It wasn't all that long ago when the same type of people were at the table saying black folk should not have the right to use the same restrooms as their children!

Here in Northern California there is popular, loudmouth church leader who is trying to push this turnaround thru...makes me sick

Thank you Miss Maid!

Quote from: Michelle G on October 27, 2013, 03:09:32 PM
It wasn't all that long ago when the same type of people were at the table saying black folk should not have the right to use the same restrooms as their children!

Here in Northern California there is popular, loudmouth church leader who is trying to push this turnaround thru...makes me sick

Thank you Miss Maid!

Sad thing it was a black guy at the table. He said it's not the same as racial equality because you can't change what race you are. We've all heard that one and the bottom line is they see us as choosing to be this way.

grrrrr! 

Its NOT a choice! but the majority of people just don't understand.

The way I see it is it would be far more traumatic for a trans girl or boy to use the "opposite" restroom of their genders than it would be for them to use a gender matching restroom.

And these lunatics think that every school will have 100 or so trans kids with this ruling, when in reality they might have only 1 or 2 kids in the whole district.

grrrr again!

Pure ignorance driven usually by religion.. like we chose to be trans.... its not a choice.
Why I am an agnostic now..
Why are they not concerned about children that are trans.. that need compassion..let alone adult trans individuals...
People are driven by their fears of what they do not understand and can be fueled by their own insecurities.

This is why we need laws to protect people from people.. sad it has to be that way but so true..
Carrie

One problem is that I think there's a differentiation in a lot of folks' minds. Being transgendered means something different to them than it does to us. Or... well... me, at any rate. To me it's something I realise within myself. A state of awareness and understanding. An acceptance for the burning need for change and the need to undergo a process to affect that change. It's a means to an end. The end being to live my life as myself. Outside and inside in harmony.

Whereas to a lot of people it's the steps taken within that process of change. The process itself. That's where the idea of choice comes in. They see only the "what", but not the "why". The most basic understanding of someone being capable of feeling like something different to the bits which came attached at birth just doesn't enter into it. People seem to want to ban rights for transgendered people because of a failure to accept the idea that one could be any other gender than what anatomy suggests. It seems to be entirely physical with little or no regard for the mental. There appears to be a fundamental difference of thought pattern which conflicts the misinformed view of "You're <this gender> trying to go through life as <that gender>" with the reality of "You're <that gender> trying to be themselves."

Maybe if more folks could understand that being transgendered isn't a simply a process, it's a complex state of emotional awareness and self-awareness which facilitates that process, then the argument of choice wouldn't be so quickly adopted. What a lot of folks seem to be attempting to do is ban the symptoms rather than understanding the cause. To baulk at change, but failing to even try and grasp the concept of why it's necessary.

Sadly, many people don't even want to attempt to.

I applaud your actions, Jenn.

My dad gave me a hard time today for doing what i did because he was afraid I could be hurt.

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 27, 2013, 10:56:20 PMMy dad gave me a hard time today for doing what i did because he was afraid I could be hurt.

On the plus side, he cares for your safety, that's something.

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 27, 2013, 10:56:20 PM
My dad gave me a hard time today for doing what i did because he was afraid I could be hurt.

You were hurt, hon. By people's ignorance, intolerance and insensitivity. And that's exactly why you did what you did.

If there were more people like you in the world, it might be a better place for everyone.

Like Willow said, concern for your safety is a sign that your dad cares for you, so don't be too hard on him in return. Just remember, you did something incredibly noble and courageous. You took a stand. Something for which many, many people are immensely proud of you.

The sad thing is that these cowards use innocent children to play on peoples fears. Why not be real and say what you really feel?? You don't want us using correct restrooms because you don't wanna pee next to a freak. I like my bigots straight up with no filter. People like this are fighting a loosing battle. Things are changing at a fast pace and it can't be undone.

What burns me up is that these creeps don't know a single trans person. Not one yet they act as if they have us "Figured out" enough to predict what we will or won't do. If some perv or sex offender is going to do something in a restroom they aren't coming as a TS. They're going to blend in so they do get caught.

Quote from: Janae on October 28, 2013, 03:17:59 AM
The sad thing is that these cowards use innocent children to play on peoples fears. Why not be real and say what you really feel?? You don't want us using correct restrooms because you don't wanna pee next to a freak. I like my bigots straight up with no filter. People like this are fighting a loosing battle. Things are changing at a fast pace and it can't be undone.

What burns me up is that these creeps don't know a single trans person. Not one yet they act as if they have us "Figured out" enough to predict what we will or won't do. If some perv or sex offender is going to do something in a restroom they aren't coming as a TS. They're going to blend in so they do get caught.

They have to use children as the fulcrum of their argument because it's the only way to be taken seriously and get a reasonable person to go to their side. Without "think of the children!" their argument is:

• Transgender people are going to spend thousands of hours and dollars on therapy, medication, surgeries... all so they can peek on me in the bathroom...
• Because I'm that special, and because all transgendered people have x-ray and laser eyes so they can see through the stall

The only time I see another girl in the ladies room is when I'm washing my hands or when I'm fixing my makeup... I have never seen anyone peek over the door,  but I've only been there for a short while.

Amazing strength you showed, I would have brimmed with tears turned around and fled the scene. Then I would have gone home locked the doors and stuffed myself full of food and alcohol until my boyfriend had the unenviable task of shaking me out of my depression!

