Hi, well, um. I'm an Trans-Man first of all (Out of the closet). And, well, I don't dress in just mens clothing. I dress in female and mens clothing, really just whatever I feel comfortable in. Sometimes I get people telling me I'm not a Trans because I don't dress in just mens clothes. I'm just wondering, is that true? I don't try to pass often (I don't have a big interest in it for now to be honest), but I do tell people to call me a man, and use the male pronouns even if I'm not passing.

I looked around on other sites, but they didn't seem to answer my question, so I thought I'd post here (I'm sorry)

But, yeah, my question is, can I be a trans-man even if I don't dress in just man clothes? Or try to pass all the time? I am thinking about going on T eventually and if I do, I'll probably still wear female clothes so...

I'm really really really sorry if I offended anybody! I really don't want to offend anybody >.<

I did post this question on another forum, but I thought this might be a better place to ask. (And I'm sorry if this is the wrong Sub-Forum!)

Hi Swooshy and Welcome!

No offense here at all! That's a very understandable question!

This probably won't help much but I wouldn't concern yourself with labels, you dress in what you feel is comfortable and that's all that's important. All that matters is what you feel you are.

If I had to get a little more specific, I guess it depends on how man-ly you want yourself to appear.

But, I seen dudes in pink shirts all the time, soooo...

Sorry if this is kind of vague, but I hope it helps a little!

Other folks here, correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Being transgender means your gender identity (you) and your physical body (anatomy) don't quite match up. It has nothing to do with your appearance (gender expression). Your being transgender is simply your identifying as a man, not how you express it to others.

As far as how you are perceived and treated... Having your gender identity and gender expression match up is not necessarily something to do with what gender you look like, to be exact. Cisgender folks wear all kinds of styles. I'm a MTF transsexual and I wear androgynous clothing since that's my style, and passing as female isn't my utmost priority, either. I'm still feeling out my preferences for expression but gender expression can be all kinds of things is my point. Besides, what you wear doesn't dictate who you are.

For you to be referred to and called male is something you desire, but for a ciswoman, to do so to them is almost always taken as an insult. Perhaps folks misgendering you as female are simply not trying to be insulting, I mean. Passing, though, has nothing to do with being referred to and treated as the gender you identify with, so passing or not, it's a right of yours to be shown respect in that regard. If right now I dressed in, for example, a suit and tie, then go out, I'm not surprised to be misgendered as male, since that's how I appear, but that doesn't mean I'm not transgender. It's just a change to my gender expression (in this case, expressing what people tend to consider quite masculine).

My point here is that how you dress (your gender expression) will color how people see you, unfortunately, but it doesn't change who you are inside (your gender identity). Expect some confusion now and then, no matter what your gender expression is, but there's nothing wrong in informing folks of who you are and how you prefer to be addressed.

I hope this helps

FYI Site definitions for transgender refer to anyone who differs from the social norm. This includes gay, bi, androgyne or anything in between.

Transsexual refers to one whose inner gender ID doesn't match the body they were born with.

Speaking of androgyne,  I think you may find yourself more in that direction. Check out the boards relating to their unicorn forest to see if it may fit you better.

If your a trans guy then who cares about dress? Some trans girls get away without dresses so why can't you dress how you want?

Sigh... I love that 'your not really trans' thing.

Just ask to see their degree in psyciatry and gender therapist qualifications... or thank them for their diagnosis and ask if they will forward it to your specialist for consideration.

Welcome to Susan's, you are among friends;

Only you can define your gender and cloths do not make you one way or another. In the binary world there is not both or sometimes one

and then sometimes another and yet still a little of both. Cis people do not understand and get confused; they think M or F and get confused

when you present one way yet feel another and want to be identified as how you feel but not as you present.


Yes, you can be trans* and be stealth (meaning not disclose your present inner gender or past gender).


I have been seeing a gender therapist for the past 11 months. For me, learning, accepting, forgiving, exploring, finding, feeling and living

are adverbs defining my present path. They suggest action and work to find the balance I am seeking. Being Trans* can be exciting and

terrifying at the same time.

