Ok, I know I said I'd wait, but my patience is wearing thin Anyways, I'm keeping it really soft and gentle, and these are the ONLY words I'm saying for the entire day. It was a little easier already to get phonation. I was also able to actually measure it this time too.

Here's the sound clip:
https://soundcloud.com/theartoflogic/how-does-this-sound/s-5DGzD

And here is the measurement in Praat:


As you can see, the average frequency is 225Hz. The highest frequency is 271Hz and the lowest is 192Hz. That's almost at the 229Hz that Dr. Kim said I'd end up, although it's still really early in the recovery and it'll likely shift up or down as I go along. Again, I wasn't paying attention to anything except phonation, so resonance, intonation, etc. are definitely lacking in this recording. It's also still really breathy and hoarse. Let me know what you guys think!

I really think you are not giving credit where it's due. At no time did Dr. Kim ever make it seem like I would immediately have a feminine voice without any additional work. He made it very clear that I would still have to train myself to actually use the higher frequency. He also made it clear what the recovery period is like, with the first 2 months being almost no change and then a gradual change from that point on up to the 6-month mark, and a full recovery after 1 year (so long as you follow all of the instructions, obviously). Yes, it seems some have faster results, but unless you've actually followed all of his post-op instructions, had no complications, and have waited the full year, I don't think it's fair to lay blame on Dr. Kim or the surgical technique as to why you are not hearing the results you're looking for. Also, sometimes there are unfortunate anomalies.

Kiwi, you explicitly said that you talked and/or whispered a lot after the surgery, especially within that first week, which is a big no-no. I don't find it surprising that your early recovery and results are not as quick to come as, say, Jenny's. Also, if you didn't want to wait a year before seeing the full results then why did you get the surgery to begin with knowing that that was going to be the case? All of the details Jenny and I have been describing are things that I'm sure Dr. Kim expressed to you as well, I don't see why he wouldn't have. And even if not, you had Jenny's descriptions to go off of, since you were aware of her recovery process well before you had your surgery, since you were posting in her thread the whole time. It sounds like you went in with the wrong expectations.

voodle, unfortunately for you I would have to say that the whole issue with the blood clot and coughing in the beginning may be the cause of your lack of results. With that type of complication so early on coupled with not seeing the results you're hoping, it makes sense. I can definitely understand why it would be hard to not be able to talk for a full 2 months, but if I had an issue like that after a surgery I would want to make sure I try to follow what the doctor says to make sure I do everything I can to get the best results. Did you actually stay quiet for 2 months? If not then I really don't know what to tell you, as you didn't follow the instructions given to you. Have you tried contacting Dr. Kim again to see what other options you have? Maybe there is something else he would recommend to help the recovery so you can see better results, or even a redo of the surgery...? Really, to me I think your recordings before were good, so we're kind of coming at this from two different angles.

I don't want to seem like I'm just blindly backing Yeson, but from what I've heard I don't see anything that skews the results and promises that Yeson describes. So far we can see that those who had no complications and followed the instructions are having good results and those that did have complications or didn't follow the instructions are having less-than-anticipated results. I say it that way since I myself don't think either voodle or Kiwi's voices sound bad. Yeah, they're not necessarily as high as Jenny or Abby's, but they definitely don't sound male to me.

Sarah, yoursmall words there sound already really nice. Probably you can only hear them when you poke the mic almost into your mouth but thats ok for now
If this is any indication - it seems that you got the same initially great result as Jenny did and so if you follow the same healing path it will certainly be great! 225Hz - thats way up there. I think I would not even want that - But I would not get it anyways. totally makes sense though 150+75->225. Exactly on par.

What you say about the issues of Kiwi and voodle makes some sense. I get the impression that maybe that recovery period is really crucial. People I conversed with here in Germany told me that the glottoplasty is something that can cause hoarseness or a lack in change in pitch. The few reports I read about it did not indicate to me that patients were given as strict instructions as in Korea. Maybe a key difference actually is the aftercare. I have a theory, I dont know if it makes sense: If you strain your vocal chords immediately after surgery, the parts that have been operated on may be tender and stretch more easily, so the vocal chords actually increase a bit in length or to put it another way they loose tension. vocal chord tension is a major factor in pitch (there are VFS that focus solely on vocal chord tensioning). I they give way only ba a millimeter, that may be quite a dramatic effect I can imagine. Another issue may be scarring - if the chords are hurt, they may scar and thus thicken and thick vocal chords are another issue that causes pitch drop. Puberty for us did two things - the larynx grew and thus the chords became longer and the chords grew thicker - both caused a deeper voice. The sad thing about this is the I can imagine that you cannot really redo that surgery and get improvements unless you go to a higher closure of the opening, I personally think 1/3 is already the max, but it seems 50% are possible. So if you got a 1/3 suture you may go to 50% but thats it then. Or you have to choose another technique. I know that one TV-transgender woman had first a vocal chord stretching with little success, then a glottoplasty (Y-suture) with again not much success and then went to Portland for a complete reconstruction of the larynx and afterwards sounds fine but the voice has lost some quality from all of this.

