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Lesbianism, transexual rights, and feminism... What am I missing?

Started by Kiko, December 11, 2013, 03:24:45 PM

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Kiko

Firstly, I hope that no one here minds my posting on the forum here, but I had a couple of questions and wanted to seek some advice, if I may. And hopefully this is in the appropriate section.

I am not transexual, but try to keep myself educated on the struggles of civil rights movements, particularly those which deal with gender rights and personal identity since this is a topic that I vehemently defend. That said, it should be obvious that I am a feminist and gender equalist who has at least a bit of knowledge about the transexual rights movement, which I have always seen as one of the points of interest within feminism. The right to freely express a range of gender identity and not conform to prescribed ideas of manliness or femininity is a key point in the fight for gender rights, and since most of the feminists I associate with and am influenced by are equally concerned with the discrimination and aggression which transexuals face for expressing their personal gender identity, I assumed this was a point of general agreement within the movement.

I got roped into an argument while trying to defend a young transexual lesbian on Twitter, which has left that belief... Shaken. Now I am not completely ignorant to extremism within civil rights groups, I think there are at least a handful in every movement but in some it is fixated on more than others, but I was somewhat taken off guard by how many feminists and LGBT supporters were quick to very personally attack me for saying that a transwoman deserves the same respect right to safety as any other woman. Armed with such irrefutable logic as, 'If you have a penis then you're a man, and men rape women,' they attacked not only the young woman struggling with self-esteem issues and her own identity, but anyone who defended her. My own personal sexual kinks, which I discussed with another user, were brought to light, and even days later they continue to harass and spread the idea that by supporting that a transexual woman can be a lesbian that I am trying to push all lesbians to feeling sexually attracted to all transwomen. I believe one even said something to the effect that if I don't whore myself to a transwoman, that I am a bigot. The young woman, they went as far as to call a man, and claim they 'don't talk to men.'

Frankly, it disgusts me to see this kind of venom from people who claim to advocate for women's rights and sexual expression, but does raise some questions about how frequently the transexual community feels attacked or harassed by people who supposedly fight for equality. Is it common for feminists or LGBT supporters to harass people within the trans-community? What kind of discrimination, if any, have you personally encountered? And, since it doesn't seem these women are going to move on, what can be done to counter their sexist and bigoted attacks?
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Devlyn

Hi Kiko, welcome to Susan's Place! It's generally best to leave any hate you run into right where you find it. We have lots of blogs that we don't allow members to link to because they're nothing but pits of hate.

See you around the site, hugs, Devlyn
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ZoeM

What's the expression - let sleeping hateful self-righteous serpents lie?

There's a population of women out there who use feminism as an excuse to legitimize and institutionalize their own misandry. Just try to remember that they are their own sad little cabal of hate - the feminist equivalent of Westboro - and don't represent true, equality-and-justice feminism.

Welcome to the site, by the way - and I appreciate you attempting to defend this nameless young lady. Hugs and free coffee are in order.
Don't lose who you are along the path to who you want to be.








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Ltl89

Quote from: ZoeM on December 11, 2013, 04:23:45 PM
What's the expression - let sleeping hateful self-righteous serpents lie?

There's a population of women out there who use feminism as an excuse to legitimize and institutionalize their own misandry. Just try to remember that they are their own sad little cabal of hate - the feminist equivalent of Westboro - and don't represent true, equality-and-justice feminism.

Welcome to the site, by the way - and I appreciate you attempting to defend this nameless young lady. Hugs and free coffee are in order.

Couldn't have said it better. 
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Chloe

Quote from: Kiko on December 11, 2013, 03:24:45 PMIs it common for feminists or LGBT supporters to harass people within the trans-community?

Kiko while not a popular idea here always felt 'trans rights' is really more about a 'Man's Right' to choose which, of course by it's very nature, is something 'mainstream feminism' will always vehemently OPPOSE! In other words by identifying as 'MtF' I DIRECTLY OBJECT to most all manifestations of so-called 'cis feminity' as it currently exists today.

Being specifically, uniquely 'third gender' I feel the current purely 'imitative' trans community remains very confused on this historically based point and which is why it perpetually 'runs in circles' going next to nowhere mired in trivials discussion only. If you spend some time reading here I think you'll discover that all serious, contentious (as in 'politically unifying'?) trans topics are STRICTLY AVOIDED!
"But it's no use now," thought poor Alice, "to pretend be two people!
"Why, there's hardly enough of me left to make one respectable person!"
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Natkat

It's very annoying you have to deal with that.
Unfurtunatly theres many people who only show acceptence for there own space. Even within the GLBTQ theres gay people who do not suport transgender, or transgender who feel they have nothing to do with gay people or other kind of transgenders.

Haters gonna hate I don't think you can get rid of it 100% but I do belive its a shame the femenist cant see a bigger space. I have not have negative problems with femenist, I have many friends who are femenist and trans suportive and it works well for me. A knew a mtf who had problems with femist who didnt like her being lesbian and all that hate, I also knew some gender-queer people who had abit trouble to show up for a meeting about womens right, as the people where abit suspected of them, but as they showed up they where positive about it.
-
I dont really know any advice beside trying to ignore those people and only focus on those who matter.
If you have the option I think you should try look out for groups of more openminded femenist, But I dont know how important your current group is to you?

Maybe someone here is trans and a femenist who could advice you to somewhere abit less ignorant.



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Anna++

It's unfortunate that situation happened, but you did the right thing by defending the transwoman.  I hear there is a subset of radical feminists that exclude transwomen for the arguments you listed above, but fortunately not all feminists are like that.  One of my best friends is a die-hard feminist, and she's been a big sister to me ever since I came out to her.

If you can't educate the haters then it's probably best to ignore them.
Sometimes I blog things

Of course I'm sane.  When trees start talking to me, I don't talk back.



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MadelineB

Kiko, welcome to the Susan's family.
You might enjoy an excellent new book by feminist theorist and transgender activist Julia Serano. "Excluded: Making feminist and queer movements more inclusive". It will give you a good framework for understanding the intersections between transmisogyny and other forms of sexism-based marginalization. -Maddie
History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again.
~Maya Angelou

Personal Blog: Madeline's B-Hive
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