Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

Being told to smile

Started by Torn1990, November 24, 2013, 12:39:49 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Shaina

Quote from: Torn1990 on November 24, 2013, 12:39:49 AM
I have noticed through my transition so far that I feel the pressure to be kind-faced, sweet, and gentle almost all the time...I find it perpetuates sexism at its finest. We as women need to be strong, educated, and assertive. Needing to be smiley-smiley all the time stresses me out, and I can't stand when i'm told to smile and it's a huge pet peeve of mine when others, esp. other women, tell women to smile.

I completely understand and I happen to have the opposite dillemma! I can't help but smile and find people may not take me seriously because of it. This is especially true in my male-dominated classes or at work. It's actually quite paradoxical-men tend to be more at ease in my presence, as I'm "smiley-smiley", but less at ease discussing anything serious.
I was a child and she was a child   
    In this kingdom by the sea:   
But we loved with a love that was more than love—
    I and my Annabel Lee
  •  

Gabrielle

Oh my!  With all the crappy stuff going on in the world these days, and we're discussing "smile oppression."

Smiling is known in every culture and throughout history as a sign of happiness and contentment.  People who smile more live longer.  So go on, let the world know how you feel.  It's your life.

Can we become any more petty?   :(
  •  

=celestica=

Aha... street harassment is petty. ok.
it's offensive to tell a woman you don't know to smile, period.

I'm done lol
  •  

=celestica=

okay I lied LOL

I just want to add one more thing: if you don't face the oppression, don't try to educate others that do face it that it doesn't exist. that's how people move backwards. (It's also condescending and rude as hell)
  •  

Joanna Dark

Quote from: Gabrielle on November 25, 2013, 01:09:17 AM
Oh my!  With all the crappy stuff going on in the world these days, and we're discussing "smile oppression."

Smiling is known in every culture and throughout history as a sign of happiness and contentment.  People who smile more live longer.  So go on, let the world know how you feel.  It's your li

Can we become any more petty?   :(

it's nit pettiness per say. I was not feeeling well once, got off the El, and some random guy I barely know but see a lot says 'girl why aint you smiling?l is annoying. Because I'm sick. That's why. I try to smile as much as I can but it's just a more relaxed version of cat calling. It does not happwn to men ever. Women don't go up to men and say smile. And another man never would. But clearly smiling is good. It's about context.
  •  

Gabrielle

LOL, y'all can feel oppressed if you want to.  Whatever floats your boats.  I try not to read evil intent into every comment directed my way.

Has it ever occurred to you that your "oppressor" maybe just wants you to be happy?  Or to share their joy?

Oh, and it does happen to men.  And boys.  And grumpy old men too.  And it happens to women from other women.  It is a sign of caring.  Don't let me stop the pity party though.    ::)
  •  

Ashey

Quote from: Joanna Dark on November 25, 2013, 02:13:33 AM
it's nit pettiness per say. I was not feeeling well once, got off the El, and some random guy I barely know but see a lot says 'girl why aint you smiling?l is annoying. Because I'm sick. That's why. I try to smile as much as I can but it's just a more relaxed version of cat calling. It does not happwn to men ever. Women don't go up to men and say smile. And another man never would. But clearly smiling is good. It's about context.

It is casually sexist depending on the person and yes, the context. They may not even realize they're doing it. Many men are blissfully ignorant of the pressures they put on women. It may seem like a small thing, but it's certainly a building block to sexism. And it's something that may not even be their fault as it's conditioned by society. The smiling faces of women are plastered everywhere in advertisements. And women are supposed to be 'happy with what men provide for them'. If a guy flirts, offers a compliment, 'emotional support', does something nice for a woman, he likely expects a coy or appreciative smile back. This stuff may seem ridiculous but even in 2013 we're not that far removed from the classic chauvinism depicted in previous centuries as well as the social conditioning in women. 


Smiling might seem like an insignificant thing at first, but if a guy is flirting or bothering you and you don't want the attention, don't smile back. Even if you're trying to be nice. With many men, if you give them any encouragement like that, they will persist and walk all over you. I'm not generalizing here, just speaking from experience. If you feel a certain way, let them know, because you can't leave it to most men to pick up on nuances or feelings. Some might, but you can't expect it.

I sound like an angry man-hater don't I? xD I'm really not.
  •  

Shaina

Quote from: Gabrielle on November 25, 2013, 02:25:27 AM
Oh, and it does happen to men.  And boys.  And grumpy old men too.  And it happens to women from other women.  It is a sign of caring.  Don't let me stop the pity party though.    ::)

I think we can all agree that the "smiling" comments happen to everyone, no matter their gender. However, I don't know that anyone's opinions should be called a pity party. While we may not all agree with each other, we can still offer good points like the one you made about commentators caring.   

As you said earlier, we're definitely not that petty!  :)
I was a child and she was a child   
    In this kingdom by the sea:   
But we loved with a love that was more than love—
    I and my Annabel Lee
  •  

Cindy

 :police:

I find it rather amazing that we can get worked up on a thread about smiling!

Calm down.

Cindy
  •  

brianna1016

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on November 24, 2013, 07:19:10 AM
Personally I'm all for smiling. When I smile, people are warmer towards me. I do not think that's just a trait exclusively given to women. When I was living as a male it applied to me as well.

If you want to look miserable go ahead, but people like to be around happy people more than grumpy people. I know I avoid anybody who looks mad at the world, whether they're male or female.
I totally agree with you. Smiling even when I'm not happy keeps me from being negative.
  •  

LordKAT

Quote from: Orange Creamsicle on November 25, 2013, 04:17:01 AM
I've experience the opposite version of this.  For years I was harassed for smiling "when I didn't have a good reason to."  I now live with an inability to express positive emotion and people think I'm lying when I say I'm excited or happy about something because I don't show it. 

