Quote from: None of the Above on July 18, 2007, 12:56:14 PM

Quote
Art is useless unless it can fill someone's belly, is it not?
Artists should all get a job, maybe something useful like on a train or in a train station.

Well, speaking of negative dialectics... (asserting which is not the same as a phony position) let's see, what is most useful to the system of capitalism, what we got here in this country? Since Antietam, nothing has driven this economy so much as WAR. War fills bellies every day. And might ensure the best train service and more employment opps in the process.

You grok?

NOTA

I grok. I have shamed myself.  When I say "shamed", I mean "soiled".

Well, there's a job for someone. 

Quote from: None of the Above on July 18, 2007, 02:29:31 PM

Well, there's a job for someone. 

Know any starving artists?   

well, wot's yer going rate?

I don't believe I could afford to pay anyone enough to do it.  Plus, they would be required to use the real Mona Lisa.

Great, I get to just sit in my own mess and hope a passing arsonist sets fire to my pants.  Arsonists work for free 

Amateur anything works for free, professional arsonists get the big bucks.

That includes professional art arsonists, so good luck with your new career, either way

I'm sorry, I'm not picking on you, Jonie. I'm just answering these posts at random. Please don't feel offended. 
Rebis,
No offense taken, pick on me all you want. Your comments about "art" got me riled up and  I found them very annoying, so I have a few words for you. Head-On, apply directly to the forehead,
                                                           Head-On, apply directly to the forehead,
                                                           Head-On, apply directly to the forehead,
                                                           Head-On, apply directly to the forehead.

Quote from: Jonie on July 18, 2007, 10:11:02 PM
I'm sorry, I'm not picking on you, Jonie. I'm just answering these posts at random. Please don't feel offended. 
Rebis,
No offense taken, pick on me all you want. Your comments about "art" got me riled up and  I found them very annoying, so I have a few words for you. Head-On, apply directly to the forehead,
                                                        Head-On, apply directly to the forehead,
                                                        Head-On, apply directly to the forehead,
                                                        Head-On, apply directly to the forehead.

I don't understand. Are you for or against vandalizing great art? 

   

 I find irritation a very stimulating thing to the mind.

This is a great topic, it's philosophical and concrete.

can I get in on this 'head-on' substance? if it's fun that is... sounds like a transcutaneous sort of application... how long's it take to work, for starters?

    Okay, so most (all) of you believe that art should not be destroyed and that it is important, but what if some crazed buffoon appeared in front of you while you were standing in front of the mona lisa and the buffoon said, "burn that painting or I'll shoot this coyote!". I forgot to say that a coyote had wandered onto the scene.

    Would you then burn the painting or would you allow the armed buffoon to shoot a cute little coyote?

  I forgot to say that the coyote is cute because it somehow ate the right food which makes its' coat of fur shiny and healthy.

One coyote as expendable to save the master work is a classic example (well almost, there are some that would deem the painting as *having no use value*, but it is a 'good' example) of sacrifice for the greater good; a cute predator is still a predator, it's hard to attribute much human social value to a single coyote, and you have posed basically a pet coyote which is unlikely, possibly absurd.

Sorry. Try again.

n

i could never vandalize anyone's imagination since it's our most mysterious aspect.  it connects our conscious with our subconscious.  it allows to explore our inner self and fill that urge to understand our ever changing body, mind, and universe.  iow it is the most important part of every one of us.  sorry don't count me on it.

Quote from: Katia on July 21, 2007, 10:11:37 AM
i could never vandalize anyone's imagination since it's our most mysterious aspect.  it connects our conscious with our subconscious.  it allows to explore our inner self and fill that urge to understand our ever changing body, mind, and universe.  iow it is the most important part of every one of us.  sorry don't count me on it.

What if you were running a museum and you knew for a fact that a nazi army was going to come riding in on their tigers and they were going to specifically sack the museum, send the goods back to NAZI central, and then offer it for sale across the globe in order to use the proceeds to build more bombs and to keep their ball bearing plant in Dusseldorf running?

at that point I'd certainly consider it.

Quote from: Katia on July 21, 2007, 10:11:37 AM
i could never vandalize anyone's imagination...

I could, in my own imagination. Or at least in the imagination of my imagination. On German tigers, even

Why not deface the Mona Lisa?  Because I happen to find old Leo's self portrait quite beautiful and that to me is enough of an answer.  After all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  However, if you want to destroy things others find beautiful or majestic, the Parthenon seen by moonlight, the Pyramids, Machu Picchu, because they have no "real or perceived value" to you, that is your choice.  But do not be surprised when negative feedback is applied by others who "value" such things for whatever reason.   

Beverly

Quote from: BeverlyAnn on July 21, 2007, 11:33:24 AM
Why not deface the Mona Lisa?  Because I happen to find old Leo's self portrait quite beautiful and that to me is enough of an answer.  After all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  However, if you want to destroy things others find beautiful or majestic, the Parthenon seen by moonlight, the Pyramids, Machu Picchu, because they have no "real or perceived value" to you, that is your choice.  But do not be surprised when negative feedback is applied by others who "value" such things for whatever reason.   

Beverly

   But, what if evil G. W. Bush said, "I will stop being evil and I will devote myself to doing good. To show you that I am serious, I will have my team of evil doctors give evil dick[less] cheney a lobotomy which will force us to resign him. I will open up all files to the public. The only acceptable government meetings will occur in the open and be recorded by cspan. I will work with congress to clean up the environment and to enact a real health care system which will not discriminate.  Then, I will send my evil corrupt minions to correct the damage I have done unto this world. However, I will do these things ONLY if you burn the Mona Lisa right in front of me.

   Destruction is looking better now, isn't it?

No. Because everything that man says might be a lie, and he'd just LAUGH with Uncle Dick afterwards, after he has you arrested on some vandalism in the wrong forum charge.

Quote from: Rebis on July 21, 2007, 01:59:07 PM
Destruction is looking better now, isn't it?

Not at all.  I'll take man's search for truth and beauty over that any day.

Beverly

Apparently, since I can't seem to goad any of you into doing my dirty work for me, I'll just have to do it myself. 


   Wait!  I have a new angle, I mean, argument.

   In historical times, nobody cared about art or anything.  The libraries that Alexander had built and most artwork along with actual knowledge was relentlessly destroyed by invading armies.

   If they can do it, why not we?   Are they better than us?

Quote from: BeverlyAnn on July 22, 2007, 08:19:45 AM

Quote from: Rebis on July 21, 2007, 01:59:07 PM
Destruction is looking better now, isn't it?

Not at all.  I'll take man's search for truth and beauty over that any day.

Beverly

gotta love it when they doesn't get the joke.

this HERE, is part of the search for truth, if not beauty; this is what is known in the trade as an aesthetic discussion. in a philosophy forum, even.

Quote from: Rebis on July 22, 2007, 09:39:50 AM

   Wait!  I have a new angle, I mean, argument.

   In historical times, nobody cared about art or anything.  The libraries that Alexander had built and most artwork along with actual knowledge was relentlessly destroyed by invading armies.

   If they can do it, why not we?   Are they better than us?

by WE, if you mean ermerikins, if this art were of BAGHDAD (which ONCET UPON ER TIME were crawling with beauty and truth), it'd be a done deal already.

NOTA