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As a transgender male do I have to agree with Homosexuality as a Christian

Started by Brandon, October 19, 2013, 09:02:38 PM

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Brandon

Quote from: Heather on October 19, 2013, 11:25:24 PM
Lol I laugh because I started dressing like a girl and calling myself Heather when I was 5. But that doesn't mean I didn't question myself when I got older I did a lot and they were times where I desperately wanted to be a normal boy but it just didn't workout that way no matter how much I prayed. But nobody is making you agree with homosexuality it's your life I just wanted to show you they are some similarities between being gay and being trans. I know for a fact my attraction towards men is not the same as gay men but I can understand what they go through in wanting nothing in the world more than to be normal and realizing you can't.



Well I already know I'm not a lesbian I figured out that I was trans by 14, Never once questioned weather or not I was a lesbian because I knew I was a male, How I feel about homosexuals has nothing to do with who I am,, That's how I was brought and Ive read enough scriptures to know that, My feelings towards women have again nothing to do with why I belive homosexuals are wrong and I know this for a fact you may have struggles with it but I'm not, Were two different people again I already know I'm male, So that was kind of irrelavant
keep working hard and you can get anything you want.    -Aaliyah
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Brandon

Quote from: Malachite on October 19, 2013, 11:19:26 PM
This so much ^

Brandon, I am getting a mixed message from you.  It almost sounds like your saying that your feelings towards women are wrong if you don't transition, but your attraction to women will be justified if you DO transition because the Bible doesn't condemn being transgender while you see scriptures that you feel do condemn homosexuality.

Many people here have told you that you need to seek the answers from Him and pray for guidence.  I remember in another post where you said that you feel God is not pleased with you.  Could you please explain why that is?  I don't want to assume anything, so I'm asking,do you feel that you can't go to God because you may be afraid that he would tell you to not to transition?  Again, I'm just curious.  I'm not judging.  Let us know what's going through your mind because we don't know.

Your far off that's not what I'm implying at all, And yes sometimes I don't feel God is pleased with me, 90% of it has nothing to do with me being trans
keep working hard and you can get anything you want.    -Aaliyah
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Shaina

Quote from: Brandon on October 20, 2013, 07:35:23 AM
Your far off that's not what I'm implying at all, And yes sometimes I don't feel God is pleased with me, 90% of it has nothing to do with me being trans

Hey There!

You said 90% of the reasons you might feel God may not be pleased with you have nothing to do with being trans. I was just wondering what the other 10% signified?

Glad you came back to hear the responses btw even if you don't agree with them! :)
I was a child and she was a child   
    In this kingdom by the sea:   
But we loved with a love that was more than love—
    I and my Annabel Lee
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Kaelin

I'm reluctant to stick my nose in here, but good Christians are in no way obligated to disapprove of same-sex attraction and relationships.  Yes, there's an old testament mention of men sleeping together being forbidden, but that same part of Bible gives us other things (abridged list):

You're required build a parapet on the roof of your house.
You can't wear blended fabrics.
You're required to eat kosher.
Polygamy is okay.
Slavery is okay.
Women are property to be sold from their fathers to men.
Killing people for worshiping other gods is commendable.

Taking this together, I highly disagree with the idea that conforming with the old testament is necessary to be a good Christian.  It's not to say you can't find interesting things in that part of the Bible, but you're playing with fire if you believe in a proscriptive idea because it appeared in the old testament.  There are Christians leaders who stand by this rule, but other leaders believe that gay/lesbian/bisexual people are every bit as good and worthy as other people (even when they acquire consenting same-sex relationships).

Frankly, I think being a good Christian requires that you embrace gay/lesbian/bisexual people provided that they seek out healthy relationships with potential romantic companions -- which is the standard you should hold heterosexual people, too, as well.  The essential difference in same-sex versus mixed-sex relationships is potential reproductive capabilities, and couples who can't reproduce (which includes many mixed-sex couples) can still have children through other means (egg/sperm donation, adoption).  There's nothing intrinsic here that makes same-sex couplings immoral.  It may seem counter to Christianity to think in these kinds of terms, but it's wholly in-line with what was said of Jesus in the Bible: in addition to preaching generosity and love, he called on people to recognize where good really comes from in the story of the Good Samaritan.  Implicit to recognizing where true good comes from (not from status, but by how we treat others), we should also be mindful where bad/sin comes from -- from actually causing harm.

