I've been a bit discouraged as of late, wondering if I will ever be able to actually pass. As some background, I was taking hormones for 3 months until May, then I had to stop. I started again in late September, and have been on them since. I think that my face has improved a bit.

But, I've been looking at a lot of before/after pictures, and I noticed something. Most of girls' feminization due to hormones was that their facial features were softened and their faces got less muscular and gained more fat for a more full appearance. For me, I have always had fairly soft facial features and my face has never been very muscular, but I have still always been gendered male, which tells me that there's something else that's making my face appear masculine.

So based on that observation, I've been thinking that hormones won't do anything to feminize my face, because I basically have all the facial features that hormones cause. Has anyone else had similar concerns in their transition--that you have a face that just can't be feminize by hormones?

Sorry about the bad make-up job. This was my first time putting on eyeliner.

It's hard to tell because the picture is a little blurry, but while you do appear to have a few masculine features, overall I don't see anything that disqualifies you from passing. Also, I wouldn't jump to conclusions about what hormones are going to do for you after such a short time. I'd say give it a year or two, and if you still don't like where you're at, you may want to bite the bullet and look into your options for getting some FFS work done. Just keep in mind that you don't need to hold yourself to ridiculous standards in terms of your appearance. I've seen plenty of genetic girls with a masculine feature or two, and your face isn't even necessarily the biggest factor in whether or not you pass. Just try to keep the big picture in mind, be patient, and spend a little time working on your ability to accept yourself for who you are. A little self-confidence may be able to do more for your ability to pass than surgery ever could.

I totally agree , very good advice.

Quote from: Miyuki on November 13, 2013, 02:28:10 PM
It's hard to tell because the picture is a little blurry, but while you do appear to have a few masculine features, overall I don't see anything that disqualifies you from passing. Also, I wouldn't jump to conclusions about what hormones are going to do for you after such a short time. I'd say give it a year or two, and if you still don't like where you're at, you may want to bite the bullet and look into your options for getting some FFS work done. Just keep in mind that you don't need to hold yourself to ridiculous standards in terms of your appearance. I've seen plenty of genetic girls with a masculine feature or two, and your face isn't even necessarily the biggest factor in whether or not you pass. Just try to keep the big picture in mind, be patient, and spend a little time working on your ability to accept yourself for who you are. A little self-confidence may be able to do more for your ability to pass than surgery ever could.

I second this.  I see nothing in your picture that would keep you from passing.  You're there, girlfriend, at least as far as appearance goes, to me.  One thing that has often held me back or discouraged me is that I can make my face presentable, I can wear wigs and flattering clothing... I can take a pretty feminine picture, with effort.  But there is so much more to being a woman, in gestures and speech patterns and, well, a hundred-and-one ways.

Something that has helped me a lot in passing is spending time with CIS-women, learning their movements, their speech patterns.  Another way to look at it is "un-learning" all the stuff we had to master in order to pass as boys and men.  So many rules we learned and internalized, things like not speaking in the bathroom and keeping our wrists firm (never letting them flop around like a girl).  Hiding our emotions, never letting our bodies express our emotions... the list goes on and on.  By watching and learning from our CIS-sisters, we can get a handle on the behaviors that we should un-learn that give subconscious clues to our gender.

I have seen CIS-women who read "male" through and through in pictures (except for hair, makeup, and other things they do to appear more feminine, just as we do).  CIS-women who's bodies scream "Man in a dress" until you see them move, smile, gesture... then there is no question in my mind they are CIS female.

*hug*  Hang in there, lady... you'll get through this.  It just takes time. 

Now pardon me while I go tell this to myself.  Again. 

Agree with the others. Besides you haven't been on HRT long and all changes, face included, are something that you have to give time to work, at least six to twelve months. Even then the facial changes are usually only subtle. Sorry to say, but it is a waiting game!

Thanks all for the advice and encouragement  The fuel that's been getting me through this transition has been hope...and it seems I'm getting less and less as time goes on, rather than more. Like the more I do to make myself more feminine, the less hopeful I am because I'm still not satisfied with the way I look afterwards. It's such a vicious cycle, and I'm not sure how to break it

Quote from: Robin Mack on November 13, 2013, 02:52:17 PM
*hug*  Hang in there, lady... you'll get through this.  It just takes time. 

