Quote from: LynnER on July 21, 2007, 05:32:18 AM
I dont even qualify as lower middle class... Im in downright poverty class... Ive never made more than 10k in a year. GRS is a pipe dream...  Im affraid to be butchered over seas... and far too poor to realisticly be able to afford it in any amount of time.  I have a hard enough time paying for HRT and food and keeping my car running.... 
The only reason I was able to get laser was because the financeer screwed up. They even tried to take it back, but sence the purchase was made I was able to fight and win.
People say get a loan...  yeah right... To get a loan you need credit... to get credit you need active credit... to get active credit you need a credit card...  and I dont qualify for any unless I go for one that charges you the cards limit in fees just to activate it or get a secured one through a bank after begging and bribeing the board of directors. and even then to get a 200$ card you have to have 300$ in saveings and thats frozen... to up the limit you have to put more money in... and to save money you have to have an excess of funds beyond the basic liveing requirements.
If I need to see the doctor Im totaly screwed... I cant afford anything other than the free clinic... and even then its allmost imposable to get the point across that just because Im white dosnt mean I have money!!
Honestly the only reason Im able to transition is cheap meds in mexico and goodwill haveing cheap if not allways well fitting clothes.

Gods... and writeing the reality of this has once again made me depressed and made me cry......  I HATE THIS!!!

I'm in a similar position and don't have good credit but I know private treatment is the only answer for me. I spent nearly 7 years at the NHS Charing Cross GIC and in that time they did absolutely nothing to help me. The refused hormones over a 2 year period, they refused referrals including GRS even though I have fullfiled all protocols and a very long term RLT. A large chunk of my life was wasted with complete nonsense...

I saw a private consultant in 2003 ....and was on hormones the same day....
that saved a lot of time and which ever way you look at it the NHS are there to waste as much time as possible and avoid facilitating treatment. Most people don't have a lot of money and like me have trouble just surviving, let alone paying for treatment........but for me private treatment is the only serious option. How to find the money is difficult but what else can I do?

charring cross f***s trans folk in the botty...

anyone can do whatever they want if they put their mind to it.  transition isn't the exception to this rule.   how serious are you about transition?  very?  ok, what about getting a second job for starters then?

second jobs are hard when your a student primarily and already working nights too...

only poor while i cope with loosing my parents and all financial support. being dropped into financial independance is hard work

Quote from: Katia on July 21, 2007, 08:55:05 AM
anyone can do whatever they want if they put their mind to it.  transition isn't the exception to this rule.   how serious are you about transition?  very?  ok, what about getting a second job for starters then?

Oh, yes, anyone can do what they want.... *Coughs* and getting a second job *Coughs again*
Its great in theory, but you have to be in a position to do what ever you want. the american dream is exactly that, a dream... Its like winning the lottery, highly improbable. I can do what I want yes... so long as I can pay for it. Its nearly impossable to get a job where I live let alone a second one.  Well... I could waste all my time at two 5.15/hr jobs....  working 80+hours a week...  Id rather spend the time and energy on finding AND KEEPING a single job that pays twice that...
Well then why dont you move?
Moveing, like saveing requires haveing money in excess to the current liveing needs... and a place to stay and enough saveings to live on while you estabilish yourself.  Dont give me this hardwork leads to rewards bull...  Ive been workiing my butt off sence I was 12.  What people in my position need isnt a second job or some half thought out advice...  we need a break and a chance to get out of poverty. A 2nd job isnt a chance it just digs you in deeper. Trust me, I know from experiance.
But America is the land of opertunity.  Sorry hon, but its not what you know, or what you can do that matters, its who you know and how well you can brownnose... specialy when your poverty class... People above dont like people below catching up to them.

For the poor it all comes down to this. "Can you survive till the bad luck runs out, and can you make the best of the good luck when it happens?"

ex bloody zactly...

Quote from: regina on July 21, 2007, 11:03:31 AM
While I appreciate the long wait times and sometimes limited choices British people get for transitioning on the NHS, it all rings pretty hollow compared to countries where we pay everything out of pocket. Sorry you're a poor student, but welcome to the world sweetie. It's called 'life as it is.'

ciao,
Gina M.

