How does one reconcile the pain that this is causing in one's SO? This is the worst thing I've ever felt. I've already ruined 2 attempts at a family in my life. Now a 3rd? I keep praying to God to make my brain just turn off. The thought of repressing again makes my body hurt physically. I now get to watch my relationship with the woman I love die in slow motion. The pain is getting to be too much for me to handle and I'm not sure I can keep it up anymore.

Quote from: Genzen on October 25, 2013, 09:23:47 AM
How does one reconcile the pain that this is causing in one's SO? This is the worst thing I've ever felt. I've already ruined 2 attempts at a family in my life. Now a 3rd? I keep praying to God to make my brain just turn off. The thought of repressing again makes my body hurt physically. I now get to watch my relationship with the woman I love die in slow motion. The pain is getting to be too much for me to handle and I'm not sure I can keep it up anymore.

Hi Genzen. Maddie here. I have been through that guilt and pain, as have many of your sisters and brothers here. First off, I know how much it can hurt when you are a loving and sensitive person, and you see pain in someone you love, which wasn't there before you came out, or started to transition, or took the latest step that they weren't ok with. It is so easy to take ownership and to say to yourself that you are destroying your relationship, or your family, or the other person. It is always important to ask ourselves if what we are doing is abusive or non-abusive. And is it honest, or dishonest. Often, because of the cards we've been dealt, plus the choices we made before we completely knew ourselves, being non-abusive and no longer dishonest is all we can do; there will be consequences that are consequences of the situation, that are no one's fault.

This is something that every person who is strong in empathy needs to learn, but it may take working with a therapist, and a lot of soul-searching and talking to supportive people, to get yourself to the point of really feeling it:

1. We are not responsible for the emotions and reactions of another person. We are responsible for our actions and words, but we cannot control anyone else, cannot control the future, and cannot control our relationships or how they develop and/or end, except by making the most honest and compassionate (for ourselves as well as for others) choices we can. The best we can do as flawed, ethical, humane human beings, is to strive to be honest and to be kind, with ourselves as well as others, and to allow others to have their reactions and emotions, to make their choices, and to truly be themselves as well, even if that results in them ending their relationship with us, or we or they needing the relationship to change as we change.

2. If we have spent our entire life discounting and minimizing our own pain and the importance or opportunity to reduce that pain, then we may need to take a step back, and learn to treat ourselves as well as we treat any other person going through what we are going through. It is easy to see the upset or hurt in the person we care about, but our duty as an ethical and compassionate person is to try the best we can to alleviate ALL human suffering, and when we ourselves are suffering terribly, we are responsible for doing what we can to alleviate our own suffering, while respecting the freedoms of others. If we have not taken care of our true selves in the past, making that choice to start can feel like a betrayal, but it is not. It is us taking steps to stop being our own abusive or neglectful parent, and start providing good care for our own soul.

3. It is possible to navigate this path while doing the least harm to others, but one must distinguish between pain and harm. Very often, as any doctor, surgeon, veterinarian, or school teacher will tell you, in order to prevent harm, you must cause pain. You minimize the pain wherever you can, but your first duty is to prevent harm. And quite often, a transgender person has been harming themselves for a long time by neglect of who they are, and stopping this harm and ending this neglect will cause pain in the short term. Quite often, by not being who we are, we are also causing harm to the other.

Truth is, if the other person would not, or will not, want to be with me if I was out to her and living my life authentically as me, then we do not belong together, and I am doing no one a favor by pretending it is otherwise.

Truth is, if the other person would, or will, want to be with me if I am out to her and living my life authentically as me, then by failing to do so I am depriving BOTH of us of the additional richness our relationship can have when both people are comfortable in their own skins and their own roles.

It is not my choice, responsibility, or power to decide for her, or to take away her pain, no matter how much I wish or pray that it was.

