Hi,

   I've noticed that we don't have the tension in our topics that the binaries do in some of their topics.  Even when we join in conversations that are mostly driven by binaries, we tend to not truly argue much.  I'm not saying we don't disagree on some things, but our disagreements are smooth.

   Are androgynes naturally non-conflictive, agreeable, polite, nonaggressive, or just mellow?

And don't give me any crap! (kidding)   


What do you think?

We are just very mellow people in that we get our point across without having to be agresssive about it.

I think because we're outside/in-between/on both sides of the binary, we are more able to clearly see and somewhat understand the binary. And I think that (being able to see and understand two sides of something) extends into every aspect of life. So it's not so much that we're not aggressive or non-confrontational, but we're naturally a bit more broad-minded than the average cisgendered person.

Yeah, I tend to see every situation from all sides.

Getting the opportunity to enter these discussions already with insight from multiple genders helps us to form grounded opinions. Blessed with natural balance even.

We're not so mellow that we don't have passion in our views, just we approach things unlike others trapped in social gender roles.

Marq and Mia
Balance of Opposites

Quote from: shawnael on July 26, 2007, 08:51:48 PM
I think because we're outside/in-between/on both sides of the binary, we are more able to clearly see and somewhat understand the binary.

Indeed. What's more, transsexuality is at the extreme end of the GID scale, so it seems natural that our TS siblings tend to be a bit more extreme in their opinions than us. We have mostly managed to relieve our gender-related internal tensions in a far less violent way.

  Nfr

The problem with the TS sections of the forum is that when you have a group who identify as being at one end of the spectrum, people who need validation are easily going to get into arguments about what is the 'most female' and why 'I'm more of a woman than you' (or vice versa for the F2Ms).  A lot of TSs  don't fall into that trap, but enough do for debates to turn nasty sometimes.

The middle ground has such a broad range of identities that people don't seem to feel the need to compete as much.  We're trying to be ourselves, not be a predefined gender. 

i generally reserve my hatred for inanimate objects

I dont want to read about a cookie cutter type life. Life is not exact, doesnt replicate, and even one event or experience can be interpreted differently by all those that are in that experience.

I am going to tell some one how it is for me. And I expect that the others are going to be different and tell me how it is for them.

Respecting their life and experience, I am going to listen, ask questions, and hear what the story is. I am going to ask what it means to them. Respecting individuals. I will probably learn something along the way.

Is there a place for competition and aggression? Absolutely. Its for a thing called a carreer. Or even sports.

As for gender identity, enough pain, hurt, confusion, fear, and loneliness exists already. Why add to it artificial pressure, selfish views, judgemental opinions, excluding clicks, and hurtful words?

I dont know if all androgynes have this ability innately. I have heard some experiences of other boards. One article I read about androgyny mentioned that one should not assume just because one is androgyne, that they have all "good" attributes of genders. In that there exists the possibility of one possessing the "worst" of genders. I am sure there are even criminal and murdering androgynes. So I would have to say that "this" group of androgynes possesses the cooperative and nonaggression in the members currently here. Though the potential and reality is probably not that universal.

I am not going to beat up on the other gender binary. There are many that are in those groups I respect, admire, care for, and feel for. Sure there are a few hostile ones, but that doesnt make the whole bunch hostile. I know all it would take is one or two hostile androgynes (which if the older members remember, we have had a few in the past. I wont name names, but I can think of two.) to create conflict.

I just hope and wish that they will make it through their current conflicts and arguements ok and with minimum damage, hurt feelings, and with friendships intact.

And hopefully we dont do too much pointing, because our turn could be around the corner.

I do think many of our currents members do have the mature, tolerant, respectful, peaceful approach to things. Many of us have been hurt or felt hurt by others. And some are sick of arguing, hate, and intolerance.

Hoping for the best for everyone.

KK

Hi,

   I should have said I'm not pointing a finger at anyone or any topic in specific.  I just noticed that sometimes I'm reading a thread all happy like and then suddenly, it seems to change in nature.  I've noticed we haven't had any fistfights here in our little corner and I was just speculating as to what the difference is.

  I mean absolutely no harm to anyone or to any group.  I also had to intention of intimating anything like "we're better because ...".

  I didn't realize there had been contentious androgynes here before.  If they were still here, I wouldn't have thought to bring this up.  I'm just working to break down our common attributes in my never relenting search for self truth.

  Remember, all we have is that manual which still hasn't gotten around to me.

  No finger pointing.  No accusations.  No disrespect.