Sarah- I agree 100% with your last post. Honestly I'm feeling quite exhausted from all of the explaining and re-explaining. Frequently feeling like I need to defend Yeson doesn't seem right to me when the person pointing a finger at them did not heed the post-op instructions. Even more-so, if a person doesn't do the necessary amount of research about recovery timetables for such a major life altering surgery- how is that being ripped off I don't want to be stuck in this position any further having to back up the credibility of this amazing procedure. It speaks for itself in the results of those of us who did their research and explicitly follow the post-op care instructions.

Kiwi- I am referring to you in my comment to Sarah. It seems like every other day or so you want to get on these boards and negatively flame about your Yeson experience somehow, and frankly I am tired of it. I don't think it's right or fair to try to post negativity about Yeson, when in reality if you are unhappy with your result it will be due to error or disregard of pre-op information on your part. To make things even more confusing, you tend to come back right after a negative post with a positive one saying how you love your voice. I cannot handle all of this back and forth. I think you should take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming it on Yeson on a public forum. As you can see, we are not going to tolerate it.

voodle- While you haven't been pointing fingers at all and have been very straightforward and understanding with the reality of your situation, you did choose to disregard Dr. Kim's instructions as well. I think at this point you need to be honest with Jessie about it if you haven't already. Maybe there is something else she can recommend to help you out. After hearing your voice though, your result sounds just fine to me. If I were to hear your samples with no comment or description attached, I would think it is another shining example of Yeson VFS. I think you should be very happy with your result.

Anja- please understand that by voicing concerns to those of us who are pleased with our results based on people who chose to disregard parts of the post-op care is going to wear us out. I know you are concerned about so many aspects of this procedure, but perhaps your questions are being fueled by experiences that were more the product of patient error than error in the procedure itself. I think that these fine details or potential issues you seek to know more about are much better taken up with Jessie who can talk to the doctor himself. After all, he has the most experience with seeing the results of the surgery and has done all of the research.

And last but not least... Sarah... your newest recording.. I can't believe how good your voice sounds already. Holy what?! 225hz off the bat?? I have no doubt that you are going to have a stellar result, and I can't wait to hear more

In the end, I think these recent discussions are a shining example of how important post-op recovery care is for this surgery. The voice is one of the most delicate parts of our bodies and needs to be treated as such- no matter how risk-free or minimally invasive the approach.

Quote from: Jennygirl on November 22, 2013, 04:30:39 PM
Sarah- I agree 100% with your last post. Honestly I'm feeling quite exhausted from all of the explaining and re-explaining. Frequently feeling like I need to defend Yeson doesn't seem right to me when the person pointing a finger at them did not heed the post-op instructions. Even more-so, if a person doesn't do the necessary amount of research about recovery timetables for such a major life altering surgery- how is that being ripped off I don't want to be stuck in this position any further having to back up the credibility of this amazing procedure. It speaks for itself in the results of those of us who did their research and explicitly follow the post-op care instructions.

Kiwi- I am referring to you in my comment to Sarah. It seems like every other day or so you want to get on these boards and negatively flame about your Yeson experience somehow, and frankly I am tired of it. I don't think it's right or fair to try to post negativity about Yeson, when in reality if you are unhappy with your result it will be due to error or disregard of pre-op information on your part. To make things even more confusing, you tend to come back right after a negative post with a positive one saying how you love your voice. I cannot handle all of this back and forth. I think you should take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming it on Yeson on a public forum. As you can see, we are not going to tolerate it.

voodle- While you haven't been pointing fingers at all and have been very straightforward and understanding with the reality of your situation, you did choose to disregard Dr. Kim's instructions as well. I think at this point you need to be honest with Jessie about it if you haven't already. Maybe there is something else she can recommend to help you out. After hearing your voice though, your result sounds just fine to me. If I were to hear your samples with no comment or description attached, I would think it is another shining example of Yeson VFS. I think you should be very happy with your result.

