Quote from: Gina Taylor on December 07, 2013, 08:00:18 AM
Just had it out with my mom again. For some reason, she seems to be really set on this dressing as a woman thing. I mean if I didn't dress as a woman but acted feminine, then I would be thought of as being gay. So to stop the confusion, I go the whole nine yards and that's it. Maybe I'll have to explain that to her the next time she gets into it with me. But she thinks that the only reason I go to a Saturday night service is so that I can go as a woman, she doesn't seem to understand that by me dressing as a woman is the only way that I can be a woman.

Then she tells me that because she's involved with the choir, bible studies and a few other ministries, that that makes her more valuable than me. So basically what she's saying is that if I were to not go to church for a month people may ask about me, but I wouldn't be missed as much.

Then she tells me that she's been talking with my other sister and she told her about my coming out letter and there is no way she'd expose her two boys to me, and they all feel it's selfish of me to be doing this. Is it really that selfish because I need to correct something to make my life better?

Ah yes, the selfishness argument. I guess if you were saving money for cancer treatment that would be selfish too.    No, Gina: you aren't being selfish. You're becoming and living your true self, and that's a beautiful thing.

Can you trust your mother's word about your sister though? Or, would it be better to contact your sister directly?

Quote from: JordanBlue on December 07, 2013, 11:12:24 AM
Gina:
Obviously I don't know what type of church you're referring to here, and no offense intended, but it sounds like organized religion at it's worst.  Trust me, I spent 10 years working for a very well known TV evangelist, I know what I'm talking about.  I have zero problems with God or his Son, but have completely washed my hands of organized religion.  Do yourself a huge favor and cut the judgmental people out of your life.  I can tell you this with 100% conviction...GOD has NO PROBLEM with transgendered folks.  How do I know that?  HE told me.   

I've been attending the United Methodist church for the past 18 years, and I don't think they're an organized religion. But with the way my mom's talkin and trying to be better than me, I don't need that kind of conflict in my life, so if I need a church to go to, I can always find another. But it's strange though, because all that she's trying to avoid is our paths from crossing and so I decided that I would go to a Saturday night service, which I know that she never goes to. I'm just trying to keep the peace, but she isn't trying at all. I really don't know why she fears seeing me dressed as a woman though???

FYI, United Methodist is organized religion. Organized religion is just about any recognized 'church', it is recognized as a religion.

Quote from: Gina Taylor on December 07, 2013, 04:57:31 PM
I'm just trying to keep the peace, but she isn't trying at all. I really don't know why she fears seeing me dressed as a woman though???[/color]

Gina:
Your Mom simply doesn't get it. She may never get it.  Lots of people never get it.
And yes, Methodist is a well established denomination aka organized religion.
You're dealing with the man-made rules of a denomination. These rules are NOT from GOD.  Such as your pastor worrying about which restroom you use.  This type of behavior has zero to do with JESUS or GOD.  Can you see what I'm saying?

Quote from: Gina Taylor on December 07, 2013, 04:57:31 PM
I've been attending the United Methodist church for the past 18 years, and I don't think they're an organized religion. But with the way my mom's talkin and trying to be better than me, I don't need that kind of conflict in my life, so if I need a church to go to, I can always find another. But it's strange though, because all that she's trying to avoid is our paths from crossing and so I decided that I would go to a Saturday night service, which I know that she never goes to. I'm just trying to keep the peace, but she isn't trying at all. I really don't know why she fears seeing me dressed as a woman though???

IMHO if it's got a name it's organized, but really though, that's beside the point. Having religious convictions is your own choice and there are indeed Christian, spiritual, and other religious folks that are accepting of transgender people.

"Why she fears" could be a number of things, but per previous posts it seems to me to be that she equates your living as a woman to being harmful in many ways (mainly to others - has she ever showed concern about your well-being?). Like I said before, someone using their own convictions and fears as a reason to tell you how to live is a boundary-crossing, codependent relationship. The same goes for folks who say that you're being "selfish". Saying it's "selfish" to make your own decisions in life implies that aspects of your life and convictions answer to them naturally and your breaking away from that is some kind of inflation of self-interest: All of which is manipulative rubbish. Not to be pushy but getting separate from controlling folks like that would really be worth considering.