Hang on a minute Gina.....the idea of the NHS is that we pay a large amount of our taxes towards the NHS....it's not a free ride......and besides the NHS don't really have an objective for helping transsexuals anyway.....their objective is to make as much money from various PCT's as they can (who send patients to their clinic) and then stall people as long as they can or do nothing to facilitate any treatment and then profiteer from the PCT's (Health Authorities) and use the money for other projects.......Charing Cross GIC in London is a prime example of this and got a awful lot of money from my PCT in 6 years (we are talking 1,000's) yet did nothing to facilitate any treatment.......

Nothing is free in this world! Life is hard and if you want something you will have to work for it. I've been self sufficient since I was 17. I tried to transition at 18-20 and I had to de-transition and supress the GID in order to survive. I never gave up on it though. It has taken me about 20 years to be able to get where it is possible for me to do this. Yes supressing it caused me alot of pain and it wasn't easy to do!

I don't have a degree, so I worked my ass off to get where I am today. I have never been fired from a job. In almost every job I had I got promoted to management. Then I would use that and get a better job, get promoted after more hard work. So on on so on! I went from poor to upper middle class within that 20 years. I still will have trouble paying for the surgeries but I have a plan. It involves more hard work, paying off my existing debt and scrimping, saving and living within my means(boredom). My insurance doesn't cover SRS or HRT but I have Hypogonadism and need estrogen to survive so at least that is covered! There is almost always a way doctors can code things so insurance will pay for them. This may allow you to at least get HRT covered so you can put the rest away for surgery.

Really, I think that there is some jealousy going on here. Some people feel they are entitled to things that they haven't worked for or planned for.People see that things are going smooth for someone and assume it is because of wealth. They fail to see that this person has probably worked, planned and suffered to earn her transition beforehand. I think they need to stop concerning themselves with other's transitions and social class jealousy and concentrate on their own transition.

B.T.W. You must also realize that once you transiton to female it will get worse ,financially, due to the gender pay gap. Women make about 1/3 less than men do for the same job. If you are poor now you will be worse off afterward. If you have not realized this yourself your therapist should be pointing these things out to you.  You must be prepared for this cause it will happen.

Quote from: LynnER on July 21, 2007, 03:30:44 PM

Quote from: Katia on July 21, 2007, 08:55:05 AM
anyone can do whatever they want if they put their mind to it.  transition isn't the exception to this rule.   how serious are you about transition?  very?  ok, what about getting a second job for starters then?

Oh, yes, anyone can do what they want.... *Coughs* and getting a second job *Coughs again*
Its great in theory, but you have to be in a position to do what ever you want. the american dream is exactly that, a dream... Its like winning the lottery, highly improbable. I can do what I want yes... so long as I can pay for it. Its nearly impossable to get a job where I live let alone a second one.  Well... I could waste all my time at two 5.15/hr jobs....  working 80+hours a week...  Id rather spend the time and energy on finding AND KEEPING a single job that pays twice that...
Well then why dont you move?
Moveing, like saveing requires haveing money in excess to the current liveing needs... and a place to stay and enough saveings to live on while you estabilish yourself.  Dont give me this hardwork leads to rewards bull...  Ive been workiing my butt off sence I was 12.  What people in my position need isnt a second job or some half thought out advice...  we need a break and a chance to get out of poverty. A 2nd job isnt a chance it just digs you in deeper. Trust me, I know from experiance.
But America is the land of opertunity.  Sorry hon, but its not what you know, or what you can do that matters, its who you know and how well you can brownnose... specialy when your poverty class... People above dont like people below catching up to them.

For the poor it all comes down to this. "Can you survive till the bad luck runs out, and can you make the best of the good luck when it happens?"

what we need in this country is health care and treatment for all TS not just the ones who can afford it.



Sorry Nero, tried to quote you & pressed the modify key by mistake.  My apologies.

Quote from: Nerowhat we need in this country is health care and treatment for all TS not just the ones who can afford it.

True.  We need a lot of things in this country, but if we are going to wait for these things to magically happen, we will be 100 years old or dead by the time they do.  I believe that Thundra gave excellent tips on how to save for SRS.  For some, it may sound like "winning the lottery" or pure "theory".  Well, sorry to disappoint you kitty cats but it can be done.

