Has anyone had experience of being on spiro or other anti-androgen without being on estrogen?  It's been suggested to me that although I may not be put on estrogen because I already have a high risk of clotting, that it might be possible to have just anti-androgens to block testosterone.
What would be the likely effects of that?
tia, Louise

Usually, its not recommended long term (short term may be OK), unless you also use a low dose of estrogen because of osteoporosis risks.

Not all clotting risks are the same, and it also depends on admiistration means; patches have very low clotting risks since there's no first pass through the liver. A low dose patch plus an antoi-androgen would fit your bill.

Also, with an anti-androgen, a lower dose of estrogen can have an effect (and it would solve the osteoporosis risk).

Quote from: louise000 on July 03, 2007, 03:52:01 PM
Has anyone had experience of being on spiro or other anti-androgen without being on estrogen?  It's been suggested to me that although I may not be put on estrogen because I already have a high risk of clotting, that it might be possible to have just anti-androgens to block testosterone.
What would be the likely effects of that?
tia, Louise

Keira said it all; she's a trustworthy source.

When I began HRT nearly two years ago, I started with oral estradiol, dissolved under the tongue (sub-lingual administration). I was also taking Spiro at the time.

Then, back in....January, I had a TIA. This was directly attributable to the oral estrogen. So, my doctor and I discussed alternatives and we switched over to an injectable, which is much safer.

It's an option which might be worth considering.

I never took Spiro solely; it was a component part of the total HRT regimen. Spiro is a good product, but it proved to be nearly completely ineffective for me - and I was on an aggressive dose.

Quote from: Keira on July 03, 2007, 03:57:22 PM

Usually, its not recommended long term (short term may be OK), unless you also use a low dose of estrogen because of osteoporosis risks.

Not all clotting risks are the same, and it also depends on admiistration means; patches have very low clotting risks since there's no first pass through the liver. A low dose patch plus an antoi-androgen would fit your bill.

Also, with an anti-androgen, a lower dose of estrogen can have an effect (and it would solve the osteoporosis risk).

Thanks Keira, that's really cheered me up and given me some hope! At the end of the day I guess it'll be up to the "gatekeepers" as I've seen them called. I'm anxious not to put my general health in danger and am not advocating self-med but I can understand why some people go that road.
Best wishes and thanks, Louise

Posted on: July 04, 2007, 02:26:43 AM

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Quote from: Rhonda on July 03, 2007, 11:47:35 PM

Keira said it all; she's a trustworthy source.

When I began HRT nearly two years ago, I started with oral estradiol, dissolved under the tongue (sub-lingual administration). I was also taking Spiro at the time.

Then, back in....January, I had a TIA. This was directly attributable to the oral estrogen. So, my doctor and I discussed alternatives and we switched over to an injectable, which is much safer.

It's an option which might be worth considering.

I never took Spiro solely; it was a component part of the total HRT regimen. Spiro is a good product, but it proved to be nearly completely ineffective for me - and I was on an aggressive dose.

Yes, it's the risk of TIA or stroke which will worry the doctors, because I already have an increased risk of clotting due to atrial fibrillation (a heart arhythmia). Hope you are now fully recovered.
Best wishes and thanks, Louise.

I think in America they have anti - androgens in injection form which cannot be controlled if something goes wrong once you have had the injection. I take it in tablet form so you can stop as and when you like....I think they work quite well and I've been on them for many years.

Quote from: Berliegh on July 05, 2007, 02:57:50 AM
I think in America they have anti - androgens in injection form which cannot be controlled if something goes wrong once you have had the injection. I take it in tablet form so you can stop as and when you like....I think they work quite well and I've been on them for many years.

?

If you are referring to Depo-Provera, its use as an anti-androgen [for us] is from what I have observed, unheard of.

But for 'chemical castration' of sex offenders, this I have heard of.

Quote from: Berliegh on July 05, 2007, 02:57:50 AM
I think in America they have anti - androgens in injection form which cannot be controlled if something goes wrong once you have had the injection. I take it in tablet form so you can stop as and when you like....I think they work quite well and I've been on them for many years.

We take Spiro here in pill form.  The only injections that are done are those who do estrogen injections.  But the anti-androgens that TS take can be stopped at any time. 

Just to let everybody know.  Anti-androgens without estrogen = Andropause, which is nearly identical in some of the worst symptoms to menopause (hotflashes, osteoporosis).

i was on spiro for 3 months prior to E, it helps actually, lowed my t levels, and E had much stronger faster effects. tho that could be genetic, it did make me tired for a while, and veryrelaxed, and non sexual. although i started getting sweatting problems from it, so *shrugs* dunno.

Endocrinologist once told me "If you were only on androgen blocker with no estrogen, you would still grow breasts, because your adrenal glands naturally produce a little estrogen."

I'm skeptical.

Its not the adrenals that produce estrogen, its that some T is always aromatised to E (that's how men get E in their system). Fats are very good a transforming some T to E, thus the man breast :-) of overweight people (very low level though, so it more fat distribution there that's helped, not much breast structure is created).

I have never seen injectable Spiro, pill form is the only delivery I've seen. Now Depo is an injectable Androgen one that I get 6 times a year along with E every month I take Spiro and aldactone everyday, I am very pleased with my results

you wont grow breasts as such, you will gain fat in that area, and slight sensitivity, but there is unlikely to be significant growth, or gland development.

Quote from: rhonda13000 on July 05, 2007, 03:10:20 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on July 05, 2007, 02:57:50 AM
I think in America they have anti - androgens in injection form which cannot be controlled if something goes wrong once you have had the injection. I take it in tablet form so you can stop as and when you like....I think they work quite well and I've been on them for many years.

?

If you are referring to Depo-Provera, its use as an anti-androgen [for us] is from what I have observed, unheard of.

But for 'chemical castration' of sex offenders, this I have heard of.

Depo-Provera is not an anti - androgen. It's usually used as a birth control pill. Depo-Provera can be in pill or injection and contains progesterone.

I am on Cypretone acitate (androcur) which is an anti - androgen. Many people in the U.S take Spiro which is also an anti - androgen and it's usually injected. There is one anti - androgen in the U.K called Zoladex which is also injectable...

Quote from: Cindy Smith on July 06, 2007, 10:03:15 AM
every month I take Spiro and aldactone everyday, I am very pleased with my results

Spironolactone and aldactone are the same drug (Spironolactone is the generic form whereas aldactone is the brand name), just as tylenol and acetaminophen are.  They have the same chemical composition and are dispensed in the same milligram strength.

tink

Quote from: louise000  on July 03, 2007, 03:52:01 PM
Has anyone had experience of being on spiro or other anti-androgen without being on estrogen?  It's been suggested to me that although I may not be put on estrogen because I already have a high risk of clotting, that it might be possible to have just anti-androgens to block testosterone.
What would be the likely effects of that?
tia, Louise

@louise000 --I know it's been a while, but I'm hoping perhaps you might get this;  wondering what came of all this for you?? I am in a similar situation, where doctors don't want to prescribe estrogen. I'm currently on two antiandrogen drugs and seeking consultation elsewhere about taking transdermal estrogen. Did you have any effects just from the antiandrogens? Or did you eventually start estrogen? Progestins? I know