Chelsea Manning Willing to Go to Court for Gender Procedures
In a letter published this week, she says her attorney will make a court filing if the military does not grant her requests.
BY Trudy Ring
November 01 2013 2:35 PM ET

http://www.advocate.com/politics/military/2013/11/01/chelsea-manning-willing-go-court-gender-procedures

Pvt. Chelsea Manning says she'll go to court if the military does not provide her with hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery, in a document released this week.

In a letter posted on the Private Manning Support Network Web site, Manning says attorney David E. Coombs will represent her in efforts to obtain this treatment, and if administrative procedures within the Army are exhausted, will file suit in an appropriate court. He will also represent her in efforts to legally change her name from Bradley to Chelsea.

Manning has begun serving at 35-year sentence in a men's military prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., after being convicted of leaking classified documents. Military officials have so far denied her any medical treatment related to gender transition, and have said they will not allow her to wear women's clothing while in prison. Name changes, however, will be allowed.

Umm, how many qualified SRS surgeons would be willing to fly to her to do this?

It would be nice if one would come for me and do it on the taxpayers' dime.  Here's some leaky documents... arrest me!

Never going to happen.

So "military officials" have prevented HRT, a lawful name change, and appropriate clothing for a female prisoner?

Who is the highest official in the chain-of-command?

QuoteWho is the highest official in the chain-of-command?

Me: Commander in Chief Barack Obama

Alex: Please phrase in the form of a question.

Me: Who is Commander in Chief Barack Obama?

Alex: Yes!

Did ya'll see where Obama bragged about being really good at killing people (from the new book 'Doubling Down'). He was talking about drone strikes, not obamacare. 

I do believe you are correct!

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on November 05, 2013, 10:04:01 PM
I do believe you are correct!

I'm sure I'll blow it all in final jeopardy... 

Certainly Ms Manning's well-being is in jeopardy.

"It's offensive. It's wrong. And it needs to stop."

Obama often keeps himself out of the loop, avoiding all responsibilities.
Chelsea humiliated him and his big brother administration via wiki-leaks.

Quote from: Gina_Z on November 05, 2013, 10:29:22 PM
Obama often keeps himself out of the loop, avoiding all responsibilities.
Chelsea humiliated him and his big brother administration via wiki-leaks.

Well, Chelsea Manning's dilemma is in the newspaper now, so I'm assuming Obama finally now knows about it!

Ha. I hope his assistants informed him.

... I hate to admit this, but I'm always conflicted on what I think about people in prison getting help with transition at the cost of tax payers. On the one hand, I know it's a legitimate medical need (obviously from my own experiences).

On the other ... they're in prison which means they were found in a court of law (in this case a military one) to have broken the law ... so they get something for free that I (who is a law abiding citizen) have to scrimp, save, and practically beg to pay for, made even worse by the fact that even though I have health insurance, it doesn't cover anything toward my treatment. It's right up there with the time me and a friend of mine did some math and we figured out that prisoners in the state of Kansas lived better than I did from a financial  standpoint based on what the state spends per prisoner back when I was 26.

...

Something just seems seriously off about society when our prison system has a standard of living per prisoner that (...at least on paper... I'm sure it's not exactly fun) is better than someone who's just doing their best to get by day to day. Does that mean my standard of living is cruel and unusual punishment?

On the one hand ... I think she should be allowed to transition in prison, and I do think trans people incarcerated not being treated is cruel and unusual punishment  ... but on the other ... and I admit this is selfish on my part ... I think it's incredibly unfair that she is expecting to get help for something that someone who has done their best to play by the rules has a lot of expense they have to fork over out of pocket to have a hope of getting half of what she's asking for.

So I have mixed feelings on the subject, and that's before thinking about what it is that she did that got her in prison in the first place.

I agree Amy, I am conflicted too for the same reasons. HRT is relatively cheap from what I hear, so that's not a big deal to me, but surgeries are very expensive and most people aren't able to ever save up for bottom surgery during their lives.


Also, please keep this on topic a much as possible. There's the Obama lies thread over in politics if you're interested in discussing your views on the president.

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on November 05, 2013, 09:53:58 PMSo "military officials" have prevented HRT, a lawful name change, and appropriate clothing for a female prisoner?
Who is the highest official in the chain-of-command?

Unfortunately, the military views her, along with every other transgendered person affiliated with them, including me, as a moral degenerate. I highly doubt she'll get the care.

Quote from: LearnedHand on November 06, 2013, 08:19:00 AM
I agree Amy, I am conflicted too for the same reasons. HRT is relatively cheap from what I hear, so that's not a big deal to me, but surgeries are very expensive and most people aren't able to ever save up for bottom surgery during their lives.