As I said on a different topic, I know people who come from the poorest neighborhoods in the city where I am from.  People who have had to deal with extreme poverty, drug addiction and many other things but who have managed to climb to the surface.  Have you read the story of Christine Beatty (to name someone who is known in the community)?  Well, I know several "Christine Beattys" whose names are not famous or recognizable in the TG community but who have followed exactly the same path.  No one is saying that it is an easy thing to accomplish.  In fact, it is one of the hardest challenges anyone can overcome, but it isn't an impossibility...so what are you going to do?  wait for the fairy Bushy to give us free health care or try to accomplish what you need yourself? Huh?

tink

Quote from: Jonni Smith on July 22, 2007, 09:25:50 AM


B.T.W. You must also realize that once you transiton to female it will get worse ,financially, due to the gender pay gap. Women make about 1/3 less than men do for the same job. If you are poor now you will be worse off afterward. If you have not realized this yourself your therapist should be pointing these things out to you.  You must be prepared for this cause it will happen.

when i decided i MUST transition or die, i didnt really do a financial evaluation, it was necesery, life is as it will be, there are rich women, i will be one... ill just work harder *shrugs*

Quote from: Tink on July 22, 2007, 04:58:11 PM

Quote from: Nerowhat we need in this country is health care and treatment for all TS not just the ones who can afford it.

True.  We need a lot of things in this country, but if we are going to wait for these things to magically happen, we will be 100 years old or dead by the time they do.  I believe that Thundra gave excellent tips on how to save for SRS.  For some, it may sound like "winning the lottery" or pure "theory".  Well, sorry to disappoint you kitty cats but it can be done.

As I said on a different topic, I know people who come from the poorest neighborhoods in the city where I am from.  People who have had to deal with extreme poverty, drug addiction and many other things but who have managed to climb to the surface.  Have you read the story of Christine Beatty (to name someone who is known in the community)?  Well, I know several "Christine Beattys" whose names are not famous or recognizable in the TG community but who have followed exactly the same path.  No one is saying that it is an easy thing to accomplish.  In fact, it is one of the hardest challenges anyone can overcome, but it isn't an impossibility...so what are you going to do?  wait for the fairy Bushy to give us free health care or try to accomplish what you need yourself? Huh?

tink

Well it sure isn't easy especially for us addicts, funny though it seems like all of us have a special something that "normies" don't have, I mean, we always knew we would find a way to keep the monkeys off our backs, those skills can usually be transferred to the "real world" (Christine has software skills, I can get people to buy things)

As I reflect what I have accomplished while I am waiting for Kitty to be unwrapped tomorrow and while the puppies are settling in, I am truly amazed that I was able to do this in really three years.

I just want to throw up, quite frankly, when people cry woe is me.

Quote from: regina on July 22, 2007, 11:31:02 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on July 22, 2007, 08:03:52 AM
Hang on a minute Gina.....the idea of the NHS is that we pay a large amount of our taxes towards the NHS....it's not a free ride......and besides the NHS don't really have an objective for helping transsexuals anyway..

Berliegh,

I'd never say the NHS is a free ride, but it IS an option. Come to the United States and you'll find very quickly find that, without a lot of money, there are NO options (well, perhaps some free clinics in large urban areas that have much the same NHS aspect to them). When you grow up in a country with nationalized health care it's very easy to take it for granted, but that safety net makes a big difference in the quality of life, especially for lower and lower/middle class people. Your taxes are higher, but you get way more for the money you shell out. Here, we primary pay for military expenditures and direct or indirect subsidies of corporations. What few things we have, like social security and public are considered negotiables by large sections of our right wing government.

I agree, the way NHS treats some people is shameful. Perhaps if England choses to really join the EU things will improve (as they have in Spain). But in the US and the city I live in, I see so many people stalled in transition because they're in financial and health care purgatory and can't get out.

Wishing you some well deserved forward movement!

ciao,
Gina M.

Hi Gina, I have so far only ever paid for my treatment out of my own pocket.......I have never had any treatment through the NHS even though I attended an NHS GIC Clinic for 6 years...

I am quite proud in some ways that I have paid for my own treatment and it shows my determination but my arguement was that why do the NHS bother to set up GIC clinics in the first place in order to brainwash people into thinking this is where they should be sent, but in reality they are time wasting and are employed as a filter to discourage and demoralise transsexuals to the point of suicide.

Private healthcare in the U.K is very different and it will be expensive but in the long run it's more beneficial to the patient.

Quote from: Tink on July 22, 2007, 04:58:11 PM

Quote from: Nerowhat we need in this country is health care and treatment for all TS not just the ones who can afford it.