Quote from: LordKAT on December 08, 2013, 03:25:30 AM
FYI Site definitions for transgender refer to anyone who differs from the social norm. This includes gay, bi, androgyne or anything in between.

Transsexual refers to one whose inner gender ID doesn't match the body they were born with.

Speaking of androgyne,  I think you may find yourself more in that direction. Check out the boards relating to their unicorn forest to see if it may fit you better.

Not to split hairs or anything, but transgender has to do with gender identity, specifically a difference in gender identity versus assigned gender (male/female anatomy), with nothing to do with sexual orientation (which can transcend cultural gender expectations and stereotypes, though). Transsexual means transgender under (or has completed) medical treatment to align their body to their gender identity (HRT, surgery, etc). (Source: Wiktionary).

Another example, (Source: GLAAD.org):

Quote
Transgender An umbrella term (adj.) for people whose gender identity and/or gender expression differs from the sex they were assigned at birth. The term may include but is not limited to: transsexuals, cross-dressers and other gender-variant people. Transgender people may identify as female-to-male (FTM) or male-to-female (MTF). Use the descriptive term (transgender, transsexual, cross-dresser, FTM or MTF) preferred by the individual. Transgender people may or may not decide to alter their bodies hormonally and/or surgically.

Transsexual (also Transexual) An older term which originated in the medical and psychological communities. While some transsexual people still prefer to use the term to describe themselves, many transgender people prefer the term transgender to transsexual. Unlike transgender, transsexual is not an umbrella term, as many transgender people do not identify as transsexual. It is best to ask which term an indi­vidual prefers.

Quote from: SwooshySquish on December 08, 2013, 01:27:10 AM
Hi, well, um. I'm an Trans-Man first of all (Out of the closet). And, well, I don't dress in just mens clothing. I dress in female and mens clothing, really just whatever I feel comfortable in. Sometimes I get people telling me I'm not a Trans because I don't dress in just mens clothes. I'm just wondering, is that true? I don't try to pass often (I don't have a big interest in it for now to be honest), but I do tell people to call me a man, and use the male pronouns even if I'm not passing.

I looked around on other sites, but they didn't seem to answer my question, so I thought I'd post here (I'm sorry)

But, yeah, my question is, can I be a trans-man even if I don't dress in just man clothes? Or try to pass all the time? I am thinking about going on T eventually and if I do, I'll probably still wear female clothes so...

I'm really really really sorry if I offended anybody! I really don't want to offend anybody >.<

I did post this question on another forum, but I thought this might be a better place to ask. (And I'm sorry if this is the wrong Sub-Forum!)

S/S:

Gender is a spectrum, not a binary.  Society often assigns people to the binary so that may be the source of the comment.

Any which way you desire to express your gender is acceptable.  And that you don't buy into the gender binary you become part of the trans community.

And no, you have not offended anyone here.

-Sandy

Clothes do not equal gender. If a cis man wears feminine clothes, does he suddenly become female? No. If a cis woman wears masculine clothes, does she suddenly become male? No. It's the same with trans men and women. There are non-binary people, but their clothes don't define their gender(s) either.

Thank you everyone for clearing things up for me, I really appreciate it! You are all so great!

And Andrea_LS, it wasn't that they were misgendering me, but, it was more like, I'd tell them that I'm actually a trans-man and ask them to call me by the male pronouns etc. (I would explain if they didn't know what it meant) But then some would tell me I couldn't be because I didn't look like a man, or they would ask 'well why aren't you wearing guy clothes then?'. And so it just put that worry into my head I guess. Sorry it's such a silly question now that I think about it ^^;

LordKAT, I got the definitions from another site, so it told me transsexuals meant something else, my apologies, and I will check out that forum, thank you.

Again, thanks everyone!

