I've read the half life of estrogen is like 30 or 35 hours.  If this is true then wouldn't taking estrogen every day build up to a very high level?  I use Oestrogel gel daily but after a few weeks I start getting leg aches in my right leg and a feeling like I've been running.  Like a bit out of breath.  I take plavix which helps for a while but eventually the estrogen levels get too high and I have to lay off for a while.  I don't think I'm getting clots but think the estrogen make my blood more viscous.  Any thoughts?

Standard advice: See your doctor and have it checked. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Amy1988 on December 07, 2013, 12:51:55 PM
I've read the half life of estrogen is like 30 or 35 hours.  If this is true then wouldn't taking estrogen every day build up to a very high level?  I use Oestrogel gel daily but after a few weeks I start getting leg aches in my right leg and a feeling like I've been running.  Like a bit out of breath.  I take plavix which helps for a while but eventually the estrogen levels get too high and I have to lay off for a while.  I don't think I'm getting clots but think the estrogen make my blood more viscous.  Any thoughts?

I have read that the half-life of 17-beta estradiol is about 15 hours.  That may have been the information from my Climara patches - can't remember.  The patches provide constant dosing, so I never thought much about the half-life.

The clotting studies were largely based on experience with ethinyl estradiol.  Few people are prescribed that anymore.

Quote from: Amy1988 on December 07, 2013, 12:51:55 PM
I've read the half life of estrogen is like 30 or 35 hours.  If this is true then wouldn't taking estrogen every day build up to a very high level?  I use Oestrogel gel daily but after a few weeks I start getting leg aches in my right leg and a feeling like I've been running.  Like a bit out of breath.  I take plavix which helps for a while but eventually the estrogen levels get too high and I have to lay off for a while.  I don't think I'm getting clots but think the estrogen make my blood more viscous.  Any thoughts?

I started to get leg pains after my a week or two on estrogen.  That stopped after a while.  At the time, I was doing leg exercises and running on a treadmill frequently, but the aches felt different than muscle pain.  I didn't have any issues after the first month and everything is fine with me.  Still, I think you should always be cautious and make sure you are aware of any potential issues.  Blood clots should be detected as soon as possible.  The last thing you want is to find out that you have a clot when it's too late.  Good luck with everything and hope that it's nothing serious.   

Quote from: Joules on December 07, 2013, 01:39:10 PM
Keep in mind that any item with a slow decay, such as Estrogen, will eventually reach a steady state where incoming equals outgoing.  The effect of a slow decay simply cause a bit of "residence time" in Chemistry terms.  A better known example is that of Prozac(Fluoxetine), it has a very long decay time (half life) of 16 days.  Estrogen dosage regimens are designed to mimic the output of typical cis female ovaries.

So can you tell me what the half life is for estrogen? 

Quote from: Joules on December 07, 2013, 02:36:13 PM
A quick Google turned up results ranging from 13 to 72 hours, depending on the form, the administration method and individual metabolic factors as well as liver status.  Probably most typical is 16 to 36 hours.

Wow! That's a pretty wide range 16-36 hours.  I wish I knew what it was for me but it seems like its on the longer end of the range.

Quote from: learningtolive on December 07, 2013, 01:28:19 PM
I started to get leg pains after my a week or two on estrogen.  That stopped after a while.  At the time, I was doing leg exercises and running on a treadmill frequently, but the aches felt different than muscle pain.  I didn't have any issues after the first month and everything is fine with me.  Still, I think you should always be cautious and make sure you are aware of any potential issues.  Blood clots should be detected as soon as possible.  The last thing you want is to find out that you have a clot when it's too late.  Good luck with everything and hope that it's nothing serious.

One thing to consider is if you are on spirolactone at the same tome, as it is a potassium-sparing diuretic, you might be depleting sodium in your body, which also can cause muscle cramps.

See your doctor and get your levels measured.  Also, in general, the longer you take something, the better your body is at both dealing with the active (in this case estrogen) and the better your body is at metabolizing it.

Please, see your doctor.

Hugs,

Jen

So if you take injections of E every week or two, is it possible to ever have relatively steady and high enough levels of estrogen?

Quote from: Amy1988 on December 07, 2013, 12:51:55 PM
I've read the half life of estrogen is like 30 or 35 hours.  If this is true then wouldn't taking estrogen every day build up to a very high level?  I use Oestrogel gel daily but after a few weeks I start getting leg aches in my right leg and a feeling like I've been running.  Like a bit out of breath.  I take plavix which helps for a while but eventually the estrogen levels get too high and I have to lay off for a while.  I don't think I'm getting clots but think the estrogen make my blood more viscous.  Any thoughts?

As a lot of folks here know I had been self medicating at an earlier time which is not a wise thing to do, we need to have our kidney, liver functions and hormone levels checked periodically. I had a nasty case of DVT and wound up in the ER and was put on blood thinners for some time. I was having leg aches and woke up one morning with my left leg twice the size of the right one. It turned out that there was a big clot at the top of my thigh close to my crotch, but the leg problems had initially been in the lower extremity along with swelling of the ankle. Best to be under a doctor's care and direction and if you're not it's time to make that appointment and do it the right way.

Quote from: Joules on December 07, 2013, 08:02:13 PM
Injection is only one form of E administration, perhaps one of the lesser common at that.  As I understand it, the injectable form is oil-based and has a time release factor, so that it is actually a continuous delivery over the course of the time between injections.

Oh ok! Thanks!
I will be starting injections in a few weeks (ahh ), so I was curious.

