I never told anyone to smile and to tell the truth I never really cared if poeple were smiling or not. People can have bad days (or dental braces  ) and I understand that.

It is harder to see men smiling, but it is in their nature to be serious, boring and dettached of emotions, right? At least the classic stereotype of men is this kind of serious men.

Luckly there are different men today. On my personal case, my grandfather was a colonel and treated his son (my father) as if he was in army. My father, because of that, never learned to smile and to say "I love you". On the other hand, I was raised mainly by my mother and "I love you" is one of the phrases I say all the time to people I care about.

But coming back to the subject (sorry if sometimes I get lost)

Smiling should be for everyone, but as men have this imposed behavior of not being emotional, needing to be cold and serious and boring (am I being too repetitive?), they never smile. Women, on the other hand, are free to smile and free to be happy!

Quote from: Tori on November 25, 2013, 04:41:59 PM
So yeah, Torn, the expression made in your avatar, it is not a smile, it is not neutral, it seems, for lack of a better term, angry. It is kind of odd what an avatar can convey. When I see you make a post, your avatar alone leaves me thinking, before I even read what you have written, that you are not going to like what you are replying to. That you are having a bad day. A part of me is intimidated and wants to stay away from you.

But then you made this thread and I thought, what if Bruce Willis was making the same sort of expression on a movie poster? He would be seen as powerful, motivated and ready to take action.

A very good point about popular perceptions Tori! I think a lot of people can relate and the movie poster example really made it clear for me! 

SCOWL Shaina!!!!

Quote from: Tori on November 25, 2013, 04:41:59 PM

So yeah, Torn, the expression made in your avatar, it is not a smile, it is not neutral, it seems, for lack of a better term, angry. It is kind of odd what an avatar can convey. When I see you make a post, your avatar alone leaves me thinking, before I even read what you have written, that you are not going to like what you are replying to. That you are having a bad day. A part of me is intimidated and wants to stay away from you.

But then you made this thread and I thought, what if Bruce Willis was making the same sort of expression on a movie poster? He would be seen as powerful, motivated and ready to take action.

So, again, I can not remember telling a woman to smile, and yet, I guess I often enough, jump to conclusions when they don't.

Valid points there with the difference between how men and women are perceived based on whether they are smiling or not. As a FAAB this is something that I noticed as part of my "training" to be an attractive female. When being told to smile from a perspective of it makes you look more feminine/female then I think it is offensive. Personally, I hate when people tell me to smile regardless because I don't always feel the emotional energy to do so. I also think that smiling at people as they walk past me is a good thing to do because I don't know what their life is like, but a smile can mean a lot to someone.

Quote from: Trenton on November 25, 2013, 10:00:05 PM
i also think that smiling at people as they walk past me is a good thing to do because I don't know what their life is like, but a smile can mean a lot to someone.

I do this. If I look at someone to long I just think it is polite so they don't think I am thinking anything bad. Plus I like when people smile at me. Smiling is great and makes the world a better place. And I heard this issue before preHRT and thought what is the bug deal but now it happens to me. And guys that I don't know have put their hands all over me since I transitioned and yes it is validating (like wow they think I'm pretty n sexy) but it's also scary and objectifying. I don't think a lot of people get it until it happens to you. But that's the last I'll say.

This.

Quote from: Tori on November 25, 2013, 08:44:08 PM
SCOWL Shaina!!!!

My bad!!! 

I was in the Post Office yesterday. I had a letter to send by Guaranteed Delivery so I had to speak to one of the staff behind the desk. I was, I hope, perfectly polite to her, said please and thank you, and probably did at one point or another give her a brief, friendly smile, just to let her know I wasn't going to be a pain in the ass to deal with.

I still present male, so that's perfectly normal, acceptable, non-threatening behaviour.

At the counter next to me a woman was handing in a parcel. As it was measured and the staffer (also female) was working out how much it would cost to post, the customer told some little story about a man who'd seen her carrying the parcel ... and ... well, to be honest, I have no idea how the story went. But the point is, it ended with both women having a little giggle, and thereby bonding through laughter and, yes, smiling at one another.

This is not a sexist thing. It's not social conditioning. It's just one of the ways women socialise and affiliate. Likewise, when a women is having her photograph taken, or takes a selfie she'll almost certainly be smiling - and if she isn't then not-smiling is a deliberate, conscious act, done to make a point.

Women smile more than men, just like - on average, and there's a ton of research on this - they talk more than men, using a greater vocabulary and with a more expressive vocal range.

And this brings me to the point that Alaina made about a non-smiling Facebook face 'flagging up' a transsexual ... I make a point of never making a negative comment about any picture any girl posts on here, especially on the threads like "You look fabulous", or "Before and after". I mean, really, the last thing anyone transitioning needs is another transsexual being bitchy at them. BUT ... there are so, so many times, when I look at another moody self-portrait, or see someone screing up her face into some kind of moody/angry/wacko expression when I just long to say, 'For heaven's sake, woman - SMILE!'

