I saw an article today but I cannot find it to quote.

So this is not my idea but what I read. And I may have the detail wrong but....

A parent told their child that they could not be transgender, the child said but I need to live as me, it is normal and right for me.

I want and need to live as me.

No you are confused no one can really be transgender.

OK the child said. You dress and live as your opposite gender for a month and then tell me how it feels.

Because then you will know how I feel every second of every day.

Interesting.

How many parents would?

http://www.inquisitr.com/315554/german-dad-wears-skirts-to-support-dress-wearing-son/

Hope you don't mind me sharing, but it's an incredibly beautiful story

Quote from: Cindy on November 20, 2013, 04:42:24 AM
I saw an article today but I cannot find it to quote.

So this is not my idea but what I read. And I may have the detail wrong but....

A parent told their child that they could not be transgender, the child said but I need to live as me, it is normal and right for me.

I want and need to live as me.

No you are confused no one can really be transgender.

OK the child said. You dress and live as your opposite gender for a month and then tell me how it feels.

Because then you will know how I feel every second of every day.

Interesting.

How many parents would?

How many parents would understand, even after hearing this? Parents usually have their own vision for their children's futures. If their children don't meet that vision in any way, they often try their hardest to "fix" that "problem." In the case of being transgender or homosexual, this also becomes a religious or social issue for many - nobody wants their child to face the pain of the world... yet they're more than willing to convince or force their child to face their own internal pain.

In my case, I wasn't forceful enough about it. My parents rejected it twice, and that was the last they heard of it until now.

there where a transguy who did the same with pronouncing for his father once.

i tell people this all the time.  Sometimes its just whats needed to get the message across

If I'm arguing with someone who doesn't believe being transgendered is a real thing or doesn't support it, I try to get them to imagine what it's like to be referred to by the pronouns of the opposite sex all the time or be forced to wear their clothes. Doubt they bother though. >.<

I hope I can get to the point where playing those mind games with people is funny and ironic (for everyone)...
Calling my brother "she" when he screws up my pronouns, for example.

I'm not nearly at that stage - these people are going to have an impossible time giving up my birth name and especially my birth nickname... and it will probably be after next Christmas that I ask them to do that.

Feeling so lucky on that note.  Everyone is calling me Sophia after a month.

Actually, I think it is a great exercise, literally or just figuratively.  Kind of like that advice columnist who advised a woman (who wanted advice on how to get her boy to quit being gay) to show her son how easy it was by changing her own orientation for a month.  Lead by example, parents. 

If someone could show me the way to be comfortable and happy in my biological body and societal role, I *know* I would be interested.  Especially considering I tried really, really hard in a lot of different ways for 39 years.  I'm facing a lot of expensive and painful treatments as well as a whole lot of adjustments in order to *be* comfortable and happy with the way I present myself and behave.  So yes, CIS-gender person who doesn't believe in transgender issues, please show me that gender is a choice by simply deciding to change.  And then have all your friends do it, then their friends.

I guess that's one of the reason's I'm a fan of the "Walk a Mile in Her Shoes" events to promote understanding, when men are challenged (and many do) to walk one mile in high heels.  It would be lovely if we could orchestrate some kind of awareness campaign, not to trivialize transgender issues, but to promote understanding.  National Gender Swap day, perhaps.  I know, I know, it's probably a non-starter, at least now...  But it's fun to think about, and it may catch on when Gen Y is in the management seat of government and business...

Meanwhile, I'll keep dreaming and working to make my dreams come true for future generations.

I say something similar, but I say "for the rest of your life" instead of a month.

I also invite them to imagine what it would be like if they woke up suddenly and their body was the opposite sex. They wanted to wear clothes and act like members of their own sex but everyone sees that obviously they are the opposite sex and tells them that acting the way they want is unnatural. They try to tell people that they're not really what their body says they are, but no one will listen, since that obviously never really happens.

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 21, 2013, 12:14:15 PM
I say something similar, but I say "for the rest of your life" instead of a month.

I also invite them to imagine what it would be like if they woke up suddenly and their body was the opposite sex. They wanted to wear clothes and act like members of their own sex but everyone sees that obviously they are the opposite sex and tells them that acting the way they want is unnatural. They try to tell people that they're not really what their body says they are, but no one will listen, since that obviously never really happens.

I like "dress & act like a woman for a month" one better. This other one usually gets me comments like how they'd just play with themselves all day blehhh... girls and guys fall victim to these sorts of superficial thoughts. Being treated as something you're not is not something they think of all on their own. Giving them the "wake up as the opposite sex" visualization, then walking them through a day in that gender's shoes could work.