Quote from: Constance on December 07, 2013, 12:51:28 PM
Ah yes, the selfishness argument. I guess if you were saving money for cancer treatment that would be selfish too.    No, Gina: you aren't being selfish. You're becoming and living your true self, and that's a beautiful thing.

Can you trust your mother's word about your sister though? Or, would it be better to contact your sister directly?

I see exactly what you mean Constance. Not for once did I think I was being selfish with my actions.

Unfortunately my mom has a photographic memory and she can relate exactly what has been told to her, so what my sister told her is exactly what she said. I may bring this up at my next sesion with my therapist 

Quote from: LordKAT on December 07, 2013, 05:09:13 PM
FYI, United Methodist is organized religion. Organized religion is just about any recognized 'church', it is recognized as a religion.

I wasn't aware of that, but after doing some quick research, I see what you mean. It's totally unavoidable.

Quote from: JordanBlue on December 07, 2013, 05:11:10 PM
Gina:
Your Mom simply doesn't get it. She may never get it.  Lots of people never get it.
And yes, Methodist is a well established denomination aka organized religion.
You're dealing with the man-made rules of a denomination. These rules are NOT from GOD.  Such as your pastor worrying about which restroom you use.  This type of behavior has zero to do with JESUS or GOD.  Can you see what I'm saying?

Yeah, I can. It was man that says males are to use the men's room and females are to use the ladie's room, really no exception.  God says otherwise. When I was told of my mistake last week, I understood. There was really no need for my pastor to intercede. The church is just a place to gather people to speak the word of God. I can do the same by staying at home and reading my bible.

Quote from: Andrea_LS on December 07, 2013, 05:15:29 PM
IMHO if it's got a name it's organized, but really though, that's beside the point. Having religious convictions is your own choice and there are indeed Christian, spiritual, and other religious folks that are accepting of transgender people.

"Why she fears" could be a number of things, but per previous posts it seems to me to be that she equates your living as a woman to being harmful in many ways (mainly to others - has she ever showed concern about your well-being?). Like I said before, someone using their own convictions and fears as a reason to tell you how to live is a boundary-crossing, codependent relationship. The same goes for folks who say that you're being "selfish". Saying it's "selfish" to make your own decisions in life implies that aspects of your life and convictions answer to them naturally and your breaking away from that is some kind of inflation of self-interest: All of which is manipulative rubbish. Not to be pushy but getting separate from controlling folks like that would really be worth considering.

My mom constantly watches the news. As soon as she gets up in the morning, she turns on the TV and the news is playing. When she gets home from work, she turns on the news. She hears about all the tragedies in the world and that's what she bases her life on. And of course she tries to use what she sees in the news to strike fear into me of what might be out there. I'm always observant and I can always see what's out there, so I don't need her striking more fear into me. I know what's going on in the world these days, and I'm a pretty protective woman. 

Quote from: Gina Taylor on December 07, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
My mom constantly watches the news. As soon as hse gets up in the morning, she turns on the TV and the news is playing. When she gets home from work, she turns on the news. She hears about all the tragedies in the world and that's what she bases her life on. And of course she tries to use what she sees in the news to strike fear into me of what might be out there. I'm always observant and I can always see what's out there, so I don't need her striking more fear into me. I know what's going on in the world these days, and I'm a pretty protective woman. 

I've lived with people that watched lots of 'news' (I give it that term out of generosity...). If it's any news with commercials (most are), it's got a basic need to ensure it grabs people's attention. Naturally people get curious and emotionally involved with bad news, so it's all over the place. I'll tell you, though, I only peek at general news occasionally (political news even less) as a practical thing. No matter its content or basis on fact, if I sit down and watch news for about 2 hours, without fail, my mood is sour and my outlook on how positive or accepting or hopeful humanity can be is largely skewed.

A roommate I once had was in a perma-sour from following the news all day, and it showed; she had an almost permanent combative personality from being in "survival mode". To folks outside her viewpoint, though, she seemed overly defensive and unapproachable. Not to say your mother is like that or anything, but the point is that bland news is only engaging to some, while sensational/fear-mongering/always-showing-exceptional-circumstances news grabs more viewers (something I like to call "infotainment"). I was a recent victim of it by looking up TERF stories, and felt scared, until I realized that they're not all over the map and it's a fringe movement. My mom fell into it once when she called me, scared, bringing up a trans murder in Jamaica (seriously, California and Jamaica are not exactly nearby each other).

