I'm new to the forums, and I'm hoping to find some advice here; I've been in transition for about two years now, but I've never bothered until now to get onto the forums.  No time like the present I suppose!  I'm finally at that point where I'm ready to go through with a surgical transition; it's been a bit difficult (Most therapists fall suddenly quiet when the phrase "genderqueer transsexual" comes up  ) I'v finally managed to get the notorious letter.  I'm still working out the logistics of everything, paying for FFS is impossible as a student even with the great insurance I have...but that's another issue!  My only other concern is who I want doing my bottom surgery, which brings me to my issue:

I won't go into my life's story, but for me, penetration is something I simply can't do.  Some things leave lasting scars; and even after all this time, it's still something that makes me incredibly uncomfortable.  I really don't think that this should be grounds to deny me surgery, but I feel as if I'm in a real bind-I understand fully how important dilation is.  If I won't be using it for penetrative sex anyways, will not being able to dilate even be a problem?  I've done all the research I can, but this isn't an issue that I've heard anyone else discussing, for pretty obvious reasons.  I've heard so called "cosmetic procedures" talked about in a pretty negative light, but I'm also wondering if that might be an option (and who still does them?)  I know, it's not the real thing but I'll most likely be paying for it, so I can't see anything that wrong with a procedure that doesn't give any depth.  Anyhow, sorry for going so long but I've had a lot on my mind.  I'd appreciate any advice...thanks!

I suggest you pm a few surgeons. Have you considered an orchi? Paying $20K for a full revision which you will not maintain seems to be a rather excessive and invasive procedure!

Brassard will do what you want.

Yes, Brassard will do that. You get full sensation and aesthetics, but no vaginal cavity to speak of. Incidentally, a friend of mine wished she'd gone with that option - it was listed as a choice on his paperwork, so you can tell ONLY the surgeon that's what you want, if you prefer not to tip off therapists etc. - and she was warned that dilation is required for a minimum of six months to avoid risk of infection and complications. So if you cannot bear to dilate at all... you're really better off not having the vagina installed.

Not to mention, for what this costs, you deserve to get precisely the body configuration you want!

You shouldn't worry so much.  You should follow what makes you happy.  No surgeon could reasonably refuse you surgery for the reasons you said.  I think there are quite a few surgeons who can give cosmetic operations.  I believe Mr Bellringer, in London, UK does cosmetic GRS.  You may need to check this.  Also I have heard that Dr Bowers in USA does it too.  Again, check this though, please.  Best of luck!

What they said. A lot of surgeons do "cosmetic" (vulva and clitoris only) genital surgery if you ask and have the referral letters. Not sure if any of them offer discounts because of the reduced amount of time in the operating theatre.

Quote from: boddi on October 28, 2013, 07:19:59 PM
You shouldn't worry so much.  You should follow what makes you happy.  No surgeon could reasonably refuse you surgery for the reasons you said.  I think there are quite a few surgeons who can give cosmetic operations.  I believe Mr Bellringer, in London, UK does cosmetic GRS.  You may need to check this.  Also I have heard that Dr Bowers in USA does it too.  Again, check this though, please.  Best of luck!

Your right boddi, Mr Bellringer does offer cosmetic operations, I had that option but I opted for vaginoplasty with clitoris 

I guess there is no need to say that if you can work on this in any other way it is probably a good thing, but if you have tried to resolve those issues with experiences and memories and cannot get over it anytime now or ever, I can imagine that cosmetic procedures will be fine. Be sure to get one that retains sensation if you want that! Good luck.

Hi andro....26,

If you'll please pardon my intrusion in the matter, I believe there is a serious and fundamental floor in your reasoning. Please do not take it personally. It is a typical mistake made when ALL options haven't been considered.

It is a known medical fact, the plasticity of the brain is such that serious phobias and disturbances CAN be corrected. Knowing and understanding this fact, in conjunction with the knowledge of any surgery you consider is completely non reversible, it must stand to reason to with hold from any decision until such options have been fully canvassed.

