I never liked these types of people and my list grows ever longer each year, but I always have to concede that this is a free country and even the worst have their right to think and express how they feel until the thought police finally take over and everyone looks, acts, thinks and feels exactly alike, wouldn't that be an ugly world? You can tell I've been slogging through George Orwell's 1984, it's very depressing!

Legal or not, the guy is a douche bag.  If i was there, i don't think I'd be as honorable as maid.  I'd steal his list and flick him off.  There is obviously no way of swaying his way of thinking.  That's what fundamentalism does to people. Unshakable resolve

Quote from: Hideyoshi on October 28, 2013, 12:27:28 PM
Legal or not, the guy is a douche bag.  If i was there, i don't think I'd be as honorable as maid.  I'd steal his list and flick him off.  There is obviously no way of swaying his way of thinking.  That's what fundamentalism does to people. Unshakable resolve

The trouble with human nature is that you're never going to get everyone to like you or accept you or think like you and legally they don't have to in a free country. So everybody just get over it, live and let live and be a good example for others.

This is why i do not agree with opposing laws.What i mean is,everyone has an opinion *personal view* and everyone is welcome to it.For example if one said *i personally feel we shouldnt have went to the moon* then another can agree or disagree but say *your opinion is noted and thank you for it* but when it comes to passing any form of law,there should never be a personal opinion behind it.The state/country/world,should be ran with ALL in mind and not one.This just simply encourages forcing anothers opinion onto someone else AND it being okay.Now if one says *i personally dont want my kids in the bathroom with other kids who are different* (which i think is f***ing sick because,whose being perverted? the kids or the parents having some gross sexual images?) anyway,then that is on them but as far as adults go,how many public toilets are there in a park setting? depending about 4 different buildings with 4 stalls each inside.So for an adult to tell another adult (who mind you most likely has already been through therapy and diagnosed with GID) that they cant use ANY of them? because there *MIGHT* be a cis person in one of them that disagrees due to religion/personal views and so on.I myself said *i personally would rather piss behind a tree then make someone *feel* they are *threatened* and my therapist said off the record *wow..thats really respectful of you,that you would do that for the sake of someone else..* i shouldnt *have* to do that,like an animal.I mean im not worried about what mofo might do to me in either bathroom,because i would literally rip them apart (aside from packing) i would be one of those *huh oh..we picked the wrong target today* kind of people but it shows how personal opinion can alter anothers path/life and very existence.and most of the people with these opinions (the more it succeeds) it turns to outright hate.Sure let them openly express their opinion but a persons life is NOT up for vote and their opinions should never be forced onto another.They want sigs? then they can walk door to door,take it to a personal level and NOT sitting on the side of the street for the very people they are voting down,to see.

I should point out another aspect of the whole trans rights laws thing.

When people want to pass laws for this or that they have to stand up and fight for them...........


Aside from text on the internet I would say there are very few people fighting for trans laws. My suspicion is that the overwhelming majority of the trans people out there never leave their houses, have no desire to stand up and fight for something and risk exposure. ECT. ECt.

Im sorry but how the heck can anyone expect society accept and pass laws for a group of people that are almost never seen fighting for the very thing they talk about. As a matter of fact I really think it is just talk because if there is one thing I learned in life there are those that do and those that don't. The donts always outweight the dos and strangly the donts sit around and complain about something they aren't willing to fight for.
I have had people throw this back at me and ask why I don't fight. My response is I did fight for my rights and I went through the hell to earn them. I now have the same rights as any other woman. What is there for me to fight for?

Katie

Quote from: Katie on October 28, 2013, 10:13:21 AM
Well to answer you questions. Someone that has changed their name legally is an indication to the world (if challenged) that they are actually in the process of transitioning.

Now you mentioned some other scenarios and hey if you and others think you can convince the general world that that the laws should be changed to include anyone trans then be my guest. I am guessing you will win the lottery before you accomplish this one.

Katie

You seem to have a really defeatist attitude.

This law pertains to children, not adults. They can't decide to legally change their names, its up to their parents at that point. These children suffer every day and don't have a vote or a voice in how they are treated. You may have the selfish attitude of not giving a damn about the other trans people who are still fighting to be recognized, but I actually care about not seeing others like me suffer like I have.

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 28, 2013, 02:17:09 PM
You seem to have a really defeatist attitude.

This law pertains to children, not adults. They can't decide to legally change their names, its up to their parents at that point. These children suffer every day and don't have a vote or a voice in how they are treated. You may have the selfish attitude of not giving a damn about the other trans people who are still fighting to be recognized, but I actually care about not seeing others like me suffer like I have.