Kind of like what I'd said before, the more you live out your life as a woman, unscathed (for the most part anyway), the more that kind of fear seems unwarranted to others like her. That's what I meant about being an example. Before I came out to myself, I made trans friends and subconsciously studied their lives and interactions to find out how a trans person survives, and lots of concepts I had changed dramatically. I think it's key though to challenge not her necessarily but her fear. Defining how you're different people with different emotions and experiences can bring some objectivity to the matter, I think.

Quote from: Andrea_LS on December 08, 2013, 01:15:09 AM
I've lived with people that watched lots of 'news' (I give it that term out of generosity...). If it's any news with commercials (most are), it's got a basic need to ensure it grabs people's attention. Naturally people get curious and emotionally involved with bad news, so it's all over the place. I'll tell you, though, I only peek at general news occasionally (political news even less) as a practical thing. No matter its content or basis on fact, if I sit down and watch news for about 2 hours, without fail, my mood is sour and my outlook on how positive or accepting or hopeful humanity can be is largely skewed.

A roommate I once had was in a perma-sour from following the news all day, and it showed; she had an almost permanent combative personality from being in "survival mode". To folks outside her viewpoint, though, she seemed overly defensive and unapproachable. Not to say your mother is like that or anything, but the point is that bland news is only engaging to some, while sensational/fear-mongering/always-showing-exceptional-circumstances news grabs more viewers (something I like to call "infotainment"). I was a recent victim of it by looking up TERF stories, and felt scared, until I realized that they're not all over the map and it's a fringe movement. My mom fell into it once when she called me, scared, bringing up a trans murder in Jamaica (seriously, California and Jamaica are not exactly nearby each other).

Kind of like what I'd said before, the more you live out your life as a woman, unscathed (for the most part anyway), the more that kind of fear seems unwarranted to others like her. That's what I meant about being an example. Before I came out to myself, I made trans friends and subconsciously studied their lives and interactions to find out how a trans person survives, and lots of concepts I had changed dramatically. I think it's key though to challenge not her necessarily but her fear. Defining how you're different people with different emotions and experiences can bring some objectivity to the matter, I think.

Yeah, I see what you mean Andrea. She's never really  happy woman, because of what she sees on the news. Because of what's happen between the wars or politics it menatlly affects her, and her disposition is never really happy because of that.

But I do plan on carrying on with my plans on living as a woman and being an example. And by living my life the way I want I will only grow stronger and will be more independent.  Thanks for the vote of confidence and the support. 

Gina I just wanted to chime in with the people who sympathize with you, especially on the "selfish" accusation and church-related guilt tripping. I've had family compare my trans identity to child molesters and ask if I thought about how this would affect my child and the other people around me. As if this is just some careless whim.

My blood family are quite religious, and I'm certainly kept a secret and not welcome to visit in person. Years into my transition, read as male 100 percent of the time and finally content with myself, they still refer to me as a confused woman. It hurts, but it's less harmful to me than it would be if I were more dependent upon or in closer contact with them.

You should do what it takes to be allowed to be yourself.

Quote from: Felix on December 08, 2013, 05:35:54 AM
Gina I just wanted to chime in with the people who sympathize with you, especially on the "selfish" accusation and church-related guilt tripping. I've had family compare my trans identity to child molesters and ask if I thought about how this would affect my child and the other people around me. As if this is just some careless whim.

My blood family are quite religious, and I'm certainly kept a secret and not welcome to visit in person. Years into my transition, read as male 100 percent of the time and finally content with myself, they still refer to me as a confused woman. It hurts, but it's less harmful to me than it would be if I were more dependent upon or in closer contact with them.

You should do what it takes to be allowed to be yourself.

Thanks Felix for your kind and heartfelt words.Some people feel that they can use religion to back them up, but it doesn't always work. I'm seeing my therapist on Tuesday and my mom will be coming because of some things that he has said about her that has perturbed her, and there will be some things said by me that I'm sure that she won't like, but at least my therapist will be there to defend me. But as said, I'm in the process of getting my things together and making sure that I'll have the necessary funds made available to me per month and I'll be on my way by the 1st of the New Year. 