Anja- please understand that by voicing concerns to those of us who are pleased with our results based on people who chose to disregard parts of the post-op care is going to wear us out. I know you are concerned about so many aspects of this procedure, but perhaps your questions are being fueled by experiences that were more the product of patient error than error in the procedure itself. I think that these fine details or potential issues you seek to know more about are much better taken up with Jessie who can talk to the doctor himself. After all, he has the most experience with seeing the results of the surgery and has done all of the research.

And last but not least... Sarah... your newest recording.. I can't believe how good your voice sounds already. Holy what?! 225hz off the bat?? I have no doubt that you are going to have a stellar result, and I can't wait to hear more

In the end, I think these recent discussions are a shining example of how important post-op recovery care is for this surgery. The voice is one of the most delicate parts of our bodies and needs to be treated as such- no matter how risk-free or minimally invasive the approach.

Jenny welcome to my world. re explaining and defending your doctor is now your new second job...or maybe 3rd job.. 

Please do not post things here claiming I have said them.  READ my posts and you will see that I am thrilled with this surgery.  My personal experience at Yeson was not pleasant but that had nothing to do with my voice.  It was to do with having a bridge knocked out and an orange sized bruise on my shoulder which no one can explain.

I spoke with Jessie last week and she was happy with my voice.  So am I, and some have commented about it here.

Chinese Whispers...are happening here and I don't like it. 

Being ripped off was in no way meant to refer to Yeson, I meant it generally because of who we are.

Chinese Whispers are happening here and I don't like it!

Okay friends 

Having a discussion is fine, but when it turns into arguing and such then it's time to take a break

Topic locked

Thank you

V M

Okay Folks 

Let's review a few rules from the Site Terms of Service and rules to live by

Quote7. Leave moderation to the moderators! Susan and her staff are the only people who are authorized to deny anyone access to this web site including telling someone to leave, or to stop discussing a topic.  If someone wishes to discuss a subject that you are not interested in,  suggest a new subject; go to another of the many areas on this site; or ignore that person, topic, or discussion. If you feel a person's post violates the rules of this site use the report this post function.

Quote10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:
Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term
Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more legitimate, deserving, or more real than any others

Quote15. Items under discussion shall be confined to the subject matter at hand, members shall avoid taking the other users posts personally, and/or posting anything that can reasonably be construed as a personal attack.

Keep the conversation civil, any more finger pointing and/or arguing will not be tolerated and penalties will be issued for any further rule violations

Play nice or find something more constructive to do with your time

Topic Unlocked

Thank you

V M

Thank you, V.M - I definitely want to hear more about Sarahs so far great experiences in Korea. I hope you will keep writing, Sarah even if there was a bit of discussion in the past posts now. But as you and the others said - Kiwi seems to actually still be positive about her result overall, voodle is discovering how to get along with her voice now after the complications she had and hopefully find a way to improve, maybe with Jessies help, Jenny and Abby did really great , probably because they had less complications and as it seems, you have no complications, so you will be doing great!!!   
So you will soon be on your way back from Korea or will you have another exam there after 10 or 14 days? What will be next - just waiting for the 4 week timepoint to test some more words? Will you do a examination when you are back home with a specialist there? they should at least be able to see if the healing looks fine, just to be sure...

You are doing great so far and I am excited to hear about your experiences with doing this after a long time of using a feminized voice already.

Greetings.
Anja

Quote from: anjaq on November 23, 2013, 08:06:15 AM
- Kiwi seems to actually still be positive about her result overall
Anja

I have always been.  And thrilled that we can have this surgery.  For the cost I think it is good value for money.  Why (and how) other's interpreted my not being happy (with my VFS) is a mystery known only to the person who started it.  Chinese Whispers...

Of course I wasn't pleased about having a bridge knocked out of my mouth (during surgery) or the mystery orange-sized bruise on my shoulder, or being called "he"...but my thread has my voice on it and like I said, I couldn't be happier.  Just waiting to start my voice exercises...

This came from Jessie (Yeson) on November 5th...Dear Hope

It's glad to hear from you, Hope. You are still in the recovery stage that it is possible that you wouldn't notice any pitch increase.
From the time you do your vocal function exercise, you will notice gradual increase in your pitch. You can start the exercises on December 8th.
Please refer to the link below. You can follow this video one month later.