For the sake of this discussion I take the stance of the general public. I further reiterate that since I am aware of very few trans people that ever fight for rights in the eyes of the world I submit to you that it must not be that big of an issue.......

As I said if it was that big of an issue I would think the trans community would be standing up and in the news fighting for these rights they wish to have. Strange thing is I never had any issues using the bathroom even prior to earning the rights I have. I just did what I had to do and I did it with confidence that said I belonged where I was. Nobody gave me a hard time. Come to think of it most of the post op girl I have known have the same sort of story. They stood up put their boots on and did whatever they had to do to be the person they became in the eyes of the world.

Katie

Quote from: Katie on October 28, 2013, 02:23:23 PM
I take the stance of the general public. I further reiterate that since I am aware of very few trans people that ever fight for rights in the eyes of the world I submit to you that it must not be that big of an issue.......

As I said if it was that big of an issue I would think the trans community would be standing up and in the news fighting for these rights they wish to have. Strange thing is I never had any issues using the bathroom even prior to earning the rights I have. I just did what I had to do and I did it with confidence that said I belonged where I was. Nobody gave me a hard time. Come to think of it most of the post op girl I have known have the same sort of story. They stood up put their boots on and did whatever they had to do to be the person they became in the eyes of the world.

Katie

It is an issue, there just isn't a lot of us. We make up less than 1% of the population. We cant assemble hordes and stage massive protests. Not to mention a lot of trans people are afraid to be outed. When our stories to make it to the headlines it's either because another one of us got killed for being trans or there's some rights issue going on. Just a couple weeks ago a 16 year old trans girl in Colorado got targeted with a fake news story claiming she was harassing girls in the bathroom. Now she's on suicide watch from all the negative attention and death threats.

Don't think because you're post op you're safe. You are still transgender not a bio woman and our enemies don't see you the way you see yourself and they still work against you regardless of how much of a woman you are in the eyes of the law.

Case in point

http://www.transadvocate.com/the-argument-against-your-transitioned-status.htm

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 28, 2013, 02:33:45 PM
It is an issue, there just isn't a lot of us. We make up less than 1% of the population. We cant assemble hordes and stage massive protests. Not to mention a lot of trans people are afraid to be outed. When our stories to make it to the headlines it's either because another one of us got killed for being trans or there's some rights issue going on. Just a couple weeks ago a 16 year old trans girl in Colorado got targeted with a fake news story claiming she was harassing girls in the bathroom. Now she's on suicide watch from all the negative attention and death threats.

Don't think because you're post op you're safe. You are still transgender not a bio woman and our enemies don't see you the way you see yourself and they still work against you regardless of how much of a woman you are in the eyes of the law.

Case in point

http://www.transadvocate.com/the-argument-against-your-transitioned-status.htm

Well I have not ever been given a hard time by anyone. I don't see anyone as what did you call it enemy. As I said earlier I stood up and fought for my rights myself and earned them. They were not given to me for nothing. I earned them. I don't live my life feeling like I am different than any other woman. You might think that forever I and any post op woman will suffer but in reality we for the most part carve a place out in society.

This is a very important discussion because the theme here is people wanting to effect change but then they don't fight for it. How can you expect society to accept any sort of change when the group wishing it does not stand up to fight for it. Now take gay marriage, gay people stood up and look at what is happening, slowly but surely they are effecting change. Last time I checked they make up a very small percentage of the population yet they are changing things.

If there is one very important thing I learned in life (and especially being trans) is that talk is cheap. So cheap that its often ignored. The only real thing that means anything is actual actions!

Katie

You are clearly blind if you think we don't fight.

Quote from: Katie on October 28, 2013, 02:23:23 PM
For the sake of this discussion I take the stance of the general public. I further reiterate that since I am aware of very few trans people that ever fight for rights in the eyes of the world I submit to you that it must not be that big of an issue.......

As I said if it was that big of an issue I would think the trans community would be standing up and in the news fighting for these rights they wish to have. Strange thing is I never had any issues using the bathroom even prior to earning the rights I have. I just did what I had to do and I did it with confidence that said I belonged where I was. Nobody gave me a hard time. Come to think of it most of the post op girl I have known have the same sort of story. They stood up put their boots on and did whatever they had to do to be the person they became in the eyes of the world.