Quote from: SwooshySquish on December 08, 2013, 06:55:49 PM
And Andrea_LS, it wasn't that they were misgendering me, but, it was more like, I'd tell them that I'm actually a trans-man and ask them to call me by the male pronouns etc. (I would explain if they didn't know what it meant) But then some would tell me I couldn't be because I didn't look like a man, or they would ask 'well why aren't you wearing guy clothes then?'. And so it just put that worry into my head I guess. Sorry it's such a silly question now that I think about it ^^;

I see, no need to feel sorry. Sorry about my misunderstanding you.

People can have a knack for pushing expectations onto others sometimes. In a similar situation, a cisman looking feminine and a ciswoman looking masculine probably get the same thing, like, "you're not trans so why don't you look your gender?" and other stupidity. I once came across something called the Gestalt prayer, with a few lines relevant to this topic:

Quote
I am not in this world to live up to your expectations,
And you are not in this world to live up to mine.
You are you, and I am I

It doesn't matter from a medical perspective. You will probably cause social confusion, but that's not such a big deal. Wear whatever you want.

I don't plan to stop wearing my rifle coat, even if it looks kind of male-ish.

This is taken form the Terms and definitions area of Susan's.


Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.


Transsexual: a person who is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other. They desire to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender, this is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.


It is possible to be intersex but quite OK with your assigned gender. Gender variant seems to have a lot of meanings, even under the GLAAD description.

I apologize if my uncopied definition strikes you as being so very wrong.

Quote from: SwooshySquish on December 08, 2013, 01:27:10 AM
Hi, well, um. I'm an Trans-Man first of all (Out of the closet). And, well, I don't dress in just mens clothing. I dress in female and mens clothing, really just whatever I feel comfortable in. Sometimes I get people telling me I'm not a Trans because I don't dress in just mens clothes. I'm just wondering, is that true? I don't try to pass often (I don't have a big interest in it for now to be honest), but I do tell people to call me a man, and use the male pronouns even if I'm not passing.

I looked around on other sites, but they didn't seem to answer my question, so I thought I'd post here (I'm sorry)

But, yeah, my question is, can I be a trans-man even if I don't dress in just man clothes? Or try to pass all the time? I am thinking about going on T eventually and if I do, I'll probably still wear female clothes so...

I'm really really really sorry if I offended anybody! I really don't want to offend anybody >.<

I did post this question on another forum, but I thought this might be a better place to ask. (And I'm sorry if this is the wrong Sub-Forum!)

First of all, welcome to Susans Place! 

How you dress has n-o-t-h-i-n-g to do with defining your gender identity.  Your gender presentation in terms of clothing may or may not help reinforce your identity, but it does not define it.  Fashion is purely cultural.

I was just writing a response earlier tonight about sarongs.  In North American and much of western Europe, the sarong would be seen as a item of women's apparel.  But not in much of east Asia.

Pants used to be something only a man wore.  See what I am getting at?

If you identify as a transman, then who is to argue with you?  And we have lots of folks in the transgender community who identify as neither fully male or fully female.  Like me!

Thanks for quoting that, LordKAT.

Quote from: LordKAT on December 08, 2013, 11:24:08 PM
I apologize if my uncopied definition strikes you as being so very wrong.

I sense some hostility there in that "so very" - No need to catch offense here, I'm simply talking objectively about the term. You'd stated bisexuality and homosexuality, for example, as falling under the transgender umbrella (by definition), which isn't accurate. There's transgender folks of various orientations, but a cisgender person who is bi/gay/etc. is cisgender, even by the Susan's quote you provided. My goal is to clarify what the word means, not to bicker with you personally or anything. Just trying to be helpful, that's all. I would be interested in finding, though, other sources that claim that definition of "transgender", but so far I've never seen an example the term be applied to sexual orientation in-and-of-itself. Transgender is a matter of gender identity, not attraction/orientation, according to all sources I've seen thus far.

Quote from: LordKAT on December 08, 2013, 11:24:08 PM
This is taken form the Terms and definitions area of Susan's.


Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.

Still, nowhere in there is there any mention of orientation.

Nor is it excluded. Just from being on this forum for a long time, it fits.

Ok, everyone's trans* then.