I don't know if anyone remembers me here or not though I remember some of you and this place has helped me at times when I needed the help. (I've read a lot of posts/threads here) Please read on so you know my situation and can help me better. Thanks.

Well, I've been away trying to get my life together. I'm now able to better accept myself for who and what I am as well as my looks. (Not sure about my voice though. ) I now have a job (My first ever job fyi) and have had it for close to a month now. Had some drivers lessons which have stopped for now so still don't have a license/car and still rely on my Dad to take me to get groceries and other places too. (99% of the time it's just groceries though) At work I'm still in training but, it REALLY bothers me each time I'm called "Sir" -_- And to make matters worse I get called "Sir" multiple times each day I'm at work and by different people, I think mainly the managers. I've asked one of them to not call me sir but he didn't listen and still does and why is it when I ask people not to call me sir they have to be so persistent on it and take a while to stop if they even do? -_- It's not respectful anymore when the person doesn't want to be called by that title. -_- Anyway, I now know better on how my Dad would react if I told him the truth (I know he knows, he's just trying to block the truth out...) and so long as he meant what he said and doesn't do anything differently/else (Odds are he will) then I should be fine other than I HONESTLY BELIEVE he'd call me his son and other male titles, along with try to use God and the bible against me to try and change me into someone who I'm not. Also, even though I KNOW he knows (Een though I haven't told him) we were eating with the family at a restaurant one day when the nice waitress called me a ma'am or miss (I forget) I didn't say anything but was happy and then later she called me it again and my Dad put his hand on my shoulder and said this is my son. At that moment he ruined my happiness and that's when she started calling me a "sir" instead of the titles I prefer to be called. He knows, yet he did that awful thing, that's further reason why I believe he'd do the same thing and call me son, he etc. even if I told him. -_- I don't know how my step mother would react if I told her the truth but I do know unlike my Dad, she is accepting of my long hair. Sooner or later I have to come out and I really want to come out now. Plus if I lost this job I'd be in BIG trouble. I was cutting it close as it was when I got the job.

So, can anyone please help me out here? I want to come out. I'm tired of being this "false" me and just want to be the "real" me. I've had times where I almost told my Dad the truth, each day I get closer to slipping up and telling the truth. I've been through a TON In my life as it is, I hate feeling this way and being treated this way and just want peace! T^T But I'm also scared I'll be discriminated against, lose my job, by treated badly by what little "family" I have left and should I make friends in real life before I come out then be treated badly/lose those friends. I'm also scared of all the stuff I've heard on how people are attacked, killed, bullied, harassed, lose their job/denied by police/hospitals etc. and the one thing I do know is that at some point, people will know the truth when I finally can and do start to transition. So please, I need help! I don't know how much longer I can take this. I HATE being called sir. How can I get people to stop calling me sir without giving away I'm trans? Also it would GREATLY help me if you could share some of your coming out stories. Both the good and the bad parts. Also, is it true that we psych ourselves up, have stress, worry etc. etc. about people finding out the truth when there might not be anything to worry about? As you might have guessed I guess I can pass or at times pass as a female. My sister tells me my voice is gender neutral. :/ Lastly to anyone who helps me thank you very much. Oh and if you need to know more than ask and I'll try to answer your question'(s) as best as I can.

P.S. I am posting this in another place since I feel this thread will best help me if posted in those two different places and since I'm not sure which is the best to post in but I believe both are the best place. Plus I really need the help soon. Need someone to talk with in these forums about this and the sooner the better. I don't know how much longer I can stay in the closet and I don't want too.
EDIT: Received a PM from a mod so other thread was deleted Sorry didn't know it was against the TOS.

I thought posting in more than one place was against the TOS. I could be wrong.

I personally lived away from home and didn't bother 'coming out' to hardly anyone, including parents. It was done for me before I could really say anything and I didn't really care to anyway.

I do think letters initially are a good idea as it gives them a time to think on it before give an emotional and possibly regrettable response.

It's very hard when a parent cant except things like this . I'm transition a lot older so I don't worry about others. The best thing might be finding a therapist to bridge the gap between you and your father . I don't know if that's practical for you or not. I know your in unbearable pain because I've been there. I hope the best for you but there are helping hands out there.

Thank you both. I don't know if the therapist is possible but I am going to use the letter idea. Thanks again. P.S. Didn't realize that was against the TOS and edited the OP post to say that.

I had to be away for a while, but I remember you and I'm glad to see you again.  Glad, mixed with some sadness, too.  I regret that I may have missed some opportunities to be of service.

