Hi all, Vanya here 

I wasn't sure if this was the right section, but I had a question concerning the head circumference and shape as hinderance to passing.

Ahem... Being an owner of a cannonball (alas) I like to call a head, also coupled with a very broad but skinny shoulders, I was thinking about what head circuference do YOU consider being borderline in passing. Well, that concept sounds ridiculous - I know - I'm aware there is no standard by which one would say "this is the point where you're OK, but above this it's too big"...
But eversince I became aware of my transgender "status" :confused: I started researching into body proportions and average body measurements.
It, on one hand made feel a bit better about myself, but on the other it did stir some questions...

Buuut... what I was really wondering about is, is the average head circumference for female of 53-58cm (20.8-22.8inch) realistic? Also, this is supposed to include hair into the account (or is it?) and the number will warry from place to place.

I've measured with a soft tape just above my ears letting all the hair fall over the tape, trying to simulate a lean head measurement without hair,
and it ammounted to 56.6 (22 1/3 inch). Do you think this is too large? My hair is very unruly but with tape over it it measures up to 57.8 or 22 3/4 inch, or hat size 7 1/4.
What worries me even more is my crown circumference which is roughly the same size, maybe half-an-inch smaller, making mine a very oddly-shaped skull.

Hugs, Vanya.

I've never thought about measuring my skull size

Maybe yours has never given you concerns... On the other hand, the fact you never have thought about it could be a good thing. I have made extensive research on body measurements and it got me nowhere, to be honest. But I did that in the first place because of the awareness of my body image and not from anyone else's suggestion. I was conscious how peculiarly shaped and proportioned my body is.

I know my 2 nd and 4 th digits are proportioned the same as female digits both being of equal length rather then one being longer than the other as in males.

With me the it's in favour of 4D, but this gives me comfort...

QuoteThe 2D:4D digit ratio is sexually dimorphic: while the second digit is typically shorter in both females and males, the difference between the lengths of the two digits is greater in males than in females.

source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio

I seriously don't think that people are going to look at someone with boobs, female skin, wearing women's clothes, and with long hair, and somehow say "oop, that person's head is too big. Totally not a woman."

Everyone has a ton of worries about passing, things that they're sure that are too male to ever pass with. And in most cases, by the time the rest of the body and the mannerisms and the presentation works out, these things end up being things that only the person inside the body notices... everyone else just sees a woman, and is shocked that you seriously think that such a thing keeps you from passing.

And this is coming from someone whose head is a whopping 24 inches around. (What can I say? I just have a big sexy brain. )

Quote from: Carrie Liz on November 20, 2013, 02:01:23 PM
I seriously don't think that people are going to look at someone with boobs, female skin, wearing women's clothes, and with long hair, and somehow say "oop, that person's head is too big. Totally not a woman."

Yeah, as I said, a really ridiculous concept. But I was really worried about my head shape and size... it's size has seriously started to get in my face everytime I look in the mirror ever since I stopped HRT, and I'm really starting to doubt my passability now, coupled with all the masculine features coming back.
Your head looks very well proportioned to your body. I don't see it as a hinderance to your passability, but I do mine somehow.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on November 20, 2013, 02:01:23 PM(What can I say? I just have a big sexy brain. )

I just wanted to keep this quoted if I may. 

I also have a large head.  Never measured it but have trouble with hats of all sorts.  However, on TV I never fail to look when women and men are standing or closely interacting.  Many women have heads and faces far larger than the men they are with.  Many are quite beautiful.  We would all love to be petite, but often it ain't gonna happen!  Makeup can change the apparent size of various aspects of your face.  Wearing the right neckline, jewelry to misdirect the eye etc. can contribute much to the overall effect.  Women have been doing it for years.  It just takes time, effort, and money.

No one thing is going to get people to stop and gawk and question your gender. It is when a bunch of little things add up I think. Why'd you stop HRT? That certainly isn't going to help. I feel like my head is too big. But it's 21.25 inches and I almost never get misgendered unless I make a lot of effort to pass as a boy. I don't pass as a girl. I am girl, so I don't need to pass by definition. The only people who say HE is my family.

I think the quickest way to get spotted is the way you carry yourself. If you get the walk down, the talk down, and have the confidence that you are A girl, then nobody will question. It is when you feel like your getting spotted that you start doubting yourself and then you will get spotted.

I have a head circumference of 22" even. Being 5'4" and 131 pounds it would think it's rather large. Doesn't effect how I feel I look to much. Just means I need a bigger hat and mess up the neck holes in some of my shirts.
You could always look at someone like Giada De Laurentiis, her head seems quite large for her body size. I couldn't tell you the circumference of her head but just at a glance it appears to be on the larger side. She looks lovely. I believe it is your attitude and how you carry yourself the effect passing.