Katie

How many african americans wanted to fight but didnt physically because of fear? its true that many dont come out into the open because of the lack of justice in the world.Many transwoman led home,only to be murdered and the law turns a blind eye.Beatings outside of a gay club,and they continue to get worse.People fight by voicing their rights everyday but a true transperson isnt out to make a statement by taking off their shirt,but to change opinions.A fight can be simply talking to family and giving them the truth behind the life of a transperson,a fight can be someone who stands outside of a law building with signs,a fight can be someone who takes the law into their own hands (which WOULD get any Transperson into trouble for sure) For me,im much more for the later as a person who is 100% fed up with the crimes but i would gladly rott in jail.Many cant and each fight is important like the others.like this OP,even if it was disheartening,it was a fight for the better though they handled it better then i would have.But it was STILL one.But the day WILL come when all will be forced to fight with more deadly means and we all must be prepared for the worst,doesnt mean we want it that way.Do you even know what sparked stonewall? even back then,the gay community didnt just *come out* screaming and fighting for rights.They spent YEARS in hiding,being controlled by police,killed,beaten and even unable to get within inchs of each other.One woman at stonewall *which was a controlled night club* screamed out as she was beaten and being dragged away to jail by a police officer.She yelled *help me!* which sparked rage by the rest who were (willingly) going along by hand cuffs.That is what sparked stonewall,one woman-just like one woman changed everything for the black community. dont disregard the Trans* community who is still in the stage of fear and oppression.

Quote from: DrZoey on October 28, 2013, 10:59:03 AM
Really? This upset you? There will always be those that don't understand, whose hearts are filled with hate, self loathing, and anger. It's a fool with a cardboard table and hand lettered sign. Tomorrow he'll be on another street corner with a sign warning us that the end is coming.

Be strong.

The unfortunate fact is that there are so many more of these "fools," they outnumber us.  Hatred is a strong force to have to combat.

I have been trying to rationally discuss the issue of the teen transgirl in Colorado, who was falsely accused of harassing other girls in the high school restroom, with "Christians" and other reader of National Review, Charisma News, etc.  Some of these people are thicker than bricks.  We will never reach them.  They will never have a change of heart.  But by fighting for our right to survive, we may influence the open-minded.

Katie, if you've never been given a hard time, good for you. But lots of people have been given awful times, can't afford surgeries, don't qualify for hormones, aren't passable, etc

I personally wouldn't care if a 'dude in a dress' were in a female bathroom. Hold each person to the basic standards of 'don't be a creeper' and I don't see the issue. We have laws for peeping tommery, harassment, and assault, so everybody just needs to chill out

I read about the  guy with the table and pen and say, "Oh well"

I read about hitting the guy with the pen and say "Idiot"

I read about burning the guys pen and  say "Idiot"

I read about pouring water on the guys pen and say "Idiot"

Is this how you want to be seen? Is this how you would like others to treat you?

Set up a table and collect pro-transgender signatures. That's how you win, not by childish blustering.

Quote from: Miss Bungle on October 28, 2013, 05:38:09 PM
You can call me an idiot all you want. If I had set up a table in opposition, I bet you $10 that I would get little to no signatures and scorned by everyone else.

I suppose that if you had a couple of the super hot gals from "You look fabulous darling" thread standing there with you, you'd get plenty of male and a few female signatures.

As far as petitions go, I've seen a lot come through the store, they leave them at the counter for people to read and sign.  The ones that oppose always gets more attention and signatures than ones that are for something.  People feel better being against stuff than they do being for something. I suppose it gives them more satisfaction to try and stop whatever it is than to advance an idea or regulation.

Quote from: of a sort on October 28, 2013, 05:56:00 PM
As far as petitions go, I've seen a lot come through the store, they leave them at the counter for people to read and sign.  The ones that oppose always gets more attention and signatures than ones that are for something.  People feel better being against stuff than they do being for something. I suppose it gives them more satisfaction to try and stop whatever it is than to advance an idea or regulation.

Good observation, excellent point!

Quote from: Miss Bungle on October 28, 2013, 05:38:09 PM
You can call me an idiot all you want. If I had set up a table in opposition, I bet you $10 that I would get little to no signatures and scorned by everyone else.

I didn't go back and make notes of who wrote what. Let's leave transgender out of it. Say you're collecting signatures for something and someone pours water/burns/knocks your Little League applications all over the ground.  You gonna be happy about that? Disagreeing with people is fine, laying hands on them isn't.

What do you stand to gain by assaulting the guy or wrecking his petition?

I don't have to think about it. I wouldn't even post in this thread, except the actions suggested by the so-called adults posting here are worse than anyone collecting signatures for any reason. Collecting signatures is legal. Assault isn't. Simple.