I'm curious about that 10% trans component as well.
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Danielle Emmalee

Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2013, 09:02:38 PM
Serious question, I know alot of other trans people or homosexuals who find it shocking that I don't agree with it and make it seem like I have to because the T just so happens to be with the L,G and B, But I'm not trying to offend anyone I just happen to be very religious

No you don't have to.  Do I have to agree with your transition if how I interpret the Bible tells me that it's wrong?  No, I don't have to.  Being part of Susan's does require me to respect it though and I'd say that it does the same for your views on homosexuality.  As long as you do that, I have a hard time believing anyone will give you a hard time about your beliefs.
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
Discord, we won't take it anymore
So take your tyranny away!
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Brandon

Quote from: Kaelin on October 20, 2013, 10:35:24 AM
I'm reluctant to stick my nose in here, but good Christians are in no way obligated to disapprove of same-sex attraction and relationships.  Yes, there's an old testament mention of men sleeping together being forbidden, but that same part of Bible gives us other things (abridged list):

You're required build a parapet on the roof of your house.
You can't wear blended fabrics.
You're required to eat kosher.
Polygamy is okay.
Slavery is okay.
Women are property to be sold from their fathers to men.
Killing people for worshiping other gods is commendable.

Taking this together, I highly disagree with the idea that conforming with the old testament is necessary to be a good Christian.  It's not to say you can't find interesting things in that part of the Bible, but you're playing with fire if you believe in a proscriptive idea because it appeared in the old testament.  There are Christians leaders who stand by this rule, but other leaders believe that gay/lesbian/bisexual people are every bit as good and worthy as other people (even when they acquire consenting same-sex relationships).

Frankly, I think being a good Christian requires that you embrace gay/lesbian/bisexual people provided that they seek out healthy relationships with potential romantic companions -- which is the standard you should hold heterosexual people, too, as well.  The essential difference in same-sex versus mixed-sex relationships is potential reproductive capabilities, and couples who can't reproduce (which includes many mixed-sex couples) can still have children through other means (egg/sperm donation, adoption).  There's nothing intrinsic here that makes same-sex couplings immoral.  It may seem counter to Christianity to think in these kinds of terms, but it's wholly in-line with what was said of Jesus in the Bible: in addition to preaching generosity and love, he called on people to recognize where good really comes from in the story of the Good Samaritan.  Implicit to recognizing where true good comes from (not from status, but by how we treat others), we should also be mindful where bad/sin comes from -- from actually causing harm.

I'm curious about that 10% trans component as well.

I'm not gonna embrace what I know is wrong, I'm not dying and going to hell for
someone else again I'm not condoning your sin
keep working hard and you can get anything you want.    -Aaliyah
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DriftingCrow

Brandon, I have a question.

If having homosexual sex is against how you interpret the Bible, can you only have sex with a woman whom you're married to if you have bottom surgery?

I am just a little confused, it seems like the old testament is more against the act rather than just being gay but not acting on it. Sorry if this seems off topic, but just wondering if you see the Bible's acceptance/disapproval as being physical or mental.
ਮਨਿ ਜੀਤੈ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਤੁ
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ttim0324

Quote from: Brandon on October 20, 2013, 12:30:43 PM
I'm not gonna embrace what I know is wrong, I'm not dying and going to hell for
someone else again I'm not condoning your sin

whoa boy lets try this again: Deuteronomy 22:5 "The WOMAN shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a MAN, neither shall a MAN put on a WOMANS garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God" you are a biological female presenting as a male. You are not only condoning a sin, you are a sinner and an abomination according to the bible. God created male and female, he did not create "a man since I was 5 even though I have the complete physiology of a female". Like, what are you not understanding about this?

You being attracted to women is a SIN because you WERE BORN a woman. It doesnt matter how many times you say you think you're a man, you are doing exactly what you are telling other people they're going to hell for.
;D Top surgery: 11/21/2013 ;D

"My mother said to me, 'If you are a soldier, you will become a general. If you are a monk, you will become the Pope.' Instead, I was a painter, and became Picasso."
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bethanyjadefowell

Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2013, 10:19:48 PM

Sexual orientation s different from gender, Im a straight male who likes females, Theirfore I'm not homosexual

You are so wrong. As you are a FTM who use to be a female who likes females, you are homosexual.