Quote from: Shantel on December 07, 2013, 08:14:27 PM
As a lot of folks here know I had been self medicating at an earlier time which is not a wise thing to do, we need to have our kidney, liver functions and hormone levels checked periodically. I had a nasty case of DVT and wound up in the ER and was put on blood thinners for some time. I was having leg aches and woke up one morning with my left leg twice the size of the right one. It turned out that there was a big clot at the top of my thigh close to my crotch, but the leg problems had initially been in the lower extremity along with swelling of the ankle. Best to be under a doctor's care and direction and if you're not it's time to make that appointment and do it the right way.

May I ask what estrogen you were using?

Quote from: Amy1988 on December 08, 2013, 07:33:37 AM
May I ask what estrogen you were using?

There are a lot of restrictions about discussing hormones here but I will admit to have been using ethinyl estradiol at the time knowing full well that it was risky and especially for someone my age, but since I'm so GD intelligent I did it anyway. It is not generally recommended by trans savvy doctors for HRT because of the known clotting risks which are greater than other estrogen types. Once again though, self medicating with anything is risky business because there is no way of knowing what your hormone levels are and if in fact you are compromising your liver. Anything taken in pill form has to be first processed by the liver which when it is becoming overtaxed is where the clot begins to take life, then the hormones take a second pass through the liver one the way back out of the body. I'm under the care of an endocrinologist now and am on a patch which is just as effective with limited risks.

the half life of estrogen depends on the type and route of administration

Quote from: Shantel on December 08, 2013, 09:24:19 AM
There are a lot of restrictions about discussing hormones here but I will admit to have been using ethinyl estradiol at the time knowing full well that it was risky and especially for someone my age, but since I'm so GD intelligent I did it anyway. It is not generally recommended by trans savvy doctors for HRT because of the known clotting risks which are greater than other estrogen types. Once again though, self medicating with anything is risky business because there is no way of knowing what your hormone levels are and if in fact you are compromising your liver. Anything taken in pill form has to be first processed by the liver which when it is becoming overtaxed is where the clot begins to take life, then the hormones take a second pass through the liver one the way back out of the body. I'm under the care of an endocrinologist now and am on a patch which is just as effective with limited risks.

Thanks for sharing that.  I using Oestrogel which is applied to the skin.  Thing is I'm taking less than half the dose. 

Quote from: Amy1988 on December 08, 2013, 02:57:57 PM
Thanks for sharing that.  I using Oestrogel which is applied to the skin.  Thing is I'm taking less than half the dose.

Topical applications are usually pretty safe, still you should see a doc and get a baseline on your levels.

1. Shantel is correct.

2. Self medicating is a bad idea.

3. Half life will vary depending on the formulation. For example conjugated estrogens like premarin have a much longer half life...

4. I don't want to worry you, but the symptoms you describe DO need to be checked out, and relatively soon. They may be nothing, but if accompanied by any calor (heat) dolor (pain) or tumor (swelling) in the area they could be an early indication of thrombosis... which in fact is exactly caused by higher viscosity of blood.

5. Please don't ignore symptoms. I know its sometimes tricky to find a sympathetic doctor but actually its better than ending up with a serious problem. Go find someone and be safe please.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on December 08, 2013, 03:21:03 PM
1. Shantel is correct.

2. Self medicating is a bad idea.

3. Half life will vary depending on the formulation. For example conjugated estrogens like premarin have a much longer half life...

4. I don't want to worry you, but the symptoms you describe DO need to be checked out, and relatively soon. They may be nothing, but if accompanied by any calor (heat) dolor (pain) or tumor (swelling) in the area they could be an early indication of thrombosis... which in fact is exactly caused by higher viscosity of blood.

5. Please don't ignore symptoms. I know its sometimes tricky to find a sympathetic doctor but actually its better than ending up with a serious problem. Go find someone and be safe please.

I know it's a bad idea but I am also taking plavix to prevent clots.   I think the estrogen and plavix kind of nullify each other but the estrogen seems to sort of win out.  I did see my doctor a week ago but she is a PA and couldn't help me much.  She refered me to one of the doctors and I will see him in the next week hopefully. 

NO! 

You just can't do things like that. That is EVEN MORE dangerous. Unless you have been properly diagnosed as needing an anti-coagulant, taking one is quite likely to give you all sorts of serious problems up to and including internal bleeding, hemorrhage, liver failure, stroke and sudden death.

Taking a powerful anti-coagulant is not something to do lightly and without regard to your blood chemistry, and indeed liver function. My foster son is currently struggling with liver failure. Trust me you don't want to go there.

Please go to a sympathetic doctor as soon as possible tell them what you have been doing, and why, and get proper blood tests done. Even if they don't want to prescribe, at very least they should be prepared to do the bloodwork for you to make sure you don't kill yourself.

If you can't do this properly then please stop now, because you are potentially putting your life in jeopardy.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on December 09, 2013, 02:36:48 AM
NO! 

You just can't do things like that. That is EVEN MORE dangerous. Unless you have been properly diagnosed as needing an anti-coagulant, taking one is quite likely to give you all sorts of serious problems up to and including internal bleeding, hemorrhage, liver failure, stroke and sudden death.

Taking a powerful anti-coagulant is not something to do lightly and without regard to your blood chemistry, and indeed liver function. My foster son is currently struggling with liver failure. Trust me you don't want to go there.

Please go to a sympathetic doctor as soon as possible tell them what you have been doing, and why, and get proper blood tests done. Even if they don't want to prescribe, at very least they should be prepared to do the bloodwork for you to make sure you don't kill yourself.

If you can't do this properly then please stop now, because you are potentially putting your life in jeopardy.

Having watched the woman I love die of liver failure, I'll second the comment about not going there. It was painful and far from pleasant..

EDIT: Just checked Plavix in my MIMS.. Crap.. I'd be giving that up, like yesterday.. Like Doctorwho? suggested, get some medical help before you do yourself some damage..