Hi Deb,

I think I need to revise mine from this:

gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
                                       ^   
                           where I thought I was
to this:

gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
                                                       ^
                                     where I think I may be now

I think I am learning more about myself through conversations with all of you.  I appreciate everyone's constructive thoughts.  Talk to you soon!

Lisabeth

QuoteEven more importantly, why does it matter?

QuoteWhy does it matter?  I don't think it does.  I think this was just for the hell of it.  I've almost finished my transition and I'm a woman.  I refuse to identify as TS after SRS.

Well ya know, it doesn't really matter at all, just a topic with a question, seems pretty harmless 

Steph

gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............man
                                                                                                       ^ --->
                                                                                                       me

Moving to the right, but still not settled in my social identity. (Have avoided tobacco chewing and turkey shoots, but do have a tendency to watch sports in my boxers with a beer.)

Dennis

Okay, I'll take up random spitting instead

Dennis

Quote from: Dennis on November 28, 2005, 03:09:51 PM
gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............man
                                                                                                       ^ --->
                                                                                                       me

Moving to the right, but still not settled in my social identity. (Have avoided tobacco chewing and turkey shoots, but do have a tendency to watch sports in my boxers with a beer.)

Dennis

If you're having sports in your boxers, you are far to the right!!!   


beth

gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............woman
                                             ^
                                            Me

QuoteOkay, I'll take up random spitting instead

Hey Dennis?  you know tobacco products, in any form isn't all that great for you so just learning to spit will get by wonderfully.  Very, Very, uh, masculine I guess.  I got into that while in Colorado many years ago.  It was fun, buy a can of Copenhagen and a bottle of pepermint snops and load that chew up.  Yeah it was nasty, especially when I swallowed it, perhaps it was the snops, but it tasted great, got me feeling good and I could spit like a professional, finally got tired of it though.  consuming a pint a day along with my chew got a little distracting ......

where at on a scale?  what scale?  I see it as man or woman ... and I don't chew tobacco or spit anymore, my panties get in a bunch when I'm pissed, so guess what?

Terri

Oh sure, why not! This is fun 

gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............woman
                                                                                                                                  ^
                                                                                                                              Jane

Why?

Having had 24 years as a spy in "male-dom" and now 32 years in "female-dom" I think I have been able to bring to women's awareness a lot of the subtle discriminations that a lot of GGs probably weren't aware of. I wouldn't say I am a feminist but most certainly a campeigner for equal opportunity. I've yet to meet a barrier I couldn't leave dents in! 

I have done just about everything a GG can do (except the obvious) and a lot more besides. I have never been afraid of taking the unconventional path, trying something that "isn't feminine" and - you know what? - when a woman does something that "isn't feminine" and does it with confidence in her womanhood, it BECOMES feminine  > There needs be nothing "unfeminine" about spending a day in coveralls and an evening in a ball gown


BTW: 24 years as a spy didn't do diddly for my understanding of the male of the species 

Quote from: Northern Jane on December 01, 2005, 07:08:27 AM

...and - you know what? - when a woman does something that "isn't feminine" and does it with confidence in her womanhood, it BECOMES feminine  > There needs be nothing "unfeminine" about spending a day in coveralls and an evening in a ball gown

No truer words have ever been spoken about crashing gender barriers.  I learnt this from a freind who identifies as genderqueer.  His/her ( she doesn't care) philosophy was to do something considered male and then tell herself, "I'm doing it, I'm a woman, it's no longer just a male thing."  In reverse, I then was able to accept the many "male" things I had done in my life as perfectly acceptable for the female I really was.  Part of my transition has been about crashing the gender barriers in my own head.

Dawn

I always felt like a woman,  been more comfortable around women, and been more comfortable talking to women.
I am a woman on the spectrum I would say.

gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............woman             i'd say Tv, but i want to be a woman, but seeing as how apparentley my "family" who don;'t even know what this is for mesay i'm better tyhe way i am, i'n never gonna get to be that far.

On the spectrum ts is more just figured it out pre-op is at least planning on doing something positive about it.

Cassie

gender play<................cd..tv...............>ts.....Pre-op ts.....>Post-op ts............woman

CD with an androgynous personality.  Absolutely no desire to transition.  If I had to answer this question twenty or thirty years ago I do not know if my anw\swer would have been the same.

QuoteIt sounds like pre-op is just more specific, but somebody can be pre-op if their planning on the surgery and have figured out they are TS.

Kinda, a pre-op person by todays definitions and expectations doesn't necessarily actually want to be a woman, or a man.  It simply means the person wants a vagina or appear and act as a man. and neither birth sex men or women actually need HRT if they can find a Dr. willing to do it with that in regard.  A TS also by todays standards doesn't necessarily want to be a woman or man, just wants people to think they are a woman or man at all times, just when they want them to thank that, so in that respect, both are not necessarily women/men or even want to be. 

