Seems as though there are two sides to the issue. I stated mine clearly and I agree with DawnL and I am in the exact same frame of mind as Morticia. I'm even on my second attempt.

Again for me it was not a choice anymore. I had to do something. Arguing why or why not seems to be a mute point. For those that feel it is still a choice, perhaps they just have not reached that level. For those that are TS, eventually you will run out of excuses. It is hard to see why there is no choice at the current point and state of mind you are at now, and until you realise you have to do something you will never understand those that say there is no choice. Just as I cannot understand those that have transitioned saying it is not what I think it will be, nor will it be that bad and I just need to have faith in the process. I feel like arguing with them all the time because I just cannot see the future and they are not me. I'm scared and that is what it boils down to. Fear.

Most people will never admit the truth, they will not be honest, and they will not open up and just say what is really holding them back. They will make up excuses to dodge the real issue blaming family, society, money, their jobs, or whatever else they can conjur up.

For some there may be a medical issue where they just cannot physically transition regardless of where their minds are at but those are far and few in between and to me, the only acceptable answer I will buy into.

I took many years to understand the choice/no choice issue. I did tests, read books, scoured the internet and weeded everything out until I ran out of options. There really is no choice in the end, and until you stop lying to yourself and stop lying to others and making up excuses, if you are TS, you will reach the same conclusion one day. Some just take longer than others. In the end that growing pain, that drive to transition will either drive you into maddness and you will either just accept it for what it is and deal with it, or die.

Until you reach that point, you simply do not know what you are arguing about, or again, your medical condition will not allow it and for those of you in that position I am truly sorry for you. But for you others, it is pure and simple. When I first joined this forum I was in the "Their is a choice camp". I argued until I was blue in the face with moderators, those that transitioned, my family, doctors, you name it. I cannot say at what point I crossed over, but in time my drive overwhelmed me and I finally realised there just was no other way. Not only is it stupid to keep fighting it, you are just delaying the inevitable if you are TS.

Go ahead and get mad at me, quote me and let me know just how stupid I am. Go ahead and tell me I am weak and gave up. Go ahead and tell me I just stopped caring about my family and everybody in my life, because I did the same thing over a year ago to others. It is my turn to take the heat for something I had no clue about. Well guess what, I have a clue now and as I stated earlier, until you realise there is no choice, you don't know what you are arguing about.

People are not being judgmental (for the most part) they are just stating their opinion. There is a very definite consensus here. For those who think it's a choice and have so far chosen NOT to transition, the upside is that they still have the option NOT to transition.

Many of the people arguing it is a choice *are* transitioning (including myself).

As a trend it seems like the people thinking there is no choice went very desperate before transitioning. Perhaps many of the choice-camp people just transitioned before they were that desperate (as GID tends to grow as time goes by)?

I view it personally as a choice akin to accepting treatment to cancer. If things were a little bit different I would have probably chosen suicide, which I view as a valid option.

So there are 2 chains of thorght, i am a woman trapped in a mans body. Does that make me TS? I think it does, i have savear depression because i cant transition, sueside is not an option. I have to live not die and if it means takin drugs the rest of my life so b it. Trust me if i could transition i would.

The posts in this topic that referred to looks, photos and avatars has been split off under a new title called Avatars and photos in transgender talk.

Steph

Quote from: andy24canada on July 20, 2007, 12:45:34 AM

Quote from: Pia on July 19, 2007, 11:07:11 PM
I am a woman.  It doesnt make any sense to choose to live the life of a man if that isnt what you are.

uh huh. because giving up my current life and losing my entire family makes sense right? it's amazing how judgemental people are around here. people here seek so much not to be judged and yet all you do is judge judge judge. as if i'm not a really a girl on the inside because i have remained in this male body? give me a freaking break. some of you act as if transitioning is sooooooo easy. for some of us we cannot due to finances, family, or whatnot. Be glad that you can transition but dont you dare tell me what makes sense just because i cant do what you have done.