True.  We need a lot of things in this country, but if we are going to wait for these things to magically happen, we will be 100 years old or dead by the time they do.  I believe that Thundra gave excellent tips on how to save for SRS.  For some, it may sound like "winning the lottery" or pure "theory".  Well, sorry to disappoint you kitty cats but it can be done.

As I said on a different topic, I know people who come from the poorest neighborhoods in the city where I am from.  People who have had to deal with extreme poverty, drug addiction and many other things but who have managed to climb to the surface.  Have you read the story of Christine Beatty (to name someone who is known in the community)?  Well, I know several "Christine Beattys" whose names are not famous or recognizable in the TG community but who have followed exactly the same path.  No one is saying that it is an easy thing to accomplish.  In fact, it is one of the hardest challenges anyone can overcome, but it isn't an impossibility...so what are you going to do?  wait for the fairy Bushy to give us free health care or try to accomplish what you need yourself? Huh?

tink

Oh I agree. I was just lamenting the health care situation in this country. I am very fortunate. If I want something (anything, my folks will foot the bill. (not rich, but spoilt) But many TS are out there risking their lives for the funds to have surgery and what not and that saddens me.

Quote from: melissa90299 on July 23, 2007, 12:44:26 AM
I just want to throw up, quite frankly, when people cry woe is me.

Clever words

Quote from: Nero on July 22, 2007, 02:07:53 PM
what we need in this country is health care and treatment for all TS not just the ones who can afford it.

Yes, socio-economic status is a big determinant of transition outcome, but it goes far beyond just the health care system.  There are many costs other than therapy, hormones, and surgery.  What do you do when the cost of electrolysis mounts up?  Let alone even one session of laser?  What if you need voice therapy?  Hair replacement or wigs?  These are all things that are out of pocket expenses. 

And they're not just yes/no problems.  If you spend $1000 on electrolysis the outcome will be better than if you only spend $500.  How much is enough?  How much money you have is going to affect your answer.

in a lot of places, you CANT loose your employment  because of this... if you go about it the right way of course....
and it need not be financial ruin if you plan correctly, expensive yes, ruin no.
not every 'standard' ->-bleeped-<- expendature are needed, voice therapy, therapy, ffs etc arnt always required...

QuoteAs I reflect what I have accomplished while I am waiting for Kitty to be unwrapped tomorrow and while the puppies are settling in, I am truly amazed that I was able to do this in really three years.

I just want to throw up, quite frankly, when people cry woe is me.

I grew up in a poverty stricken area.  I was held at knife point every day in junior high while I was searched for money.  I was beaten every week because I was one of the minority kids in school.  Yes, whites can be and are minorities in some places. This discrimination was a very educational experience in my life.  While I learned nothing in school just trying to stay alive, I did learn valuable life lessons in understanding what it is like to live in poverty.  It has given me a dimension of compassion and understanding that few have.

My dad told me that he wanted to help me with college but he could not.  He loaned me money for a calculator which I later paid back. This was what he could do at the time. I don't begrudge him for it.

I went to college.  I knew I'd need a degree to be successful.  I worked hard to get through it.  I earned two scholarships which covered a minute part of the expense, but I still had to work mostly full time to pay for my schooling and living expenses.

When I transitioned, I had a rocketing career, I was married, and had two children.  My transition threw all of that to the wind.  I had to start over while paying alimony and child support. I lost a fortune in investments. I did not have enough money to cover my basic living expenses, but I found creative ways to get by and to cover the transition costs.

I did work 80 to 100 hours a week.  I quit spending money on things that I did not absolutely need.  I saved every penny and worked on building good credit. I paid every bill on time.

I paid for my surgery within three years.  I built another career. I built another fortune and lost it. I've been working on my family ever since and have managed to salvage something there... not all.  I'll never build another fortune although I know that I could if I wanted to.  It's not my gig at this point in my life. I'll get by just fine without one.

I sympathize with those of you who are struggling.  I really do.  I know how it is.  I've been there. But if you want it.  If you really want it, you can get it.  Lament all you want, but it takes action and planning to make it work.

Social class has nothing to do with successful transition.  I know people who have lost their status and money and had to start over.  I myself have had to rebuild my life a couple times.  Hey... what's life without a struggle?

While I can sympathize with you, if you haven't planned, if you won't work for it, if you won't save, I'm afraid that you have dug your own hole.  Get with it kids. You can do it.  "DO" don't lament.  It's an action word.

Chin up!
Cindi

Only the myths you've heard