Quote from: Robin Mack on November 21, 2013, 12:10:07 PM
If someone could show me the way to be comfortable and happy in my biological body and societal role, I *know* I would be interested.  Especially considering I tried really, really hard in a lot of different ways for 39 years.  I'm facing a lot of expensive and painful treatments as well as a whole lot of adjustments in order to *be* comfortable and happy with the way I present myself and behave.  So yes, CIS-gender person who doesn't believe in transgender issues, please show me that gender is a choice by simply deciding to change.  And then have all your friends do it, then their friends.

This is the hard part about coming out later in life. 35 years of trying to fit society's (and my parents') expectations... and I finally got fed up with it. Instead of being praised (not that I'm surprised I wasn't) for being so strong at living through those years and at finally being true to myself... I get stuff along the lins of "why didn't you save us all the pain of your wife and kids and come out 20 years earlier" and "we never subscribed to gender roles, so you being closeted isn't our fault." I just don't think you can truly make anyone understand who is very close to you. I'm only dealing with family inquisitions right now... so maybe these tricks are more useful for the friends and acquaintances in your life.

Nobody expects the Family Inquisition!

Quote from: kabit on November 21, 2013, 12:24:23 PM
I like "dress & act like a woman for a month" one better. This other one usually gets me comments like how they'd just play with themselves all day blehhh... girls and guys fall victim to these sorts of superficial thoughts. Being treated as something you're not is not something they think of all on their own. Giving them the "wake up as the opposite sex" visualization, then walking them through a day in that gender's shoes could work.

This is the hard part about coming out later in life. 35 years of trying to fit society's (and my parents') expectations... and I finally got fed up with it. Instead of being praised (not that I'm surprised I wasn't) for being so strong at living through those years and at finally being true to myself... I get stuff along the lins of "why didn't you save us all the pain of your wife and kids and come out 20 years earlier" and "we never subscribed to gender roles, so you being closeted isn't our fault." I just don't think you can truly make anyone understand who is very close to you. I'm only dealing with family inquisitions right now... so maybe these tricks are more useful for the friends and acquaintances in your life.

Nobody expects the Family Inquisition!

When it comes to family you just need to tell them the truth.  To some degree, transgender-ism is a serious medical condition.   Alot of people kill themselves because they just cant handle not being the gender they know they are.    I can't speak for you but, i told my dad whose hostile about this.   I would die a very slow death as a man.  Being the woman i am is the only way to survive and thrive as a person for me. I Also told him that if he couldnt handle what im doing that it would cause us to go separate ways.  You don't need negative non-loving people in your life.  You are 35 Years old, time to make your own decisions about what you really want or get what you need.    This why, im glad most of my family was supportive.   I'd have walked away from all of them to transition and still would.  This shown to everyone that I was incredibly serious.

Quote from: Sophia Hawke on November 21, 2013, 01:17:50 PM
When it comes to family you just need to tell them the truth.  To some degree, transgender-ism is a serious medical condition.   Alot of people kill themselves because they just cant handle not being the gender they know they are.    I can't speak for you but, i told my dad whose hostile about this.   I would die a very slow death as a man.  Being the woman i am is the only way to survive and thrive as a person for me. I Also told him that if he couldnt handle what im doing that it would cause us to go separate ways.  You don't need negative non-loving people in your life.  You are 35 Years old, time to make your own decisions about what you really want or get what you need.    This why, im glad most of my family was supportive.   I'd have walked away from all of them to transition and still would.  This shown to everyone that I was incredibly serious.

They're negative and LOVING though... what do I do then

I've explained it in every way possible. It's a medical condition ("that's what you believe" says my father... OK Mr. Science )... it's circumstance, not anyone's fault... I was dying slowly (carbs & diabetes) and would start dying more quickly if I tried to go back in (food, complete social withdrawl, possibly alcohol or other problems) -- their response is that I cannot know that and it isn't fair to say I'd kill myself (yeah... never said that... never would do it - except slowly). The big sticking point is the kids. (three of them, 8 and under). I basically cannot do anything right with them in my family's eyes.

The only thing that has worked is describing dysphoria as well as I can (not particularly well...) and breaking down sobbing for 10 minutes in front of my parents ~ from the "boy" who never cries I think that got through to them.

We're actually in a halfway decent state right now... they don't reject me outright, they're just marginalizing me and putting my bigoted BIL first because it's his right to reject me so his kids don't have to see me transition or be fully transitioned - they're innocent and should stay that way for the long term because they're only something like 6 and 3.