It is not my choice, responsibility, or power to take away the anger or disappointment she may genuinely feel when I tell her things she didn't know about me, that change how she sees our relationship and herself, past present and future. Her expectations are hers. Changed expectations are a cause of real pain, but give us the benefit of living in reality. Truth always has a cost. It is worth it.

And all that I have said does not excuse using our trans* status to browbeat, guilt trip, or control another person... it is just a fact, an important fact, a life changing fact, our status. It is not a license to be cruel or indifferent or unfeeling. But I can tell that you are a compassionate person, so this is hardly a danger. Taking on yourself the job of managing both hers and your own emotions and reactions, is a danger. Manipulation and controlling behaviors can be very tempting, when we think it will minimize our loved one's pain. Unfortunately, it usually backfires and makes the pain much worse later on. Being loving, true, humble, and very honest has much more healing power.

Maddie, you seem like such a sweetie. Thank you thank you sooooo much! Your words are priceless. I'm actually going to copy and paste them into my phone so that I can read them when I need to. I have had knight and shinning armor complex my whole life to the extent that I have spent nearly all my energies trying to fix and heal and take care of everyone else while neglecting myself. It's such a bad habit. But your note provides what seems like such a healthy mindset/balance to live by. You have made my day and lifted my spirits. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I couldn't add another word to what Maddie said, she's right on! Hang in there Genzen!

*hug*

I've been there, on a different path.  I denied myself even the acceptance of my trans status while i was married.  I guess you could say I was lucky that way.  I was afraid of hurting my family, my wife, my kids, my friends...

When the abuse finally got too bad and I was too far gone for anything but bold action, I had to get out.  It wasn't pretty.  My wife (at the time) could not see anything was wrong, blamed everything on me, got angry, threw things, attacked me physically and verbally (even hit me with a phonebook in the presence of our marriage counselor).  That's the point (while hiding in a hall waiting for her to leave) when I knew it was over. 

PS- Now I am out to my daughters, my mother, my girlfriend, my best friend, even my boss... everybody is happy that I am taking steps to be happy myself.  Turns out they all sensed the misery and depression I thought I was hiding.  Funny thing, life. 

It took two years to make the divorce official.  During that time, with lots of therapy, I began to learn that I was torturing myself needlessly with guilt.  It took a lot of work to see that; I truly believed I was a monster, deserving no happiness.  My lot in life, I thought, was to make life better for everyone else because I was damned anyway.

It takes time to accept something you know in your head and integrate it into your heart.  These words may not find a place in your heart for some time, but when you are ready they will:

You deserve to be happy as much as any other human being.  Your needs matter, too.  You need to tend to your needs, because nobody else knows them as well as you do.  The people who truly love you want you to be happy and free to be *you*.  The people who are only in love with the shell you painstakingly built and wore all your life... well, they never really loved *you* anyway.

If you need to transition, that is all there is to it.  It is a need.  Those who truly love you would rather have you on the planet than dead, or dead inside.

If you don't have one now, look for a therapist who has experience with Gender Dysphoria.  They can be worth their weight in gold.

*hug*  You can do this.  And you would be surprised how many women and men here have managed to transition and keep their spouses.  There are no guarantees, but love is an amazing thing when it is deep and true.

*Edited to fix unwarranted gender bias

PS- Now I am out to my mom, my daughters, my girlfriend, her kids, my best friend, even my boss.  Turns out they are happy I am taking steps toward my own happiness and fulfillment.  I guess they could see the misery and depression I *thought* I had kept well hidden.  Funny thing, life.

Quote from: Genzen on October 25, 2013, 09:23:47 AM
How does one reconcile the pain that this is causing in one's SO?

You are not causing the pain. The pain comes from her.

All you are doing is being yourself. It is not immoral, criminal, hostile, or anti-social. It is taking care of yourself.

If your spouse experiences pain by seeing you get the help you've needed for years, that's something you have no control over.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING YOU'VE CAUSED.