Older standards define a Transsexual  as a TS, was a Preop and a full time woman/man and wanted to face the world as a woman or man at all times and forever.

Just an observation from an old time TS and pre-op from old school definitions of those terms.  But then, women are women and men are men.  Sorry about that.

Terri

I just had a thought that tickled me.

Please pardon my irreverence here but if the answer is transition then it must have been a pretty silly question in the first place I'm thinking.

Shelley

Well, as you have made no desire known to you  to transition yes, it would be silly to.  It only does any good for those who actually need it so you just keep thinking of it as a silly question, you will be happier in the long run if you don't feel the need.

Terri

Sorry,

Should have known better than to post that. I was thinking of the correlation between the statement that if war is the answer then it must have been a silly question.

I was actually drawing the correlation between the internal struggle of a TS and that of war. Again I apologise for my irreverence it was meant to be an ironic statement not to offend.

Quotepre-op person by todays definitions and expectations doesn't necessarily actually want to be a woman, or a man.

I have to disagree. Todays definitions can go to heck. If you have no desire to be the gender to which you identify then you are not TS. Lets not blur the lines. Some destinctions do need to be drawn otherwise what are you talking about? A CD is someone who presents as a woman and does not wish to become a woman, or man as the case may be. You either are or you are not. If you are pre-op then you are planning on going through with the transition to it's ultimate outcome. Desire has nothing to do with it. It is as I have said before we are salmon swimming upstearm to the spawning ground, we either make it or die trying. I can not accept someone as being a preop TS if they have no desire to go through with it. They are just CD. Not that there is anything wrong with that they are just not TS.

Cassie

Cassie, I have an agreement with what you say but I'm smart enough to realize that what I condisider the right thing to do in these respects isn't right for some others and as I understand them, they do have thier needs even if I understand them or not.  Please try to look at them in that respect and try to learn from those who can be honest with who and what they are.  It'll make you a happier person.

Terri

Quote from: Terri-Gene on December 17, 2005, 03:45:07 AM
...a pre-op person by todays definitions and expectations doesn't necessarily actually want to be a woman, or a man...a TS also by todays standards doesn't necessarily want to be a woman or man, just wants people to think they are a woman or man at all times...both are not necessarily women/men or even want to be.

I just gotta disagree.  It's the damned label thing again.  Within the trans community--without fully defining what that means--the labels become a bit meaningless since this is supposed to be about self-identification.  There is constant bickering and a lot of people who want to call themselves transsexuals as if this is a badge of some sort (we don't need no stinkin' badges) which is nuts.  Outside the trans community, most people don't have a clue of the difference between TS, TG, gender bending, or genderqueer.  A fair amount still think trans = weird or freakshow or drag queen.

Having said that, I subscribe to the Webster's definition of a transsexual:

1. a person having the strong desire to assume the physical characteristics and gender role of the opposite sex.

2. a person who has undergone hormone treatment and surgery to attain the physical characteristics of the opposite sex.

...and so your definitions above fail.  If that's what passes for a definition on the street, fine, but it is otherwise meaningless. 

IMO, if you don't fit these definitions, you ain't TS, you're TG or whatever you decide to call yourself.  Why does this matter?  We do need boundaries and definitions to qualify for and set guidelines for medical treatment.  If GID is a DSM disorder or a biological disorder, then we need to define it to get treatment for it: therapy, hormones, and surgery.  If you don't do this, if you let anyone call themselves a transsexual and let that in part define transsexuality, then you'll risk treatment being denied as not being medically necessary.  They'll look at all the kooks and non-ops who want to call themselves transsexuals and say, "See? They don't need surgery so neither do you."

So I don't think some guy who wears a dress every Saturday night has any right to call him/herself a transsexual woman.  A person *has* to have the burning desire to transition up to and including surgery otherwise they are TG. 

Quote from: Terri-Gene on December 17, 2005, 10:20:03 PM
Cassie, I have an agreement with what you say but I'm smart enough to realize that what I condisider the right thing to do in these respects isn't right for some others and as I understand them, they do have thier needs even if I understand them or not.  Please try to look at them in that respect and try to learn from those who can be honest with who and what they are.  It'll make you a happier person.  Terri

Are you serious?  I'm not dissing anyone or suggesting I'm superior and I don't think Cassie was either.  Sometimes the definitions need to exist even if they squash somebody's toes and hurt their feelings.  That is just way too politcially correct for me.

BTW,  I'm a happy person 


Dawn