Sorry for the rant... but I've tried everything except keeping quiet and waiting it out. I've been told multiple times by my father that he doesn't want to understand what I'm going through and doesn't need to... he's more than willing to treat me as a standard outcast... able to be interacted with, unless one of the important people has a problem with who I am - in which case I should be uninvited to that family gathering. He's said outright that he wants to look at me statistically... that is cissexistly (the marriage breaking up is my fault because 97% of marriages with one partner coming out break up).

Again... sorry... these people are insane and we need time away from each other (she says as we head right into the holiday storm).

Quote from: kabit on November 21, 2013, 11:46:16 AM
I'm not nearly at that stage - these people are going to have an impossible time giving up my birth name and especially my birth nickname... and it will probably be after next Christmas that I ask them to do that.

The only thing I want from my parents for Christmas is to have them start calling me by my new name and refer to me by the proper pronouns. My mom admitted it would be tough for them, but hey, my dad already calls me by my brother's name sometimes. What's another name?

Quote from: kabit on November 21, 2013, 12:24:23 PM
Nobody expects the Family Inquisition!

ROFL! Very good!

I tried this with my mum she told me I should just deal with the body I was given. I told her to imagine if she woke up tomorrow with a penis and everyone treated her as a man, how would she feel? She told me that was stupid and it's not the same.

Quote from: Joe. on November 21, 2013, 06:11:51 PM
I tried this with my mum she told me I should just deal with the body I was given. I told her to imagine if she woke up tomorrow with a penis and everyone treated her as a man, how would she feel? She told me that was stupid and it's not the same.

Some people simplywill not understand.

"Will" = making a conscious, willful decision to not understand.

aka "sticking her head in the sand"... Just live your life, and put concern for her opinion outside of your interests.

Quote from: kabit on November 21, 2013, 03:48:30 PM
They're negative and LOVING though... what do I do then

I've explained it in every way possible. It's a medical condition ("that's what you believe" says my father... OK Mr. Science )... it's circumstance, not anyone's fault... I was dying slowly (carbs & diabetes) and would start dying more quickly if I tried to go back in (food, complete social withdrawl, possibly alcohol or other problems) -- their response is that I cannot know that and it isn't fair to say I'd kill myself (yeah... never said that... never would do it - except slowly). The big sticking point is the kids. (three of them, 8 and under). I basically cannot do anything right with them in my family's eyes.

The only thing that has worked is describing dysphoria as well as I can (not particularly well...) and breaking down sobbing for 10 minutes in front of my parents ~ from the "boy" who never cries I think that got through to them.

We're actually in a halfway decent state right now... they don't reject me outright, they're just marginalizing me and putting my bigoted BIL first because it's his right to reject me so his kids don't have to see me transition or be fully transitioned - they're innocent and should stay that way for the long term because they're only something like 6 and 3.

Sorry for the rant... but I've tried everything except keeping quiet and waiting it out. I've been told multiple times by my father that he doesn't want to understand what I'm going through and doesn't need to... he's more than willing to treat me as a standard outcast... able to be interacted with, unless one of the important people has a problem with who I am - in which case I should be uninvited to that family gathering. He's said outright that he wants to look at me statistically... that is cissexistly (the marriage breaking up is my fault because 97% of marriages with one partner coming out break up).

Again... sorry... these people are insane and we need time away from each other (she says as we head right into the holiday storm).

If you need to transition, its better to do it without toxic people in your life, family or not.  Just like the BF who want let you meet his family types.  If your family doesnt want to be seen with you, screw them.

Quote from: Sophia Hawke on November 22, 2013, 01:56:39 AM
If you need to transition, its better to do it without toxic people in your life, family or not.

This is so true, and not just in gender transition but anything really. After entering my 20's I knew I had to grow up and do something with my life. I had friends working dead-end fast food jobs, arguing amongst themselves about stupid drama, putting themselves at risk in a variety of ways, and doing drugs to pass the time. One of my friends ended up in prison, another molested his roommate (my best friend at the time) and stole her car, some became coke addicts, and everyone was trying to put me in the middle of things or drag me down with them. As much as I liked them and cared about them at the time, most of them weren't good people and I don't think they really cared about me. I had to watch out for myself and do the hard thing, I completely dropped them from my life. I stayed home and put my head down, didn't answer calls, quit cigs and drugs, and tried to turn my life around. Aside from transitioning, it was the best decision I ever made. When you're surrounded by negative people that aren't concerned for your happiness, you just gotta be strong and break-free from them.

I think it just hasn't really sunk in yet that this is something I need, not something I want. My plan now is to just give them all time... and not talk about it at all.