Yes there are at least 2 androgynes banned from the site for personal attacking and malicious behavior, that I know of that caused many problems. I think our current group is pretty good though.

Its better to be prepared for more then be lead into a false sense of security. At the drop of the hat, the peace could be gone.

The group of androgynes on Susan's is reasonable.

I know for certain that this is not the case everywhere.

There is a mailing list I was on, briefly, which I will not name because I do not wish to point fingers. 

During the brief time I was on this list, there was a massive battle between male-bodied and female-bodied androgynes.  The males (I use the term here to mean sex and not gender) were claiming that because many of the females did not see breasts as an androgynous feature, they were not really androgynes, but instead were all ftm.  The males wished for the females to get out of their safe haven.  Meanwhile, the females were claiming that (as has happened here on occasion) standing to pee, among other things, was a non-androgynous trait and that the males just wanted to be women without any of the hardships that went with it.

People were leaving the mailing list over this, left, right and centre.  I left quietly because I did not fit there.  It actually left me doubting my own identity.

Quote from: Tay on July 27, 2007, 11:43:33 AM
The group of androgynes on Susan's is reasonable.

I know for certain that this is not the case everywhere.

There is a mailing list I was on, briefly, which I will not name because I do not wish to point fingers. 

During the brief time I was on this list, there was a massive battle between male-bodied and female-bodied androgynes.  The males (I use the term here to mean sex and not gender) were claiming that because many of the females did not see breasts as an androgynous feature, they were not really androgynes, but instead were all ftm.  The males wished for the females to get out of their safe haven.  Meanwhile, the females were claiming that (as has happened here on occasion) standing to pee, among other things, was a non-androgynous trait and that the males just wanted to be women without any of the hardships that went with it.

People were leaving the mailing list over this, left, right and centre.  I left quietly because I did not fit there.  It actually left me doubting my own identity.

I can see what you mean by hostile androgyne groups.

I agree androgynes don't usually seem aggressive

that's because you have never seen an androgyne marauding party. i mean when they come a-rampaging they even ring the doorbell twice in a row without stopping to wait for the person to answer.

Quote from: Rebis on July 27, 2007, 11:22:03 AM
I've noticed we haven't had any fistfights here in our little corner

That may be part of it: there aren't that many of us, and moreover there's a larger community within which we can consider ourselves a minority. Both may contribute to a tendency to be at least civil towards each other.

Then again, except for the couple of permanent flame bait topics the TS forums don't have too much fighting either. Tay's experiences show that we could have similar topics of contention; thankfully we happen to not have any for now.

  Nfr

Quote from: Rebis on July 27, 2007, 11:22:03 AM
I've noticed we haven't had any fistfights here in our little corner

Hey you!  Them's fighting words!  So what is it going to be, Tiddlywinks at 20 paces or a staring contest?  I would challenge you to a fistfight, but I am afraid I might break a nail, and we all know how tramatic that can be.

And shame on you for picking on those poor gender-challenged people..."Binaries" indeed!  They can't help it if they were born that way.  Sheesh, next thing we know, somebody will be starting a "Save the Binaries" charity, and we will have to find a new color for the ribbon.


OK...it's Friday and my sense of humor has been warped by too many meetings at work. 


I agree that we have a very great group of folks here in the androgyne corner.  I consider each and every one of you my friends and extended family, and am honored to be associated with you all.

As far as cooperation  and non-agression...I think our unique situation of being neither gender (or both) allows us to better understand what motivates some people, and with that understanding comes compassion and the ability to build bridges.  It also creates some very interesting comments, straight from left field, but right on the money.

I also agree that the fact that we are a minority in the TG world helps bring us closer together.  Not so much an Us-against-Them thing as a common bond that allows each of us to the freedom to be ourselves without comparing against others.

Hugs to all......Laurry

It seems that many of us here are in a process of exploration of what it means to be androgyne, listening to each others' journeys helps us learn more about who we are. I've always tried to see and every side of a discussion, for me that's more of a personality trait than specifically related to my androgyny.

zythyra

Quote from: zythyra on July 28, 2007, 10:07:41 PM
I've always tried to see and every side of a discussion, for me that's more of a personality trait than specifically related to my androgyny.

Me too. However, I think it is related; lately it has dawned on me that the way I view gender is in some ways very similar to the way I view some other 'binary' issues. It's not that my being androgyne makes me like this, but rather that gender is just one more thing where I can to some extent see both sides at once. So, yes, it is a personality trait, but it is largely because of this trait that I am somewhere between genders instead of struggling as a full MtF.

  Nfr