This is what I think the policy should be... for the standard citizen as well as the incarcerated ones. HRT and the required periodic testing should be fully covered in all insurance plans at the same rates as any other tests or drugs. We do have a medical condition that is equivalent to any other hormonal imbalance. We should be covered just as a thyroid condition or a birth-sex hormonal imbalance would be covered. It is as physically painful for us as for these other conditions.

Surgeries, while not exactly elective, should be covered on a plan-by-plan basis. This is currently true for most major surgeries... some plans allow some surgeries, other plans do not. They should not be covered for incarcerated persons.

Quote from: LearnedHand on November 06, 2013, 08:19:00 AM
I agree Amy, I am conflicted too for the same reasons. HRT is relatively cheap from what I hear, so that's not a big deal to me, but surgeries are very expensive and most people aren't able to ever save up for bottom surgery during their lives.

If it where just HRT and therapy Chelsea Manning was after I would feel far less conflicted. That, I think is completely fair. I'm not against her wanting to transition, prison or not, and wouldn't want to promote anything that would prevent that for her or other people in prison, as that just sounds absolutely cruel to me. But while I know surgery is a part of transition for many of us, I just ... can't help but feel that's unfair to trans people outside of prison, especially for those of us who work for years to save up (if ever) for those surgeries.

Quote from: Willow on November 06, 2013, 08:26:32 AM
Unfortunately, the military views her, along with every other transgendered person affiliated with them, including me, as a moral degenerate. I highly doubt she'll get the care.

Yeah, I doubt it too, Willow, which despite my conflicted view on it, I think is a shame. I just think if she would ask for less ... she might get a lot more accomplished. I think she would certainly have more support from the trans community at the very least.

I think that's the issue... we're not with her because she asks too much, but it could be a case of ask for all, get enough. I also don't know what sort of other surgeries convicted felons qualify for. I personally would consider GRS, FFS, and other surgeries to be non-medically necessary surgeries that greatly improve quality of life (dependent on the person). A knee replacement surgery might be similar, in most cases. There is also the difference of physical pain versus psychological pain - I'm not sure if there's anything similar in the "psych" category. (I'm not sure there's anything psychologically comparable to LGBT at all - since we have a socially acceptable physiological condition that expresses itself psychologically).

I realize she's done a lot for our community, and I'm torn because what she did goes so far against my own ideals. It's not often a convicted felon and traitor is given the opportunity to cause true social change that fix social wrongs. It's doubly weird for me because it's two groups I closely identify with (transgenders and the military).

There's a huge undercurrent of social change going on for us and this is but a small part.

  We'll see in 2016, the last year of Obama's term if he will do indeed pardon Manning.  Usually there are a slew of pardons in the last year of a president's term.  This case, I doubt it. 

  Joelene

I don't know why he would or should.

Quote from: Amy The Bookworm on November 06, 2013, 10:34:48 AMYeah, I doubt it too, Willow, which despite my conflicted view on it, I think is a shame. I just think if she would ask for less ... she might get a lot more accomplished. I think she would certainly have more support from the trans community at the very least.

I can say she doesn't have my full support, due to trying to correlate being transgendered to leaking classified documents. Not really related; it's a terrible excuse.

Chelsea Manning did not, to the best of my knowledge, try to correlate being trans to document leaks at all. In fact, her lawyers tried very hard to keep the trans angle out of the trial and succeeded mostly (except for some testimony brought in by the prosecution). The only aspects of Chelsea's medical condition that were relevant to the trial was that she had been identified as both unfit for access to classified documents by a military psychiatrist long before she was placed in that position, and that she was designated unfit for deployment overseas due to her medical condition. Chelsea's GID was known years ago for anyone who actually followed the story.

The question that bothers me is, if this is indeed true, and the official US Army medical records do indeed state that this is true, why is her former commander being allowed off the hook for placing her in contact with classified documents and deploying her overseas? There is at least one captain (Company Commander) and one lieutenant colonel (Battalion Commander) who should have been tried for creating and perpetuating this situation yet nobody aside from Chelsea has been tried or even charged.

Further, the war crimes documented in the released documents have not been prosecuted at all, nor have they been investigated except by the same units that committed the crimes. Isn't that a bit fishy too?

As far as Chelsea seeking proper medical care, it is already constitutionally decided law that if the government takes control of your life (such as imprisoning you) the government must provide medically necessary health care. This would include a heart transplant too. Just because someone is in prison doesn't mean they can be treated cruelly.

Yes, it's unfair, but thank the US healthcare mess for that. That's not Chelsea Manning's fault and we should not take out our frustration with a broken healthcare system on her.