Y'know it's strange. I was at Wal-Mart last Thursday and I was talking with a woman who works in the jewlery department about some earrings that I bought. Now I don't know how she figured that they were for me or how she figured that I was transgendered, but she told me that she would be interested in seeing me dressed. So I found out that she was working Saturday, and I strolled through the store at around 1:30.  I was wearing an orange Faded Glory shirt, a pair of capri's and my new black shoes. At first she didn't recognize me, and then when she did, she told me that I looked good and she really liked the curls in my wig. Now I had to walk from one end of the store to the other and I didn't get any bad looks from any one. Now I could have just as easily walked right by my mom, and I wonder what she would have done? 

Quote from: Gina Taylor on December 08, 2013, 12:14:17 PM
Y'know it's strange. I was at Wal-Mart last Thursday and I was talking with a woman who works in the jewlery department about some earrings that I bought. Now I don't know how she figured that they were for me or how she figured that I was transgendered, but she told me that she would be interested in seeing me dressed. So I found out that she was working Saturday, and I strolled through the store at around 1:30.  I was wearing an orange Faded Glory shirt, a pair of kakis and my new black shoes. At first she didn't recognize me, and then when she did, she told me that I looked good and she really liked the curls in my wig. Now I had to walk from one end of the store to the other and I didn't get any bad looks from any one. Now I could have just as easily walked right by my mom, and I wonder what she would have done? 

Gina:
There you go!   Proof that you are passing!  And the real truth is...most people are too wrapped up in their own little world to even care about what someone else looks like.  And your pastor?  Sorry but he'll have to answer to a higher power than himself someday for the way he's treated people. I really don't know what to say about your Mom.  Honestly if I were you, there's no way I'd take her to the therapist appointment.  It's simply not worth any possible outburst from her.
It's not your fault she doesn't get it.

Hi Gina. There's the saying that when one person transitions, so does the rest of the family. You have accepted who you are and are living your life. What's at play is that they have a belief system in which they are not willing to budge from. Many, many people have this issue. It's hard for some folks to change.

I'm happy that you are happy  with your life as a woman. You' ve made your position clear. I admire that you respect and love your folks. When you get your own place, things will get better.

Quote from: gennee on December 08, 2013, 05:37:56 PM
Hi Gina. There's the saying that when one person transitions, so does the rest of the family. You have accepted who you are and are living your life. What's at play is that they have a belief system in which they are not willing to budge from. Many, many people have this issue. It's hard for some folks to change.

I'm happy that you are happy  with your life as a woman. You' ve made your position clear. I admire that you respect and love your folks. When you get your own place, things will get better.

Y'know Genne, I kind of forgot about that. It's kind of like a marriage, where the family has to get use to the new member of the family. But unfortunately they're not willing on accepting that new member into their family. She's kind of like a blacksheep of the family.

Thanks for your kind and heartfelt words. That's right I'm not going back on my decision. I'm standing tall and firm like a woman should with my decision and I'm moving forward.  Sure I love and respect my folks, but I've now have to do what is best for me. Hopefully I should be able to find a nice to place to live.

I had e-mailed my mom my decision for what I want done financially and she tells my that one of the things that social security wants to make sure of is that my money is used to make sure that I'm not homeless. She's starting to contradict herself now, because the other day she was ready to give me all my money and show me to the door. Guess I'll have to wait till tomorrow to hear her ultimatum. Should be interesting . . .   

Gina, it sounds a bit, to me, like your mum is only concerned about herself and herself alone. Also with regards to religion, I'm slightly religious myself and as far as I'm aware the Bible is all about forgiveness and love, not rejection and hatred. Unfortuantely many 'Christians' seem to take inboard the latter.

Quote from: foreversarah on December 09, 2013, 11:50:49 AM
Gina, it sounds a bit, to me, like your mum is only concerned about herself and herself alone. Also with regards to religion, I'm slightly religious myself and as far as I'm aware the Bible is all about forgiveness and love, not rejection and hatred. Unfortuantely many 'Christians' seem to take inboard the latter.

So it seems like she's made that impression on you as well. Perhaps it's caused from her upbringing. She comes from a middle class family. Good point there about the bible, and it's something that I'm going to hit her with at my next therapy meeting.