Sorry if I'm derailing.

Same, inappropriate smiling, meant smiling at any time.
  •  

Alainaluvsu

Quote from: brianna1016 on November 25, 2013, 03:29:15 AM
I totally agree with you. Smiling even when I'm not happy keeps me from being negative.

Good point. I work in a call center and I smile while talking to people. It helps me to sound upbeat and friendly.

BTW a girl sings the song "Smile". The song is by Vitamin C. Look it up on YouTube. I doubt she's being misogynistic.
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



  •  

kira21 ♡♡♡

Quote from: Cindy on November 25, 2013, 02:54:41 AM
:police:

I find it rather amazing that we can get worked up on a thread about smiling!

Calm down.

Cindy


Lol :-) I smile, even when I am typing! :-) ...see!

In real life I smile allllll the time too, ^________^

Its the trappings you know. It's the trappings.

Joanna Dark

Quote from: Shaina on November 25, 2013, 02:41:00 AM
I think we can all agree that the "smiling" comments happen to everyone, no matter their gender.

No, I don't agree at all.

I really think people have missed the point. It's not about your friend, or your mom or your boyfriend telling you to smile; it's about a random man on the street who says smile when you pass. Big difference. This does not happen to men. Ever. Men don't come up to other men and tell them to smile. Unless they want to get punched in the face. Seriously.
  •  

Miss_Bungle1991

Quote from: Joanna Dark on November 25, 2013, 11:33:36 AM
No, I don't agree at all.

I really think people have missed the point. It's not about your friend, or your mom or your boyfriend telling you to smile; it's about a random man on the street who says smile when you pass. Big difference. This does not happen to men. Ever. Men don't come up to other men and tell them to smile. Unless they want to get punched in the face. Seriously.



That made me think of this. :D :D
  •  

Joanna Dark

LOL that's hilarious! Well, maybe women do it to men too. I don't know. I do know that if some guy said smile to any of my male friends that would cause an issue. A woman: that's another story.
  •  

Aina

The reason why I do not think it is a feminist issue, is it does not just apply to women only and I hardly believe it happens to just women either. Also it may not be limited to be just told to smile.
  •  

Aina

Quote from: Miss_Bungle1991 on November 25, 2013, 12:24:30 PM
Actually, I think it goes both ways as far men and women go in SOME cases. I remember when I was in Jr High and High School and I would have some guys that would tell me that I should smile. But they were always the quieter, less aggressive types so that may have played a role in that too. I was a pretty miserable person in those days. The only time I was smiling was when I was alone in my bedroom listening to my stereo or if I had just bought a new cassette at the record store or pawn shops on Fridays after saving up 90% of my lunch money throughout the week. :D

The rest of the time, I hated everyone else and especially myself.

I was a pretty hyper-active kid so I smiled allot regardless of my mood, honestly most of high school was me sleeping hehe. But I am sure I've been told to have a stiff upper lip ect, or smacked on my back and called bud, by random people who were trying to get me to smile.

I think its human nature, most people want others to be happy and humans portray being happy through smiling/laughing ect. I am not sure why type of person wants people not to be happy.

I just don't think it belongs under the feminist movement is all, I believe myself to be a feminist and I don't feel every issues brought up actually belongs with it and to do so actually hurts that true meaning. Not to mention it slightly feels like encouraging women not to smile paints that old stereotype of a feminist, that they are angery man hating women.
  •  

Miss_Bungle1991

#38
Quote from: Joanna Dark on November 25, 2013, 12:11:34 PM
LOL that's hilarious! Well, maybe women do it to men too. I don't know. I do know that if some guy said smile to any of my male friends that would cause an issue. A woman: that's another story.

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Curb Your Enthusiasm and Seinfeld. I even got into King Of Queens due to the involvement of Jerry Stiller. But I haven't been watching them as much since I have been on this cartoon kick with The Get Along Gang, Tenchi Universe and recently, TaleSpin.
  •  

Tori

Interesting topic.

I can not recall being told to smile, not as an adult, nor do I recall telling people to smile. So this, from my perspective seems to be much ado about nothing. Others clearly have had different experiences.

People don't tend to say, "Hey, wipe that smile off your face and give me your best scowl!"

People are very good at reading facial expressions and body language. In most cases, people can detect the differences between a true smile and a forced one. Same with frowns, or other emotions conveyed through the face. Only neutrality can be easily faked, because it is the utter lack of muscle tension.

Anyway, Torn, your thread has kinda' blown my mind. It is almost impossible to read your first post, without then glancing at your avatar pic. You are clearly not smiling. Thinking back, I can't remember you smiling in any avatar pic.

Bear with me here, it may take a while for my point to be made clear.

So yeah, Torn, the expression made in your avatar, it is not a smile, it is not neutral, it seems, for lack of a better term, angry. It is kind of odd what an avatar can convey. When I see you make a post, your avatar alone leaves me thinking, before I even read what you have written, that you are not going to like what you are replying to. That you are having a bad day. A part of me is intimidated and wants to stay away from you.

But then you made this thread and I thought, what if Bruce Willis was making the same sort of expression on a movie poster? He would be seen as powerful, motivated and ready to take action.

So, again, I can not remember telling a woman to smile, and yet, I guess I often enough, jump to conclusions when they don't.

Thank you Torn, for this most enlightening of threads. I now see your avatar in a new light. More power to you!


  •