and God knows everything about every single person.the fact was that this man took his punishment honestly and KNEW he did wrong and repented.Why cant WE offer people the same in return? LOVE them regardless of what sins/crimes we *think* they have commited

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on October 19, 2013, 10:00:43 PM
I personally don't think that with trans people, the concept of straight or gay much apply.

If you are a pre-op FtM and you are with a female is it a "sin"?  Or if you are with a male?

Are you defining yourself by your "mind sex," or by your genitalia?

Are you saying that of you have "front hole" sex with a natal male, you are homosexual, even though you might conceive?

Sexual orientation s different from gender, Im a straight male who likes females, Theirfore I'm not homosexual

Quote from: Heather on October 19, 2013, 10:04:58 PM
Couldn't the same thing be said about being trans? If you think about it if Gods intention was for us to be born in the the gender we believe to be correct we would have been. And you could totally make the argument that us taking matters into our own hands by transitioning we are playing God and saying He/She made a mistake. I think it would wrong too call out gay people for being sinners without looking at ourselves first. Just because we seem to in a gray area according to biblical law doesn't mean were not sinning by transitioning. Somehow I highly suspect if people had the ability to transition back in biblical times it would be considered an abomination just like homosexuality.     

Yea but being trans is a birth defect, though and God said nothing about transgenders in the bible though, God does look at the heart but two men being together verses fixing a birth defect are two seperate things

Brandon,
I hope this helps with your question about sin and abomination.

1 John 5: 16,17
[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
[17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

A sin not unto death is a sin in which there is forgiveness.
A sin unto death is an abomination or sin of which there is no forgiveness.

An abomination or sin unto death would be blasphemy of the Holy ghost or speaking against the Holy Ghost. Since Peter said all scripture was given as holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost speaking against the word or the words of Jesus are not forgivable. Willfully sinning is another as another. Christ was to be crucified once and not to be recrucified. As written the redemption of their soul is precious and ceaseth forever.

If you feel something is a sin or an abomination the best thing to do is always go towards the Lord and never away. Towards obedience and never towards that which could be rebellion either knowingly or unknowingly.

I hope this helps.
I wish you well with your faith.

Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2013, 10:19:48 PM

Sexual orientation s different from gender, Im a straight male who likes females, Theirfore I'm not homosexual

I think you are missing their point.You are claiming that the physical body determines this sin as an abomination but not taking into account that unless you have had SRS,that physical body is still as it was at birth,so in your own words-anyone who is phyically male *for example* and with another male,is an abomination.I honestly think now is a good time to go to him and seek him out for answers and let HIM show you what the truth is.

Quote from: Malachite on October 19, 2013, 10:06:17 PM
This is where I disagree Brandon.  That is known as "Lordship Salvation" which I believe is a damnable heresy. 



Even lying is enough to condemn is to hell.

We all have our sins.  There are only 4 sins (that I believe a true believer would never commit in the first place) that will send a person to hell and none of those sins include homosexuality.

It's a good thing we are saved by grace.  Otherwise, we all would go to hell.

Uh their are alot of sins that will cause you to go to hell like lying because God will not even judge a lier he will judge a murdere befor the lier, Just because were save by grace does not mean were exempt from hell that includes homosexuals

Quote from: Chaos on October 19, 2013, 10:08:58 PM
To even be more clear.We are ONLY here to love and pass along what he tells us to but it also states to never judge,ever and that,that is HIS job.Only one sin that wont be forgiven and that is NOT two men loving each other emotionally.I do not believe that two people of the same sex,living and loving one another is a sin,in any way.Tho many do claim that *having sexual relations* is what states this *abomination*.Even back then,what determined you were married was having sexual relations.there wasnt paper work or anything else,or even a ring.I remember the first girlfriend i had *before i knew i was trans* and there for awhile *this was while i was still blind to the truth on a few things* i felt lost.Even though i repented *thinking i commited this horrid sin* this nagging feeling would not leave me alone.After a long time,i realized that it was something to do with me.I knew that IF i commited a sin,he had forgiven me but something was going on that I couldnt move past.It was then that i realized that the battle taking place inside me was over WHO i was and not the *sin* i had commited.To say that,how could i commit a sin as a male? my body was female but everything inside was not.and me and my ex girlfriend even stopped having sexual relations for a very long time and it was still there but it was LONG after that i finally realized.Even the bible says that the body is NOT who you are and that it was the temple of God.That someday it would be reborn.I feel that many base not wisdom on this subject but what they are taught.From someone who has not only experienced it first hand but someone who just knows,i would take some personal time alone with him and let HIM show you what it means,not what others *say* it means.

And how are you *condoning* someone you love unconditionally? Jesus didnt condone anything but he also didnt prosecute them over it either.Let me give you an example.There were two men on the cross with jesus was there not?

*One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, "Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!" 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 "And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." 42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."*

He didnt stop to ask *are you gay?* and God knows everything about every single person.the fact was that this man took his punishment honestly and KNEW he did wrong and repented.Why cant WE offer people the same in return? LOVE them regardless of what sins/crimes we *think* they have commited

Jugding is in oppion and its not jugding if you know it's wrong, Regardless I'm still not condoning your sin knoow will I flat out point at you and say our going to hell no, But if you ask for my oppion, I'm not gonna surgar coat it

Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2013, 10:26:19 PM

Uh their are alot of sins that will cause you to go to hell like lying because God will not even judge a lier he will judge a murdere befor the lier, Just because were save by grace does not mean were exempt from hell that includes homosexuals

Im sorry to tell you,he judges ALL sin in front of his throne and all at the same time.No sin is greater then the other so a murderer doesnt get judged before a liar but at the same time.And i will say this again and if you are unwilling to listen then i will post some things for you from his own mouth.Gods word goes beyond the physical body and so do we as followers.Even if being transgender was a defect,it still surpass's the physical and the body should never be singled out when it comes to this *abomination* call it the will of God but regardless,you can NOT claim that it is ok for a transgender person to commit in physical sins *because they have a *defect* while condeming everyone else.

Quote from: Chaos on October 19, 2013, 10:23:56 PM
I think you are missing their point.You are claiming that the physical body determines this sin as an abomination but not taking into account that unless you have had SRS,that physical body is still as it was at birth,so in your own words-anyone who is phyically male *for example* and with another male,is an abomination.I honestly think now is a good time to go to him and seek him out for answers and let HIM show you what the truth is.

No If you identify as male and is having sex and or dating other males your sinning and vice versa, I'm not sinning I identify as male and I'm hetrosexual.

Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2013, 10:26:19 PM

Uh their are alot of sins that will cause you to go to hell like lying because God will not even judge a lier he will judge a murdere befor the lier, Just because were save by grace does not mean were exempt from hell that includes homosexuals

A true believer can never lose their salvation, therefore a true believe IS exempt from hell.   I have tons of Bible verses that proves that.  I don't believe that a true believer MUST repent of their sins to be saved or stay saved.