You didn't ask to be transgender.

You weren't the one that made transgender such a powerful condition as to be able to drive crazy those of us that ignore it.

You are doing what you need to do.

If your spouse leaves you, that's a decision she's making. It maybe what she has to do, and you will get over it, though it will be a long painful journey. We will be here to help you along the way.

But you are doing nothing you need to feel bad about.

Quote from: Genzen on October 25, 2013, 09:23:47 AM
The pain is getting to be too much for me to handle and I'm not sure I can keep it up anymore.

You are stronger than you know.

You have within you the strength you need to get through this. Don't stop looking for that strength. It's there if you look for it, I promise.

Would you expect your friends and family to be somebody that they are not, just to make you more comfortable? If not, then why would you think that it is reasonable to expect that of yourself?

Thank you everyone! I can feel warmth coming from inside me now. It is my feminine spirit coming to life! She is very very happy This board is great, and full of some wonderful people. **Hugs**

Nevermind, since my last post I was honest with her and how I feel and now she wants to give the baby up for adoption, yes she is pregnant. She can not live this life. I'm not sure about giving up the baby for adoption. I want to keep her. There was a point in time when we were dating and she promised me support if I ever needed to transition. I guess she didn't realize how she would feel about it in reality.

*hug*

I'm sorry she's taking it that way, Genzen.

There are going to be *lots* of ups and downs.  As the biological "father" of this baby, I believe in most countries in the world you will have a say in whether you keep it or it goes up for adoption; perhaps that is one silver lining.

Also remember that the lady in your life has just suffered a shock.  We humans react badly when confronted with surprising things, and often change our minds when we have some time to reflect.  Perhaps, like many on these forums, you two will find a way forward.

If that does not work out, single motherhood is a difficult path, but you could very well be the only mother the baby ever knows.  This is something that most trans women will never have the opportunity to experience.

*hug*

Things do get better... eventually.  It's important to remember that when stuff gets this hard.

We all make mistakes... as the Dalek said while climbing off the dustbin!

The only unforgiveable error is the one that someone keeps on making and refuses to learn the lesson from. So don't beat yourself up, instead learn and move on.

The lesson here is that you need to be yourself BEFORE you can truly offer yourself to others. If you don't first realise your own truth, then anything you might offer to another is offered on the basis of falsehood because you aren't presenting them with an honest choice.

Most cis people simply do NOT get into a relationship expecting their partner to change gender - heck even I don't and I've been closer to gender change than most. In fact it is so far off the ruddy scale for 99% of the population that they will honestly believe you could be a space alien before they will consider that you could be the opposite gender to the one they think they see!

So if you aren't that person - don't keep pretending to be them - be honest with yourself - become the person you want - then form a relationship on that basis. Apart from anything else, you will be happier.

EDIT - oh and yes I did read that she was aware - trouble is - there is hearing about something and then there is it actually happening.

One is theoretical and easy to ignore on the basis that "it will never actually happen". The other is horribly real and impossible to avoid.

Quote from: Genzen on October 25, 2013, 04:56:32 PM
Nevermind, since my last post I was honest with her and how I feel and now she wants to give the baby up for adoption, yes she is pregnant. She can not live this life. I'm not sure about giving up the baby for adoption. I want to keep her. There was a point in time when we were dating and she promised me support if I ever needed to transition. I guess she didn't realize how she would feel about it in reality.

Stand strong, more impending drama and emotional manipulation coming soon! 

Always listen to Shan.

Ahhhh  the dreaded "You're not like other guys...."  Gotta love it

I've beaten myself up plenty over what I've done to my ex's. Being open and honest up front, or not, did not change the end result. My current wife, or 30+ years, known from day 1 about my TG tendencies and has always been somewhat supportive. Yet even that made no difference a few years back when I got to the point of needing to really confront the trans beast. My main concern has always been about what this is doing to her. After all, I am kicking over the table, changing the rules, betrayed her, etc.. It's a long list for any spouse.