I like to call people sir.  It's part of my vocal habits, almost like Marcie in the Peanuts comics.  And I have found it hard to stop in the past when asked.  Hasn't happened often, but it has.  By the way I don't think this helps, but Marcie at least doesn't seem to mean anything gendering by it; Peppermint isn't the most femmy girl imaginable but she's definitely a girl.

Anyway I think it's a basic courtesy to do my best.  You're dead-on right that a term of respect ceases to be respectful if the recipient doesn't want it.



Yes, this too: it is entirely possible to psych oneself out of an honest conversation.  This is something I have been struggling with myself recently.  I think I frustrate my therapist!  (Not a gender therapist by specialty, and it's not something we've talked about much.)

I think what she would suggest, if I were in your situation would go something like this:

It's unlikely your father has forgotten you getting ma'am'd.   He'll certainly remember when you prompt him.  And I think you and him felt very differently about it.  (Big surprise.)  But what that means is you won't understand each other without talking, which will be very scary and should be because it does have the potential to hurt.

My therapist's advice would be to go for it.  But on the other hand, that's because she and I meet once a week and will be able to work through the bad stuff that gets stirred up.  Hah, I've got one of those myself - again, not gender related, but it hurt an awful lot to have one of my minor fears pretty much 100% confirmed and I'm still deciding what to do with that information.

If your support is strong enough, maybe this is how you bring it up.

"Hey, Dad.  I've been wanting to ask you a question about something that's been bothering me.  Remember the time at the place when... and you said to her 'this is my son.'  I've been trying to guess what you were feeling when you said that, and it's been driving me crazy.  Can you tell me, honestly?"

Then you listen.  And you ask questions.  And you do your best to affirm his feelings and accept what they are.

Then you can tell him how it made you feel, to get a ma'am for once in your tough life.  That you hurt when people call you sir, like physical symptoms and everything.

(By the way, I find this hard to imagine.  I... think I mentioned this before, but there is something very feminine about the way you write.  Either I'm crazy - possible - or it's true.)

I don't know what he'll do with that data.  I wouldn't ask him to change, I'd say I don't want him to fix my feelings for me.  You're just asking him to know.



I'm dealing with something perhaps similar.  My parents are in full-on ignorance and denial about my gender-baggage - and in a way that's okay because I have other things to work through.  But, bit by bit, if we stay close they're going to start to notice.  Like, I've decided to let them (and me) get used to me wearing butt and bust padding, subtle and with masculine clothing.  Thinner eyebrows, androgynous voice.  Eventually, it will come up.  But I'd be able to say things like "I don't get it.  I've been wearing falsies for the past x weeks.  Why is this a problem now?"

Is it a good idea?  I don't know.  But I have to give it a shot.

And my dear sister and best ally is coming home this evening for Thanksgiving.  I cannot put into words how much I'm looking forward to that.


Draw the line on being sir'd, though ask what you'll do if someone tries ma'am you as an insult.  Are you ready to come out and claim it, or would you choose not to.  Would that hurt?

Grow your support wherever you can.

Consider seeing a therapist for any other issues you have.  This may be a better way of getting in the door.   My biggest fear is you'll try for a gender-therapist and get someone who's actively hostile to trans* people.  That would be the worstest thing ever.

And, can you see yourself having that conversation with your Dad?


All in best hope,
music

   For your case, Shana-chan, are you sure your father is intentionally opposing you?  Without being blunt, it's unfair to expect him to notice what is buried inside your head and heart.  I know I learned to be an expert at hiding my gender identity issues growing up, discarding my facade and opening up surprised the people I've told.  Making assumptions about what people can tell is generally what leads to misunderstandings.  He might currently think he is protecting you from others judging you.  If you tell him clearly that what he is doing is hurting you, not helping and why, he may be receptive.  Presenting your issues to him in a way he can relate with would be better than simply stating how you feel, as many of the men I know are uncomfortable talking in emotional terms.  Is there any Father/Progeny activity that you do or used to, as a way to bond?  You could make time to do that with him and tell him during or after that.

  Not everyone is going to be supportive, but you will eventually have to choose to tell him if you want to be accepted by him.  I don't recommend agonizing over it, but making a plan to get him to listen to you, and try to earnestly convince him.  You could also work up to telling your dad by getting your sister in your corner as Musicofthenight has.  Having your sister there to support you might make it easier to face your father as well.  You'd have to give her forewarning, and possibly bribe her, but her presence might be reassuring.