Secondly, you are making judgements based on assumption. And I can pretty well guarantee you could ask as many post operative women as you like, the question. "Did you 100% know, pre-operatively, how it would feel to be post-op? The answer is unequivocally, No!

It's a bit like living in the centre of Australia and wanting to know, what it wold be like to live on a beach and swim in the ocean. There is absolutely no physical or psychological events in the centre of Aust. that could prepare me for the experience of living on a beach and swimming in the ocean. I have to travel thousands of kilometres to experience the power of the ocean, before I fully understand it's dimension.

The power of congruency of mind and body is never to be underestimated. In my humble opinion, FFS should be your absolute last consideration

Love
Catherine

Catherine : Maybe it's that I have a friend who is suicidal (literally, as in has been inpatient under suicide watch over the issue) who gave in to pressure not to get the cosmetic version and has ended up with dissociation and panic attacks from dilation... but I don't think it's a good idea to second-guess someone who is pretty sure of what she wants. Maybe she's wrong, but if so, there ARE methods by which she could still have a vaginal cavity created afterward (expensive, more invasive, perhaps less desirable methods, but still), whereas if she goes through with the vagina and cannot maintain it she risks death by either physical or mental complications. Not to mention that that same friend says her dysphoria is *worse* now than it was with a penis, and dilation is the biggest trigger.

As a post-op I do agree that there's just no way to envision what it feels like, beforehand. But it's also true that if I knew I had major issues with the *idea* of penetration - not the sensations, the actual thought - it likely would have carried over into this state. In fact, dilation is actually quite a bit "worse" in that regard than I expected (obviously I'm pleased with what I chose for my body and the maintenance is something I'm willing to do, but the mess/inconvenience/sensations/etc. are more extreme than I'd been able to imagine as the date approached).

Jenna,
Thank you. You raised some very valid points. I understand and appreciate your introspection.

Huggs
Catherine

Catherine - Thanks. Sorry if I got carried away, too; I'm still kind of upset worrying about my friend (who is not doing so well).

I guess we have to assume that attempts have been made to get over presumably horrible memories and experiences in conjunction with being penetrated. I think it is nothing anyone wished for their enemies even. Such events leave mental scars that can be hard to heal but i want to put in a thought. If you will be able to heal them, and i hope you have not given up on that, you may find that you are missing something. What i want to say is that i believe that the last part of the healing process may only be possible by doing what you have come to despise in a positive way, even though this may be unthinkable for you right now. If you do not allow this option, healing may be a bit harder to complete once you are there. Of course there is a brick on the road there and that is dilation itself. It is not that healing event and it has to be done before you get to that event. If you could get far enough in healing that you could do this as long as you regard it as a purely medical procedure, i believe that would be worth it. If that needs a delay maybe that is still worth it. If all of the above does not apply , i wonder if a no cavity surgery can get an "upgrade" with colonovaginoplasty later. There are members in this forum that looked into no cavity srs procedures, if there is no reply to this thread, i will try to point someone to tjis thread via the chat.

Hi anjaq,

You raised some every worthwhile comments. Carrying on from what you said about healing, often the major breakthrough is achieved when someone stands in the face or the event of their perpertrators and demonstrates they are not effected by the atrocity.

I recently met a person who was essentially left for dead considering the injuries sustained. After a long convalesce and rehabilitation, several health professionals strongly advised against going back to their former career, due to potential repercussions of flashbacks. That person realised if thy took that path, the perpertrators won. They disregarded that "professional" advice, and returned, triumphant and victorious. That person is now far stronger, more resilient, and a far greater person of integrity and character than ever before.

One other major point. Vaginal penetration is completely different to unsolicited anal penetration.

With respect & Huggs
Catherine

Caterine, I totally agree there.
Now we are maybe leaning out a bit too far now, as we are working on assumptions about the OP, so I will not go further without that person replying again in this thread and commenting, but you raised a point that I was thinking about as well, but refrained from saying as it is maybe too specific:

Quote from: Catherine Sarah on October 30, 2013, 08:15:45 PM
One other major point. Vaginal penetration is completely different to unsolicited anal penetration.