Fortunately, my wife, like myself, values the others happiness above our own. She didn't want to see me "hanging from the rafter" (an apocryphal story we learned of at a garage sale).  A lot of tears have been shed by us both over the past few years. It takes a lot of faith plus work by both parties to keep the love alive, plus time to heal.

Quote from: JoanneB on October 26, 2013, 08:59:36 PM
Ahhhh  the dreaded "You're not like other guys...."  Gotta love it

I've beaten myself up plenty over what I've done to my ex's. Being open and honest up front, or not, did not change the end result. My current wife, or 30+ years, known from day 1 about my TG tendencies and has always been somewhat supportive. Yet even that made no difference a few years back when I got to the point of needing to really confront the trans beast. My main concern has always been about what this is doing to her. After all, I am kicking over the table, changing the rules, betrayed her, etc.. It's a long list for any spouse.

Fortunately, my wife, like myself, values the others happiness above our own. She didn't want to see me "hanging from the rafter" (an apocryphal story we learned of at a garage sale).  A lot of tears have been shed by us both over the past few years. It takes a lot of faith plus work by both parties to keep the love alive, plus time to heal.

Allow me to say amen to that and good work Joanne! 

What Maddie wrote wrote was both inspirational and beautiful. There is simply nothing more to be added to it. Thank you for putting that out there.

My wife and I are separating after 26 years of marriage. We are soul mates and our separation has shocked everyone that's aware of it (although no one yet knows the real reason behind it). During the process she has vacillated between seeming to understand whats going on with me and viciously blaming me for all of this and for what this is doing to our kids.

It's a hard indictment to take and I have not been doing very good with it at all. Some old self-destructive habits that I thought I'd gotten rid of have recently popped back up in my life as a result of the guilt that she has put on me (or that i've allowed her to put on me).

Yesterday I had an appointment with my therapist and I laid all of this out for her. She helped me to straighten out my thinking a bit. I'm better today but I'm still not back to 100%. It's going to be very hard to have the mental wherewithal to get up and go to work tomorrow. I badly need to take some time off and find a place of peace and solitude to heal myself mentally but that's not possible right now.

Its a long, hard road in front of me. I hear that there are good things at the end of the journey but I just can't see them right now.

Thanks again for all the wonderful feedback! I couldn't have gotten through that day without your support. She has come around and understands me now. While there's bound to be plenty of difficult days ahead and no clear path forward at least we have maintained our love for one another. It's like a great weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I wish others the best in regards to these types of circumstances. There may be hope after all.

Quote from: Genzen on October 29, 2013, 07:29:49 PM
Thanks again for all the wonderful feedback! I couldn't have gotten through that day without your support. She has come around and understands me now. While there's bound to be plenty of difficult days ahead and no clear path forward at least we have maintained our love for one another. It's like a great weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I wish others the best in regards to these types of circumstances. There may be hope after all.

So glad you are both doing better, Genzen, and glad that I and my Susans sisters could help you a little bit on your worst day. Best wishes to you and your loved ones in this challenging journey. Keep being kind to yourself even on the dark days.

Quote from: Eva Marie on October 27, 2013, 11:12:55 AM
I badly need to take some time off and find a place of peace and solitude to heal myself mentally but that's not possible right now.

Its a long, hard road in front of me. I hear that there are good things at the end of the journey but I just can't see them right now.

My heart goes out to you Eva Marie. It does get better, but these birth pains of a new self can be intense, and even those who love us don't always understand. May you and all your loved ones find understanding and healing.
-Maddie

I remember my first meeting with my psychiatrist.

'Please is there a way that you can make me into a man?'

His reply?  "I'm sorry, there is no way to change your gender" "But I can help you to be the woman you are"

No one can understand but we who were born this way. Sadly that includes those we love and hope to stay with.

In the end we have to be true to us. Just like everyone else.