--A few other things--
- When you come out, just do it as yourself dressed normally for people you are close with.  You want to get them to accept you changing gradually, as transitioning takes a great deal of time.  You want them to listen to, recognize and change how they view you.  Show that you're serious by listening and responding to him as well.
- If the person you are telling resists or argues with you, explain that you need them to understand what you are going through, not how they already think.  Your issues can't simply be ignored or suppressed regardless how appealing the counterargument. 
- Being LGBTQ isn't a conscious choice made.  Blaming people for it is pointless and annoying.  We all have imperfect parents and childhoods, pointing a finger at one thing as a 'cause' for a situation you didn't choose is similar to saying you can be 'fixed'.
-Keep in mind that no-one can be normal or perfect, they are both unreachable ideals only used for unfair comparison.
- Envisioning all the worst-case-scenarios will not help you make progress.  We aren't statistics, and there isn't a way to measure the uneventful.  Contingency planning is a good practice to arm yourself against the worst, but hoping for the best is also important.

--- My own experience
   I was terrified to talk to my mom and brother about being trans.  I started with my mom, by hedging to test the water, instead of being blunt.  She didn't get it and became concerned instead, which left me discouraged.  I initially figured that telling her "my life would have been easier in my opinion if I had been born female," would be something I could explain sufficiently, but she didn't get it due to her intractable opinion.  It's ironic as she feels similarly, that her life would have been easier if she had been born male although she has no desire to be one.  However, her bad experiences trumped any reasoning I could muster.

  This led to her sort of ambushing me at an appointment with my psychiatrist, who is a nice guy, but I couldn't face explaining it both of them at the same time.  Good intentions, bad result.  To my mom, she couldn't relate to my issues without separating her opinion that "it's a man's world ... who wouldn't want to be a guy ..." bleh.  She figured I just needed guidance.  I postponed coming out to her for another few months, and had a miserable semester at school. 

   When I did fully explain it to her,  I ended up relying on liquid courage    My mom and I sometimes drink wine together and talk about stuff thats important to us anyway, and because I was determined to not let my Xmas break go by before I had to go back to Grad School, I revisited the conversation to lead into a full explanation of my situation without room for misinterpretation.  I made sure to explain that it wasn't by choice, that I needed to make a change, because I couldn't handle any more time going by hating my body.  She wasn't happy about it, but she could tell how much pain I was in.  I think most parents hate seeing their kids cry, and I couldn't help it during the conversation.  Even though she worried about me making a life-changing mistake, I explained that I knew what I was signing up for, and needed to at least attempt being happy with who I am.  I love my mom, and she decided to support me, although she still worries a lot.

   As she was somewhat resistant, I didn't tell her everything I was busy planning out in my head, partially because I wasn't sure beyond the first steps of finding an endocrinologist, electrologist and starting HRT as well as facial hair removal.  I also wanted to let her process the first steps, and explaining everything that'll need to be taken care of for quality of life was too much information at once.  I decided to simply inform her, and compromise to an approach where I would see how beneficial HRT was after evaluating it for enough time before permanent changes occurred to ease her reservations.  Just making any progress helped my state of mind, and made telling my brother easier knowing I had one person who would support me already.

  I don't have the best relationship with my dad and stepmom, and my hesitation coming out to them is exacerbated by my broken-home-abandonment issues when it comes to my dad.  I've been spending more time with them when I can fly back home from school, so that when I do tell them I will have a stronger relationship with them to rely on.  I've fantasized about a drive-by version of coming out to them, damn the consequences, but since I want them to accept me I'm going to tell them at the same time and deal with the discomfort of explaining everything while trying to not cringe at their reactions.
---

@Katie: Thanks, I already sent him and his wife an email doing my best and I'm considering sending another since I forgot certain things to say and such. My sis I've already given her a heads up but rather than be supportive she is more worried with his reaction then saying "You can do it!" :/

-Keep in mind that no-one can be normal or perfect, they are both unreachable ideals only used for unfair comparison.

I can't agree more with you there and thanks for the advice. I've already decided to be myself from not on (Except at work, need a plan there) so they and everyone (Except work hopefully) will see me in female clothing and stuff. The good news is I believe I can pass. (I hope I'm not wrong -_-) and yup, great advice there on not imagining all the bad stuff, that's what's held me back for so long and I just got to trust God it'll all work out.

As for what you said about your own experience, I REALLY want to reply to it now but have to get ready to be somewhere right now and want to give you a response that's not typed up quickly so I'll have to come back later and either make a new post or edit this post.