I am certain that all of us who have transitioned have had those same thoughts at some point in our lives, we must have or
we would've transitioned as children or teens.  We didn't for those very reasons amongst many.  It *doesn't* make sense, that's
the whole point.  In the end, we transition anyway in the face of all that negativity, loss of family, income, whether we have
money or not.  That's the point.  In the end, we are forced to, there is nothing that can stop it.  My choice was the front of
a semi at 80mph or transition.  Transitioning was *NOT* easy, it was the hardest thing I've ever done.  It's also been the
most amazing liberating journey of my life. 

No one is judging you or anyone else.  If transitioning or not transitioning is a choice for you, fabulous, you have more options
than I had, but saying you *can't* is a relative thing.  I've seen some women transition in the face of tremendous handicaps and
obstacles greater than many of us can image because they *had* to.  The discussion here is about whether transition is a choice:
for some it is; I won't argue the point nor do I think less of anyone in that camp.  Just please accept that for others, there are
no real choices other than to transition.  If you don't understand that, that's fine, just don't argue it ain't so because you don't
understand it.

Dawn

(Hi Tink!)

Quote from: Steph on July 20, 2007, 05:08:27 PM
The posts in this topic that referred to looks, photos and avatars has been split off under a new title called Avatars and photos in transgender talk.

Steph

I moved one more post over that you missed.

transition is as vital as oxygen to keep me breathing.  i don't choose to breathe.
i breathe because it's a natural instinct.  i don't have a choice.  i can't choose not to breathe.

katia, is that you in your AV?

omg *idolises*

Quote from: Katia on July 21, 2007, 08:39:06 AM
i don't have a choice.  i can't choose not to breathe.

actually... *holds breath* *gets blueish in her face* *almost suffocates*

... i ... i *cough* i think i made my point 

Quote from: regina on July 21, 2007, 11:05:07 AM

Quote from: Katia on July 21, 2007, 08:39:06 AM
transition is as vital as oxygen to keep me breathing.  i don't choose to breathe.
i breathe because it's a natural instinct.  i don't have a choice.  i can't choose not to breathe.

Wait, I thought the undead didn't have to breathe???

ciao,
Gina M.

ha ha ha ha that's a good way to see it.  but keep in mind that zombies can't turn into normal people.  they are already dead!   their flesh is even decomposed. 

Quote from: Rachael on July 21, 2007, 08:40:22 AM
katia, is that you in your AV?

omg *idolises*

I know. Too bad she's a lesbian. What a waste.

waste?
im merely sexual
if its hot, it gets some rachy lovin, but my romantic side is saved for teh boyz....

In regards to the topic again I wouldn't believe that is it that large of a choice.  Sure, there are some factors that play in there that you would consider it a choice.  Such as do you want to spend the rest of your life living unhappily or without worth, or do you want to do something about it and make yourself feel complete and whole.  Just my two cents although, everyones opinion differs.

*grumbles*

The hot ones are never available.

Okay I feel a split topic coming...

tink

Posted on: July 21, 2007, 04:35:30 PM

---

Quote from: DawnL on July 20, 2007, 05:15:23 PM
(Hi Tink!)

Hi Dawn!  Always a joy to see you.

tink

QuoteI know. Too bad she's a lesbian. What a waste.

Hey, hey, heyyyyyy. Watch it bud-dy! Step away from the vampire.

No, the waste is that she only likes foofy grrrls.  Ahhh.  The life of a butch is such a challenge.
But I love the fact that she is firmly on my side of the fence. The fence I'm sitting on. Never mind.....

Could we please stay in topic?  thanks a lot kitty cats!

tink

For me it technically was a choice but also in the same way that you can choose to punch yourself in the face or choose not to.

I don't even understand people who don't go FT as soon as is humanly possible, only after two months or so after coming to terms I transitioned comfortably, why would I leave it any longer? It just hurt too much to do anything but.

I'd almost forgotten how bad GID pain is.