I have not experienced major trauma, so I cannot say how this translates to it, but I once did extreme snowboarding (pre-transition). One day I fell and suffered major injuries (luckily no head trauma). I had also a choice after that - never go on a mountain again with a snowboard or do it and face my fears. I did the latter and now have a lot of fun snowboarding and even did job part time as a snowboard instructor for some years. As I said, this is a minor incident in comparison

But I think that your advice is spot on. I believe that it is very much needed to stay away from what is hurtful for a time - ,dissassociation has its place in healing, one first has to start the healing process and do a lot of work towards it. At some point however in healing I believe, it is - needed (or desireable) - to encounter what once was hurtful. When healing is at that stage, that encounter will probably still be a bit like a confrontation as well, but it is different. And then healing can continue with inclusion of these encounters. If these encounters could be are something that would even be enjoyable if the hurt did not happen, healing can work towards that it once more becomes so. The thing is that I believe that healing can only continue beyond a certain point if that encounter is allowed. Otherwise there can still be healing but it cannot be as complete. That is my own opinion of course, so take it with care and consideration, especially in the light of not knowing what the story of the OP is, I tried to express it as generally as I can.

Everyone, thank you so much for your responses, respect, and tactfulness; and while I seem to have come dangerously close to starting a flame war, that's nothing new.

A part of me wants to just say that I will make it past this.  At this point, I can say that it's more an an aversion than a trigger or a phobia.  It't not really that I can't, it's just that doing it every day for the rest of my life isn't something I want to be doing.  Dilation still seems very unpleasant though-not that I have any faith in nature or biology as being supreme, but if your body is treating something as a wound, then sticking anything in it will hurt, a lot, not to mention the obscene time commitment.  I've though about both anatomies and how I'd use them, and not having more than an inch or two of depth really won't make that huge a difference-why bother to maintain  such great depth if you're never going to use it?  In any event sensation matters more than anything anyways.  It's good to know that I have either option once I finally find the money.  Thank you all so much for the advice and the kind words.

One more thing: Catherine Sarah, while I realize that what I'm talking about might not be right for you, these are things that could help me immensely.  While your face may not be a cause of distress, mine is; believe it or not, people spend more time looking at my face than my genitalia.  Passing happens to be important to me-I'm more than a bit sick of being kicked out of bathrooms.  I haven't had the experiences that you have, and you haven't walked in my shoes, so both of us have no right to tell the other what would be the "correct" course of action.  If I choose to have FFS, or I choose to have a cosmetic or semi-cosmetic vaginoplasty, this is my choice to make, and be sure that I've thought my way through all of this.  I've given as much thought  to my goals as you have-can we please respect each other's judgement?  I don't want to sound angry, I'm not, but what you're saying reminds me a bit of my  mother  .  Thanks for the input though-I'll certainly consider it. 

Anyways, thanks to all of you.  This isn't an easy thing for me to talk about and I'm grateful for your support.  At the end of the day, it all comes down to what we choose: if we have the option to choose what our body looks like, why should we put such an emphasis on factory standard?  Whatever; it's been a long road for me, and I appreciate all of this.

Hi androgynouspainter26,

Please accept my unreserved and humble apology if any of my comments have caused you concern, anxiety or upset of any type. It was not my intent, nor desire to create any malice of any description, or to present an over bearing nature or any type.

With respect
Catherine 

I am not at all offended-really, I'm probably the least sensitive person you'll meet.  I'm a passionate writer, and I welcome an exchange of ideas-so please stop apologizing and start criticizing, because one day soon you'll probably be right. 

androgynouspainter26,

Just remember there is no one size fits all or you must do what others have done. You need to do what makes you happy.

As with anything in life you need to weigh all the options. Its about settling your mind not making more stress.

Lots of luck and yes i know most of the top surgeons do the cosmetic version being it is part of the WPATH standards.

Izzy