If however, you use to like men as a female then you would not be homosexual.

So what did you like as a female, male or female?





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Heather

Quote from: Brandon on October 20, 2013, 07:31:33 AM


Well I already know I'm not a lesbian I figured out that I was trans by 14, Never once questioned weather or not I was a lesbian because I knew I was a male,How I feel about homosexuals has nothing to do with who I am,, That's how I was brought and Ive read enough scriptures to know that, My feelings towards women have again nothing to do with why I belive homosexuals are wrong and I know this for a fact you may have struggles with it but I'm not, Were two different people again I already know I'm male, So that was kind of irrelavant
Maybe you should go back and give that a second look. You seem to me to using your feelings about being a male to justify your feelings towards women. I don't think God attended to put loopholes in the bible and unless he performs a miracle and you wake up a man tomorrow I still think you'll be committing a sin to be with a woman as far as the bible is concerned. ;)
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DriftingCrow

Quote from: Kaylee on October 20, 2013, 02:14:20 PM

Irrespective of how you've been brought up or what some old book tells you, homophobia is bigoted, hateful and wrong. 

You are in the "Christianity" section where people are allowed to discuss concerns they have regarding their beliefs. Calling the Bible here a "old book"  doesn't seem appropriate.

ਮਨਿ ਜੀਤੈ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਤੁ
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~RoadToTrista~



I would like to point out that he said he doesn't hate gay people, he said he has gay friends and he supports gay marriage but he thinks it's a sin.

<removed quote from deleted post>
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Sephirah

Okay, folks. I don't want to lock this thread just yet, but it's starting to go down a road which will lead to that.

Brandon, maybe you might want to consider the way you word your posts to other people, and how they will take the things you say. Other people have feelings, too. And there are other views and interpretations just as valid as yours.

Everyone else... if you're feeling worked up over something, just take a deep breath and maybe count to ten before hitting the post button.

Healthy debate is good. Mud-slinging and insinuation... isn't. Let's try to keep it to the former, okay?

Thanks.

~Seph.
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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Chaos

Quote from: Sephirah on October 20, 2013, 02:33:49 PM
Okay, folks. I don't want to lock this thread just yet, but it's starting to go down a road which will lead to that.

Brandon, maybe you might want to consider the way you word your posts to other people, and how they will take the things you say. Other people have feelings, too. And there are other views and interpretations just as valid as yours.

Everyone else... if you're feeling worked up over something, just take a deep breath and maybe count to ten before hitting the post button.

Healthy debate is good. Mud-slinging and insinuation... isn't. Let's try to keep it to the former, okay?

Thanks.

~Seph.

Thank you Seph.I personally feel the topic should already be locked for a few reasons.The topic was posted with an open ended question *Do i have to? according to christianity* this allows any and all replies and even some that are not of the religion.As many of us *who really do follow it and have had personal experiences of our own* know,A healthy debate is good as we learn from each other and continue to grow.But i myself feel that this topic was not posted for the purpose of learning or even accepting an answer to that question but as a means to spark a very *heated* debate.Which it has accomplished.I am a very respectful person and even though i came to answer that question,i left the thread because unlike hitting a wall,it was a pointless effort,even if it was just to answer said question.Many of us have given that answer AND according to said religion *in which the topic was based on* but have continued to be corrected and met with resistance.Bless everyones hearts for continueing to try and be patient with the OP,regardless of these things.But part of being wise is knowing when to stop.I have many mixed feelings on this thread and things i will not go into here but the outcome will not change in how this topic will go and that is why i feel personally that it should be locked.Regardless of how big a persons heart is,sometimes wisdom tells us where to direct it.
All Thing's Come With A Price...
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King Malachite

Quote from: Brandon on October 19, 2013, 10:55:20 PM


Yea but their are such things as demons and everyone has them, I know why I have these feelings because I know it's wrong lol

What feelings are you having that are wrong?
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http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,135882.0.html


"Sometimes you have to go through outer hell to get to inner heaven."

"Anomalies can make the best revolutionaries."
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Shaina

Quote from: LearnedHand on October 20, 2013, 02:22:58 PM
You are in the "Christianity" section where people are allowed to discuss concerns they have regarding their beliefs. Calling the Bible here a "old book"  doesn't seem appropriate.