Great, Kiwi - Keep us updated when you do start with the exercises in 2 weeks

So I'm finally officially 2 weeks post-op today (well, at 3pm PST really). I did another voice recording this morning and it's getting a lot better with each new day! There are two recordings I'm going to share. One is from last night and the other is from this morning. They are both the same phrase, but the one from this morning sounds waaay better! I'm not sure if it's because I was focusing on it more this morning, or it was just late last night and I was tired, or I actually healed more, but either way I love how it's starting to sound, especially for only being 2 weeks post-op!

You might recognize the phrase I took Jenny's phrase that she posted around this same time in her recovery so I could have a good baseline to compare the quality of our voices. From what I can tell I'm pretty much on the same path as her with regard to voice quality and pitch during the recovery.

Recording #1

So here's the first recording from last night. You can hear that I'm still not focusing really on resonance or anything, so it still has a sort of falsetto-y, breathy, hoarse sound to it. The pitch is there, but without any additional voice control it still kind of sounds weird. The average frequency is 211Hz, with a low of 175Hz and a high of 264Hz.

https://soundcloud.com/theartoflogic/just-a-little-test/s-MUscz



Recording #2

And here's the second recording from this morning. If you can tell, there's a lot more vocal control in this one and so it sounds much more natural. The average frequency is 217Hz, with a low of 189Hz and a high of 287Hz.

https://soundcloud.com/theartoflogic/just-a-little-test-2/s-zV7kE



---

For accessibility, here is a link to the entire set of recordings I've done so far: https://soundcloud.com/theartoflogic/sets/yeson

You are right, the second one from the morning is better and actually it really is great! You really are on the same good path as Jenny was at that stage, so I am sure you will do great!


Hehe, I just emailed Jessie (?) to ask for email contact now to get first contact there, when I get my endocope videos I will send her ans ask what they think. What do they need for an assessment if their method would be working and to say if it is something that really would be needed or not? Should I also send voice recordings? Or dont they do a lot of assessment and consultation before and you just make the decision and make an appointment, fly there and get your examination there and then the surgery no matter what (unless the exam turns out to show a contraindication)?

Wonderful, Sarah You are doing extremely well, it sounds!

Anja- send it all to them. I bet Dr. Kim will have a look at it and appreciate that you care so much about your vocal cords. Either way it never hurts to try!

Thanks guys! I'm extremely happy with the results so far. And it feels good to finally be past the major hurdles, now I think it's just smooth sailing for the next two weeks until I can start general conversation.

I think starting today I'm going to start saying a few limited yes/no responses, since that's really what Dr. Kim said I could do a week ago. It's kind of a little confusing since it says to stick to 2-3 words a day mainly, but when he was explaining it himself he said stick to short yes/no answers throughout the day. So I feel comfortable maybe using it a tiny bit more than just simply 2-3 words a day. I'm still going to stick to probably 15-20 words a day though and no more than 1-3 word responses in general, no more than that as I'm sure the Botox is still going to be affecting my voice, as well as still being within the first month of recovery.

Jenny/Abby, when did you start increasing from 2-3 words a day to something like 15-20 words a day before general conversation? Or did you actually stick to 2-3 words a day for the entire first month?

Sarah, just a question.  Would you say your voice is different (unrecognizable to someone who knew you) or just softened (at this point) in your recovery?

Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on November 25, 2013, 05:15:35 PM
Sarah, just a question.  Would you say your voice is different (unrecognizable to someone who knew you) or just softened (at this point) in your recovery?

As far as pitch goes, I've never really talked in this high of a pitch during general conversation so it'll likely sound different in that regard to people. However, the overall sound of my voice has not changed, and it actually sounds remarkably similar to my pre-op high female voice, albeit softened a bit. I really feel that it's going to end up pretty much at my high female voice that I did pre-op, maybe a little higher, but now that'll be my default with little or no effort as opposed to having to force it into that voice. I actually liked that voice quite a bit, and with the additional changes that the surgery will have made like cutting out the lower register, allowing me to use more of the force to project rather than phonate, and fixing some of the vocal issues I had I think it'll end up turning out exactly how I had hoped. Well, at least that's what I'm aiming for.