Thanks, *hugs* to you ask well

Quote from: riversong on November 13, 2013, 03:09:57 PM
Thanks all for the advice and encouragement  The fuel that's been getting me through this transition has been hope...and it seems I'm getting less and less as time goes on, rather than more. Like the more I do to make myself more feminine, the less hopeful I am because I'm still not satisfied with the way I look afterwards. It's such a vicious cycle, and I'm not sure how to break it

Sweetie, you are gorgeous. You're right about the vicious cycle... a large part of any successful transition is all about developing confidence about who we are and our appearance. That can sometimes take a unbelievable amount of willpower... mostly to tell that nagging voice of self doubt and self criticism in our own heads to STFU. Sadly we are all our worst enemies when it comes to how we look; the most beautiful women, cis and trans alike, will often still find "something wrong" and feel miserable about it. Best not to get overly fixated about appearance, it is a quick road to hopelessness as you've discovered. The way any and all women look is a never ending quest, always a work in progress... decide on your best features and lead with them. 

Quote from: riversong on November 13, 2013, 03:09:57 PM
Thanks all for the advice and encouragement  The fuel that's been getting me through this transition has been hope...and it seems I'm getting less and less as time goes on, rather than more. Like the more I do to make myself more feminine, the less hopeful I am because I'm still not satisfied with the way I look afterwards. It's such a vicious cycle, and I'm not sure how to break it

Something that helps me sometimes is remembering the stages of learning and how they apply to transition...

1) Unconscious Incompetence: You don't know what you don't know.  ("OMG, I'm a woman and I need to interact with the world that way.  What do I do?")
2) Conscious Incompetence: You know what you need to do, you just can't do it well yet.  ("OK, if I do makeup and hair and get my walk down and my voice, then I'll be able to at least pass... but it's so much to remember all the time!")
3) Conscious Competence: You can do it, you just have to make a serious effort.  "Ok, now girl, you've got this... just don't let your voice crack...")
and finally:
4) Unconscious Competence:  You just do it.  "Why did I ever think this was difficult?  I'm a woman, I've always been female, I'm just being myself."

I'm at about a level 2 on most things, but practicing for that conscious competence.  RLE will push me from 3 to 4. 

Hang in there... sounds like you're around 2, as well.  We'll get there.

Sound advice Robin, I might print it out for my fridge door!

You probably haven't been on hormones for long enough to get the full effect, so I would give it more time.

In the meantime, you can always start saving for FFS. If you end up not needing it, then you've got a chunk of change to use for something else- whatever it may be! Kind of a win-win.

Also what could be getting you down is the lighting in your photos. strong overhead lights can make eyes appear more sunken in beneath what is otherwise a perfectly normal brow line. If you want to get a good photo representation of how you appear to other people, try standing next to a big window and rotating your body until the light does less to accentuate the bony features of your face. It will make the eyes pop a bit more. This is a bit more true to how we see each other through eyeballs in 3D rather than a 2D image from a photo. And if you're outside, it's always better on either end of the day (early morning or just before sunset). It's what photographers call the "golden hour". The key is diffuse lighting not coming directly from an overhead source. It makes people look strange no matter what gender. I see a lot of people getting down on themselves about photos when really the main issue is lighting the face properly.

As well, if you are not passing in person it could be from things other than your face. I.e. body language and posture are HUGE parts of visual presentation. Voice is an obviously huge one, too, but it seemed like you were talking more about visuals.

Quote from: Jennygirl on November 13, 2013, 05:51:06 PM
You probably haven't been on hormones for long enough to get the full effect, so I would give it more time.

In the meantime, you can always start saving for FFS. If you end up not needing it, then you've got a chunk of change to use for something else- whatever it may be! Kind of a win-win.

Also what could be getting you down is the lighting in your photos. strong overhead lights can make eyes appear more sunken in beneath what is otherwise a perfectly normal brow line. If you want to get a good photo representation of how you appear to other people, try standing next to a big window and rotating your body until the light does less to accentuate the bony features of your face. It will make the eyes pop a bit more. This is a bit more true to how we see each other through eyeballs in 3D rather than a 2D image from a photo. And if you're outside, it's always better on either end of the day (early morning or just before sunset). It's what photographers call the "golden hour". The key is diffuse lighting not coming directly from an overhead source. It makes people look strange no matter what gender. I see a lot of people getting down on themselves about photos when really the main issue is lighting the face properly.

Oh that's a good point. I figured (hoped) that might have had something to do with it. I have noticed that I look most passable in mostly ambient light, and little diffuse lighting. I wish my face weren't so sensitive to lighting conditions =/ but it's better than not being passable at all. Thanks for the tip

Quote from: riversong on November 13, 2013, 06:16:34 PM
Oh that's a good point. I figured (hoped) that might have had something to do with it. I have noticed that I look most passable in mostly ambient light, and little diffuse lighting. I wish my face weren't so sensitive to lighting conditions =/ but it's better than not being passable at all. Thanks for the tip

You are welcome. And don't worry- you are not alone on this

hormones can do wonderful things for you. i guess time will tell over the next 2 years

I'm in the same boat. This is my first week of HRT . Its a bummer to have to wait.