I think you might be overthinking this... especially given that your head measurement fits within the range of cis females you cited? If it's any consolation, I haven't measured my head, but the pictures I've taken of me cheek to cheek with cis female friends do show that my head is noticeably larger. (Of course, they are a bit shorter and more lightly built, too.) On the other hand, not one person has ever noticed that my head is disproportionately large or anything; I think, as others have said, that head size is not something people generally use as a gender cue as long as it's within reason. Which yours clearly is.

Man... the things we get sub conscious about...

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on November 20, 2013, 07:06:48 PM
Man... the things we get sub conscious about...

Indeed. My head was considered enormous when it was presumably a man's head. It is still exactly the size it was, but now it tends to be covered by a lot of hair, so even though you'd think people would remark all day long about the enormous noggin on that lady, they never do. They just complement me on my hairstyle and fashion sense. I am a popular, happy woman with an enormous head. And other than making it tougher to find hats or wigs, it hasn't held me back at all.

"Off with her head!" Red Queen to Alice (and often, to everyone else)



I came in here thinking it was about penis measurements...and I wanted to know why we'd be so interested in that...

Shows a little bit in how I think, I think.

fwiw, my cranium is a 7 3/8 hat, and is 24 1/8" around. Yes, I knew I had a big head but I also have big shoulders and narrow hips. What can I do about any of these things? Not a damn thing. So I don't concern myself with them.

just my humble O.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on November 20, 2013, 03:35:03 PM
No one thing is going to get people to stop and gawk and question your gender. It is when a bunch of little things add up I think. Why'd you stop HRT? That certainly isn't going to help. I feel like my head is too big. But it's 21.25 inches and I almost never get misgendered unless I make a lot of effort to pass as a boy. I don't pass as a girl. I am girl, so I don't need to pass by definition. The only people who say HE is my family.

Yeah, I know, but I sometimes get super-paranoid especially when some girl with features smaller than mine is around, and I get that from this girl at my workplace. Not that I'm jealous or anything, it just gets into my head very hard and I go stare at the mirror and become increasingly paranoid. Sometimes even boys my age raise my body disphoria for how smaller their head, face width, etc is.
The main reason for stopping HRT was... FEAR. Fear of losing everything, family, being ostracised, being unable to find another job if I continued with this. My environment is not at all conducive for people who choose to transition, UNLESS you really look 100% female. I think that would help. People do not take kindly to anything that doesn't fit the standard two gender-mould.
If I had the funds now I'd resume HRT but unfortunately that's delayed untill at least beginning next year. But right now I have a job that get physically demanding and even now with testosterone at more or less natural MAAB levels it's hard to perform. If I had the chance to move to USA I would in a heartbeat.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on November 21, 2013, 01:46:46 AM
"Off with her head!" Red Queen to Alice (and often, to everyone else)



I came in here thinking it was about penis measurements...and I wanted to know why we'd be so interested in that...

Shows a little bit in how I think, I think.

fwiw, my cranium is a 7 3/8 hat, and is 24 1/8" around. Yes, I knew I had a big head but I also have big shoulders and narrow hips. What can I do about any of these things? Not a damn thing. So I don't concern myself with them.

just my humble O.

Your post made me laugh. Why indeed would we be interested in penis sizes? :O Hmmm, I think there's a potential topic right there.

You should take a look at my shoulder and hips. It's like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Dustin Hoffman crossover. Arnold shoulders on Hoffman hips.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on November 20, 2013, 04:58:05 PM
I think you might be overthinking this... especially given that your head measurement fits within the range of cis females you cited? If it's any consolation, I haven't measured my head, but the pictures I've taken of me cheek to cheek with cis female friends do show that my head is noticeably larger. (Of course, they are a bit shorter and more lightly built, too.) On the other hand, not one person has ever noticed that my head is disproportionately large or anything; I think, as others have said, that head size is not something people generally use as a gender cue as long as it's within reason. Which yours clearly is.

I might be overthinking it. Probably am. My head only fits within the range with all hair out of the way and with the band tightened over the skin. If I let my hair fall down and measure over it it amounts to about 22 3/4 (57. which is still ok... But I can't stop being overly conscious about it, especially in the situations you mentioned.
But I guess it's a result of ceasing action (stopping HRT) thus losing control over my life and doing too much thinking and worrying. Thanks for your assurement and kind words.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on November 20, 2013, 07:06:48 PM
Man... the things we get sub conscious about...

Yeah, I'm full of 'em. Want in on a couple of those?

I hear you about loss of control meaning you focus on and fret over the small things.

It seems likely that the cis female measurements were also without taking hair into account (or they should be, at any rate!). Also, the hair may work in your favor - I noticed the strangest thing, that I was super paranoid about being too tall, but wearing higher heels made people think I was SHORTER. They constantly misjudged the heel height and figured 5" heels (really about 3"!) meant I was 5" shorter than I looked (or about 2" shorter than I really was). In other words, your best bet might be to go with kinda big hair and people will assume that it's a lot of big hair on a smaller head. People just do not look that closely most of the time, so if you give them an easy explanation for the apparently larger head (lots of hair), they'll take that and ignore the whole issue.