Quote from: Sephirah on October 27, 2013, 11:18:50 PM
You were hurt, hon. By people's ignorance, intolerance and insensitivity. And that's exactly why you did what you did.

If there were more people like you in the world, it might be a better place for everyone.

Like Willow said, concern for your safety is a sign that your dad cares for you, so don't be too hard on him in return. Just remember, you did something incredibly noble and courageous. You took a stand. Something for which many, many people are immensely proud of you.

Hear, hear! You were a true heroine, Maid ... just don't go doing what your namesake did and getting yourself burned at the stake! Or, at least, getting yourself hurt by the ignorant, mean-minded bigots you are brave enough to oppose ... The world needs people with your courage and strength to be alive and kicking against the injustices we all face.

I'd bet fifty bucks that when the guy who was running the petition got home, that he looked at the raunchiest transgender porn.  Guys like him more often than not have deep self hatred.  Wouldn't surprise me if he had trans  feelings himself

See Ted Haggard as an example of self righteous projection

You know I don't ever give this any though anymore since I am done with the transition process. Strangely I am probably going to sound like I am on the opposite side here.

Think I am going to pose this question to you all. Would it be reasonable for a dude to put on a wig and go hang out in the womens bathroom? If he was called on it he just claimed he was trans something.......

I can say with certainty if this scenario happened to me and I was in the bathroom and a dude with a wig was in there I would not be happy.

May I suggest to you that a more reasonable approach to getting the rights you want would be to compromise. What do I mean? Well I tell you what anyone using a womans restroom perhaps should have at the very least a name that is female.....I mean a legal name..... How about that?
If the trans community fought for that I bet the normal population would be more amicable to law changes.

On the other hand gals like me just did what we had to do and didn't give laws much though..........it is ironic when someone has confidence and shows it the world leaves them alone.

Katie

I have seen a number of mixed bathrooms in the UK, this would cure everything! Sinks/Mirrors/Dryers are in the common area, cubicles are private and you can't peek into them.

It sounds hellish weird but you adjust to it quickly.

Well to answer you questions. Someone that has changed their name legally is an indication to the world (if challenged) that they are actually in the process of transitioning.

Now you mentioned some other scenarios and hey if you and others think you can convince the general world that that the laws should be changed to include anyone trans then be my guest. I am guessing you will win the lottery before you accomplish this one.

Katie

Give up? No. As I suggested I think if people fought for laws that had a compromise aspect to them the general population would be more amicable to those laws passing.

As I said it is totally ok not to agree with me..... a lot of people don't agree with me. I can even give examples..... take organized religion. It is and has been on a decline for years in America because they have not compromised their positions. That means they have not adapted to the fact that people today are less likely to follow their points of view. Perhaps people today have better bullcrap meters that go off when it comes to organized religion.

By the way the scenario I just mentioned is helpful to the trans community, less religious people the less they can influence society.

But that's an example of a group that does not compromise.

You also asked me if I am comfortable I stop fighting. Well I have nothing to fight for, I am a woman I use the womens bathrooms. I have since the day I began transitioning and never had a problem. What is it that I would fight for? Or as a voter what would I vote for? What law would I vote for when I have the same rights as any other woman? Aside from my states definition of marriage which the gay people are working on at this moment and I have no desire to get married anyways.....

Really? This upset you? There will always be those that don't understand, whose hearts are filled with hate, self loathing, and anger. It's a fool with a cardboard table and hand lettered sign. Tomorrow he'll be on another street corner with a sign warning us that the end is coming.

Be strong.

Quote from: DrZoey on October 28, 2013, 10:59:03 AM
Really? This upset you? There will always be those that don't understand, whose hearts are filled with hate, self loathing, and anger. It's a fool with a cardboard table and hand lettered sign. Tomorrow he'll be on another street corner with a sign warning us that the end is coming.

Be strong.

Wait a min here. For a layperson to say no to transgender laws is not necessarily hatred. As a matter of fact the way you put it makes you sound as hard lined as the opposing perspective.
As a woman I have serious reservations with a dude in a wig in the womens bathrooms or locker rooms come to think of it. If your suggesting this has something to do with haltered your wrong.

The world is filled with some dam creepy and bad people. People that prey on others as a matter of fact. When we go to the bathroom we are at the most vulnerable situation we can face and it is not wrong for anyone to want to feel safe in this situation.

Again if you take the stance you did I think your no different than to opposite perspective.

Katie

I think that the confusion arises (simplifying) from the fact that it is not certain
if the bathroom is for FEMALES or WOMEN.

If the bathroom is for Females then it is 100% certain that ONLY females can enter,
so XX genetically females, OR fully transitioned females (with ID changed).

BUT, the curious thing is that in that bathroom could enter also TransMEN who
genetically are females but they are taking T from a long time and the PASS as
men... ironically, yes? Because they have not changed the ID.

If the bathroom is for Women than anyone who identifies as a woman could enter,
regardless of her state in transition (I could also enter, also without HRT).

In that bathroom of course TransMen could not enter, because they do not identify
as a woman.


...

summarizing... if the bathroom is for females, then MTFs cannot enter, unless they
are completely Female (at least for the State)... regardless of their "passing" state...
but FTMs could enter, even if they pass as male ( Funny...), if they have not yet
changed ID.

If the bathroom is for women then anyone (also a crossdresser) who, in that moment,
identifies himself (HIM because he is a CD, he does not intend to transition),
as a woman, can enter.

complicated...