So many people would look so much more feminine and pass so much better if they just did what 99% of cis-women do, which is smile, learn your best angle, and then, if you see a camera, combine the smile and the angle to get the best result. Maybe that's sexist. Maybe that's oppressive. Maybe it's a terrible sin that most women want to look as pretty as they can and be as popular as possible. But that's just how the world is. So if you want to be accepted as a woman, why not accept the reality of female life and ... smile.

PS: It has also been scientifically established that a smile is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more you smile, the more genuinely happy you feel. Honestly, what's not to like?! 

Quote from: Carlita on November 28, 2013, 05:52:38 AM
It has also been scientifically established that a smile is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more you smile, the more genuinely happy you feel. Honestly, what's not to like?! 

That is a fact, HOWEVER! Back when I was 16 and was androgynous enough to live for about a year full time as female, I'd have random strangers tell me to smile, and it would piss me off because the context makes it really patronizing and sexist, let me try to explain why I felt that way:

The random guys who would tell me to smile would be the same exact guys that on another day would, at me or another girl, whistle like one or two streets away loudly and say stuff like "Hey lady, give me your number, don't play the bitch's part!" or "Hey hottie what's up" then follow you and try to chat you for a few streets. The exact same guys, the very same patronizing tone!! I could not care less about the words at that point, wether they ask you to smile or for your number or for the hour! Tone, body language and context say way more! It has like nearly always been so! With a few nice exceptions, but they were clear minority exceptions!!

EDIT: Remembering these different situations, I get really outraged at these smile comments, a lot of times they would be followed straight away by other stuff like what's a lovely girl like you doing out here alone? Or Why don't you wear cuter stuff, cute girls should wear cute clothing? (meaning like, mini skirt instead of a pair of regular girly jeans, you know, it is what a cute girl SHOULD DO pretty much the way she SHOULD SMILE and show a pretty face to these random douches for their own enjoyment obviously, whatever about my opinion and feelings, these are the kind of people who would use force rather than words if they found you in a lonely street at night...). Really, I'd love to have some normal person tell you to smile when you are kind of angry and feeling down, kind of trying to lift your mood or help, but in my experience, where I used to live, 95% of the times it's just potential molesters, rapists, pervs, what have you, telling you to smile. Eww!!

Quote from: Shaina on November 28, 2013, 03:10:54 AM
My bad!!! 

Quote from: ganjina on November 28, 2013, 07:07:13 AM
That is a fact, HOWEVER! Back when I was 16 and was androgynous enough to live for about a year full time as female, I'd have random strangers tell me to smile, and it would piss me off because the context makes it really patronizing and sexist, let me try to explain why I felt that way:

The random guys who would tell me to smile would be the same exact guys that on another day would, at me or another girl, whistle like one or two streets away loudly and say stuff like "Hey lady, give me your number, don't play the bitch's part!" or "Hey hottie what's up" then follow you and try to chat you for a few streets. The exact same guys, the very same patronizing tone!! I could not care less about the words at that point, wether they ask you to smile or for your number or for the hour! Tone, body language and context say way more! It has like nearly always been so! With a few nice exceptions, but they were clear minority exceptions!!

EDIT: Remembering these different situations, I get really outraged at these smile comments, a lot of times they would be followed straight away by other stuff like what's a lovely girl like you doing out here alone? Or Why don't you wear cuter stuff, cute girls should wear cute clothing? (meaning like, mini skirt instead of a pair of regular girly jeans, you know, it is what a cute girl SHOULD DO pretty much the way she SHOULD SMILE and show a pretty face to these random douches for their own enjoyment obviously, whatever about my opinion and feelings, these are the kind of people who would use force rather than words if they found you in a lonely street at night...). Really, I'd love to have some normal person tell you to smile when you are kind of angry and feeling down, kind of trying to lift your mood or help, but in my experience, where I used to live, 95% of the times it's just potential molesters, rapists, pervs, what have you, telling you to smile. Eww!!

Yeah, it's gross to have to cope with pervs and lechers, so I do sympathise and I absolutely understand tha when they tell you to smile it's not nice, or acceptable at all ...

BUT ...

You should know that a huge proportion of women on this site would KILL to be so cute and so passable that guys began talking to them with the words, 'What's a pretty girl like you ...' no matter what s*** came next!! 

Hehe that's a very positive outlook on it, thanks. I'll try to keep it in mind. Hopefully I'll be able to be passable again after a few years of not doing anything about it...

Despite my rather dour red profile pic, I made a habit of smiling because (apart from actually being quite happy most of the time) I find it rounds out/softens the angles of your face a little, adding another minor female gender marker/cue that is put out there to be received. What a selfish reason to smile, huh?!

Quote from: GendrKweer on November 29, 2013, 06:24:12 AM
What a selfish reason to smile, huh?!

Careful, please. It may be contagious.