Quote from: musicofthenight on November 25, 2013, 06:47:01 PM
I had to be away for a while, but I remember you and I'm glad to see you again.  Glad, mixed with some sadness, too.  I regret that I may have missed some opportunities to be of service.

As did I, to get my life to move forward. So I don't think you've missed too much with me and glad to see you remember me as do I you and am also glad to see you again.

I'll have to respond to the rest of your post later as I have to be somewhere and need time to type up a response which I don't have.

Quote from: Obfuskatie on November 26, 2013, 12:33:49 PM

Yeah, I "might" have been mistaken. I'll need to ask him if he really did suspect it or not later (He's already dealing with a lot atm after I came out to him) however, when I mentioned how he did that to me and I told him I believed he at least suspected I was trans, he didn't say a word to what I said there. Might indicate he did suspect and did it anyway or he might have just been dodging the question.
Yeah thanks for the advice. Things turned out well.

I strongly disagree with that old saying "It's a man's world" since yeah, that "used" to be the case but not anymore and thank God for that!

It's strange. I used to hate my body too and how it looked, just seeing hair on my body (Even the legs even though woman get hair there too) made me dislike my body. Beard/mustache ugh. -_- somewhat male appearance, ugh. -_- And anything else that pointed to a male...*looks down* V.V Well After a while of having gone through many emotions, both good and bad and struggling and searching as well as questioning myself again and even bringing God into the mix that time, I came to be able to accept, love and embrace myself for who and what I am. Now, looking at any of those male parts etc. doesn't make me hate myself or my body or anything but instead I look at all that and can still see the real me through all of it. About the only exception is when I worry if I'll pass or not in public since soon I'll be doing that for the first time ever. *Gulp* Anyway my point is, that's your body and always will be, even after having done anything done you wanted to get done such as hair removal/SRS HRT etc. it'll stil be YOUR body and so, don't hate your body but love and embrace your body and who and what you truly are and if you can do what I did, you'll not only be able to do that but usually be able to be happy with yourself too. At least when your by yourself, out in the world, people calling you Sir or miss when you don't want to be etc. MIGHT get to you. :/

Hem? Aren't electrologist  able to remove your facial hair too? o_O

My best advice is if you think you can trust them not to share the latter/email then write one and send it to them. That way you won't have to deal with their reactions in real life. (Facial reactions) I did this, (24 hrs worth of typing emails to them -_- ) and it turned out bad at first but after more info, more stuff I said including stuff I pointed out from the bible, they came around. (My Dad was the hardest to convince and he still thinks I'm confused but is at least accepting of this and letting me be myself and so on) Still...24 hrs of my life gone. The ONLY worth while thing that came out of putting a day of my life into emails is the good results where as had I not, could have gotten bad results. Stilla shame I had to do that though. Oh if only everyone was just accepting and such. 

Still, glad your mom came around and understands and such and best of luck telling everyone else too!

Quote from: musicofthenight on November 25, 2013, 06:47:01 PM

Yeah, because of how much I hate being called Sir (It LITTERALLY hurts me on the inside ) , I find it very hard to call someone a sir but have less trouble calling a female a Ms. or Ma'am. Still I try not to callpeople by gender names as much as possible because what if they're like me? I'd be hurting them possibly. Still maybe I should start asking people what they wish to be called though, this looks odd on me and also even if I asked a trans person this, odds are they wouldn't tell me since they don't want people to know so, eh, what to do???

Thank you for the advice. While some of it I didn't use since I chose to go with a different method it is advice which might help me come out to other people who know me/are family. Thanks.

HEHE X) Thank you. I don't know if you mentioned it to me before or not Music but a friend of mine did tell me I write in a feminine way. So I don't think you're crazy and if two people are saying this then it must be true.

I take it you haven't told them yet? Well ironically I was wearing a bra for months around my Dad and step mom (Months passed but not like they saw me every day, still enough, especially for my Dad) and when I mentioned to them I'd been wearing a bra that whole time and did they notice? The response I got indicated that was a no, they didn't notice. Even though I'd had a conversation with my Dad about me wanting to wear them due to XXX reasons. (None relating to transgender though) And when he found out he originally said I couldn't wear my bra or any female stuff (Including nail polish which I'd been wearing around him) but after another email or two he changed his mind and said I could but for the bra, he doesn't want to know I'm wearing one. Haha, not like I plan on telling anyone whether I'm wearing one or not and the only reason I told them this time is because no one was saying a word to me or noticing I was wearing one and I wanted confirmation it really was they weren't noticing or just not saying anything and now I know.

I know the feeling. Hope you had a great time with her.