Quote
voodle, unfortunately for you I would have to say that the whole issue with the blood clot and coughing in the beginning may be the cause of your lack of results. With that type of complication so early on coupled with not seeing the results you're hoping, it makes sense. I can definitely understand why it would be hard to not be able to talk for a full 2 months, but if I had an issue like that after a surgery I would want to make sure I try to follow what the doctor says to make sure I do everything I can to get the best results. Did you actually stay quiet for 2 months? If not then I really don't know what to tell you, as you didn't follow the instructions given to you. Have you tried contacting Dr. Kim again to see what other options you have? Maybe there is something else he would recommend to help the recovery so you can see better results, or even a redo of the surgery...? Really, to me I think your recordings before were good, so we're kind of coming at this from two different angles.

I think we're in very different places in our relative transitions, I went fulltime after getting back from Korea and honestly my voice was not great before or once I was able to talk. Some responses I'd had from someone else that had the surgery implied that the surgery would make more of a difference than I found it did.
Regarding the blood clot... I'll make a thread about this soon perhaps but suffice it to say, that was harmless as far as I'm aware but that's why they said to wait. I've had two stroboscopies performed since then; Dr Kim verified that there was no issue with the healing after I showed them the videos. The speech therapist I see (Gary Wood), said that the vocal chords had healed well after the clot cleared. I most definitely did limit talking after seeing my speech therapist though and didn't start talking normally until 5 weeks after the surgery (the best I could arrange with work). My job involves telephone support so that wasn't really an option beyond then.
I'm sorry for bringing this into the thread.

Quotevoodle- While you haven't been pointing fingers at all and have been very straightforward and understanding with the reality of your situation, you did choose to disregard Dr. Kim's instructions as well. I think at this point you need to be honest with Jessie about it if you haven't already. Maybe there is something else she can recommend to help you out. After hearing your voice though, your result sounds just fine to me. If I were to hear your samples with no comment or description attached, I would think it is another shining example of Yeson VFS. I think you should be very happy with your result.

I am of the opinion that yes, the surgery did do a lot (I can compare with some old recordings) but I have had a rough time healing up and learning how to use my voice.

Anyways, yeah. I've been avoiding this forum for a few days but I was hoping to share my experiences with other people that have had the surgery, not many people have had it.

Hey voodle, I'm sorry that your recovery isn't going as smooth as you hoped it would. I would say just continue practicing your voice and hopefully it will fall into place as time goes on. If you went full-time right after surgery and didn't have much practice with your feminine voice before that (which sounds like that's the case...?) then I would say that you should definitely focus on working on that. I've had almost 7 years of using my feminine voice before having the surgery, so I think I have been able to get resonance and inflection down more than someone who is just starting out.

This surgery only deals with pitch, and even then you still have to train your brain to default to the higher pitch or it'll want to try to go back down to a more familiar range. Along with that you'll need to still learn all of the other things that go along with pitch to create a naturally-sounding feminine voice. It'll likely be easier to work on those things now that you don't have to strain as much to get the pitch though, but you'll have to put some work in to make the most out of this surgery.

I think you'll do fine after a bit of practice and focus though keep us updated on your progress!

I have another couple of recordings to share. I'm still not saying anything else really outside of these recordings. I'm trying to let the healing process go as smoothly as possible. I'll see how I feel about it next week once I'm 3 weeks post-op and closer to being able to resume general conversation, but I think maybe next week I'll start actually responding with yes/no answers and such.

Recording #1:

This recording is from yesterday night. With each recording I'm trying to focus on resonance and everything more and more so I can start integrating it into the higher pitch. It's still kind of hard to talk due to not having talked for over 2 weeks now, having to get used to the new vocal folds, and with the Botox still affecting my vocal folds. I think the sound of the voice is getting better each day, and my strength to be able to phonate is slowly coming back as well. I think next week things will really start progressing, and especially the week after that once I start talking again.

I think I was focusing a little bit to get a higher pitch on this one, although the effort was very, very small. The average frequency is 231Hz, with a low of 201Hz and a high of 283Hz.

https://soundcloud.com/theartoflogic/just-2-more-weeks-to-go/s-ey1Lo



Recording #2:

This recording is from this morning. I think compared to the previous recording of the same phrase it sounds a little better, but there's not much change overall.

The average frequency is 217Hz, with a low of 190Hz and a high of 305Hz. It's kind of crazy that the high is at 305Hz, which I didn't even feel like I was straining at all to do that.

https://soundcloud.com/theartoflogic/just-a-little-test-3/s-VKRBz