I agree! While I would appreciate seeing the opinions of believers and non-believers alike there's no need to dismiss the Bible in this way.
I was a child and she was a child   
    In this kingdom by the sea:   
But we loved with a love that was more than love—
    I and my Annabel Lee
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Anatta

Kia Ora Brandon,

Re: "As a transgender male do I have to agree with Homosexuality as a Christian?"


If Christian is meant to stand for "Christ-like" and because Christians are split when it comes to Homosexuality (those for and those against=both equally adamant they have the 'right' approach),does this mean Jesus was also in 'two' minds when it comes to homosexuality ? Which Christians are truly "Christ-like" ?

"What would Jesus do ?" Would he agree or disagree with homosexuality ? This is not an open book exam(no quoting scriptures -Remember 'the devil too can cite scripture')-so you will have to really search 'within' for the answer...

Metta Zenda :)

"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Shaina

Quote from: Anatta on October 21, 2013, 12:20:25 AM
Kia Ora Brandon,

Re: "As a transgender male do I have to agree with Homosexuality as a Christian?"


If Christian is meant to stand for "Christ-like" and because Christians are split when it comes to Homosexuality (those for and those against=both equally adamant they have the 'right' approach),does this mean Jesus was also in 'two' minds when it comes to homosexuality ? Which Christians are truly "Christ-like" ?

"What would Jesus do ?" Would he agree or disagree with homosexuality ? This is not an open book exam(no quoting scriptures -Remember 'the devil too can cite scripture')-so you will have to really search 'within' for the answer...

Metta Zenda :)

Yes! Preach Sister Anatta! :)
I was a child and she was a child   
    In this kingdom by the sea:   
But we loved with a love that was more than love—
    I and my Annabel Lee
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noeleena

Hi,

There is a saying in the bible that goes like this forgive them that do wrong , and maybe they do wrong to you ,maybe there are others who do things that are right to them  , yet not to you.

So the ? ill put forward is who is the Judge , when we are given that right then yes we can Judge till then and from what i know of the bible theres only one and no one who has been on this earth has that right, in the context of the true words spoken that were given to us or for those that  follow the teaching of the bible and so long as its in keeping with in the context of what was said .

we need to be very carefull because none of us can cast the first stone none of us are perfect,  we may or not agree on many matters concerning people  .

This is a subject that has created a lot of debate and anger. brother against brother and sister, has broken marriges and the list goes on , iv  seen to much over the years,

so iv held my peace and will because its not our place to tell others what they should or not do.

In the light of that the bigger detail thats going on behind this we really have no idear , i know theres many ?'s and i know while we are on this earth we will not know the answer, and we'v been told that the one who holds the answer will show us when the time is right,

As to your ?  really it has nothing to do with  transgender or wether your male or female  it has more to do with you as a person. as it does myself  i can not say what you are, or who you should go to bed with. only you can answer that with a clear mind of who you are and allow the Spirit to lead you in the right path that has been chosen for you, you were given your life so live that life as you should,

when something like this comes up what do you do,   do what ever or do you ask for help from the one who will lead you on the path that is for you.

When you give your life to who it belongs then you will be lead where you need to go.

Can i suggest  you leave this ? and ask / find who you are first, because these ?'s wont enter in to your life, there wont be a need to  know,

...noeleena...
Hi. from New Zealand, Im a woman of difference & intersex who is living life to the full.   we have 3 grown up kids and 11 grand kid's 6 boy's & 5 girl's,
Jos and i are still friends and  is very happy with her new life with someone.
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Del

Matthew 7: 1-20
[1] Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
[3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
[4] Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
[5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
[6] Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
[7] Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
[8] For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
[9] Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
[10] Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
[11] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
[12] Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

People misuse this scripture so often only using verses 1,2 and sometimes 3.

Read farther and you see the tree is known by the fruit. We know a pear tree for instance when we see the pear.
The fruit of the Spirit from within is manifested on the outside for all to see. Both believers and non believers.

As I said a few pages back Christians are commanded to warn others when they see them go against scripture. That is true love and obedience. Warning them as you would warn a traveler the bridge ahead is out or warning a blind person a car is coming when they attempt to cross the street.

When a Christian attempts to warn a person using scripture they are loving them enough to save their soul. Not judging them.

The person they warn either believes or rejects that warning.

It is the Lord who judges based on the warning and whether or not it is accepted or rejected.
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